LOST Across The Sea

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Hi, and welcome to Sass and Sips. Today we are going to talk about season six, episode 15 of Lost Across the Sea. I'm Lisa, and I am sipping on Malbec today.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Ooh, you're fancy.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

A little bit, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

You're fancy. And I'm Agnes, and I'm sipping on mint tea with a little hoo-hoop in it. I'm like Lisa, I actually like tea when I'm not sick too.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

So no, thank you. I like alcohol when I'm not sick.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

I like well, this alcohol in it. And when it's hot, it hits your bloodstream quicker.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

All right, I'll I'll have what you're having hold the tea. Thanks. You want some warm sake? I actually.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Yes, I do. Yeah. I could go for some warm sake and some sushi right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

Okay, I'll have the sushi hold the sake. I'll have the sake hold the sushi. Hold the sushi.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Well, I'll eat your sushi too.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Okay, I'll drink your sake.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

No, don't do that. So, Lisa, are you gonna ask me about my hot takes? Yeah. See, I'm so prepared today.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

I feel I had more questions. And I was like, I okay, so I'm at this point where I'm like, I'm following it. I get it, I got it, you know. And I had so many questions, but I don't know what the questions are. I'm just like, I, but uh how, but I get it, but I don't get it, but I do get it. Okay. You know what I mean? It's just one of those moments, like the whole ad, like, okay, so the first at the beginning, doing like the delivery, and I recognized the area.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

I already knew that Allison Janie was going to be like one of the like that was gonna be Eve.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

And by the middle because because of like of the area, because of like that's where they found the Adam and E bodies.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Oh, okay. So I'm like, okay, so she's gonna be Eve. I knew that she's gonna be Eve, and by the middle, I had a feeling that the unnamed twin, poor kid, they never gave me one name, um, uh, was going to be Adam. I don't know why, but I'm like, okay, there's gonna be Adam. But I didn't know how it's gonna happen. So I'm like, okay, I'm so smart, but then I'm like, but wait, if he's dead, how is he not dead? So but his body is dead, but his soul is still there as the man in black slash lock 2.0. And I just had so many more questions, and I don't know what the questions are, and I'm just confusing. And I want to know how does she how was she able to do these things to make them not hurt them each other? Well, you can't kill them. And then, like, who is she? How does she become part of the island? And what magic was she saying over the wine? And oh, and I feel like for her to like cover the well and like kill the people, she must have been a smoke monster too, in some kind of way, and then like who does that but a smoke monster? So, yeah, that's that. Good night. I'm done. That's what happened. That's how my brain was working. Okay, Lisa says she quits now.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

She's where was where was all this intrigue five seasons ago?

SPEAKER_01 4:00

The show sucked five seasons ago.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

Oh, I hear the hate mail coming in. Hold on. Many, many, many, many, many, many years before the crash of flight A15. A woman named Claudia surfaces from the ocean. She is washed ashore, and you can see that she is pregnant. Like very pregnant.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

Just a little bit. Just a little pregnant.

SPEAKER_00 4:34

Yeah, she's just a little bit very pregnant. The beach has uh shipwreck debris all over it. She makes her way inland, and as she drinks from a stream, she sees a woman reflected in the water. The woman takes Claudia to her camp, feeds her, treats her injuries, and then they have a conversation. Actually, the conversation is in Latin, and she says that she is alone and like Claudia, she arrived here by accident. Claudia wants to ask like 40,000 more questions, but the woman tells her every question you ask is just gonna lead to another. So, like, shut the fuck up. And you should just be able to do that.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

That's how it usually works. But that's how lost is. You have one question that leads you to 600.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

Mm-hmm. Talk about gaslighting the watcher, huh?

SPEAKER_01 5:29

Seriously.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

Claudia wants to look for the survivors from her boat, but the woman is like, nope. If there are any survivors, I'll go find them. And just then, Claudia goes into labor. The woman acts, the woman delivers her babies. Well, hold on. The woman delivers her baby, a little boy, and Claudia's like, his name is Jacob. And then another kid is born. Another boy. Claudia says she only picked one name. And when she says, Hey, could I uh see my babies? The lady says, I'm sorry, and kills the bitch. Thirteen years later, we see Jacob and the boy in black. They're playing some little game on the beach, one light, one dark, same story. Six seasons later.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Where's the enthusiasm that you have from the first season? That was a low blow.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

Oh my god. Um you're proud of me, though.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

Come on, that was a good one.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

That was good. He explains that he found the game and he just happens to know how to play. I mean, but isn't that like a typical thing of kids? I already know. Like, I know they they they know quantum physics if you fucking ask them. But then when it's time to do their homework, they're like, I don't know. Did you play the kids? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

Okay, so I took it as more of just like kids and imagination and they just right, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

I know that's what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

As opposed to okay, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

They know how everything works. I mean, you know, everything they know, and if they don't know that they'll fake it, that's fine. But that's what I'm saying. Like, you can ask them how quantum physics work and they'll come up with some fucking story to tell you.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

It sounds fucking good. I'm like, I can't argue with that.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

Oh, yeah. And then, but then when you're like, hey, did you do your homework? No, I didn't understand that I couldn't do it.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

Did you brush your cheek? You're right, because I just had I don't know. I've just had a flashback of Axel, but he's just not four. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

Yeah, like they don't they only don't know stuff when they don't want to.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

How did your brother why is your brother crying? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

He did it to himself. And and and every parent knows the two extra people that live in your house. Somebody and nobody. Somebody and nobody. Somebody did it, but nobody knows who.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

Oh and their uncle, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

They play, but only actually the boy in black wants to play, but only if Jacob doesn't tell their mother because he thinks that she'll take the game away. But later, basically, Jacob runs to tell his mother about what he saw because he's a fucking little narc. Um even though he's like, no, I don't know. Don't you think he was manipulated? Of course. I mean, he's a kid. Some level, okay. No, no, of course. The mom is working at her loom, and Jacob is like, yeah, uh, we were just hanging out. Um, yeah, no, that's the story.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

Yeah, that's yeah, you'd think, but on, but back to you what you said, the whole knock thing. You'd think he would have had a better like cover story.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

I know. What do you fucking do every day? You you couldn't think of that? What did you do yesterday in all fucking 13 years of your life? It's been the same thing, I imagine.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

Not much deviation.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

Yeah. So, but then it's like, yeah, yeah, he found a game. Okay. The mother goes to visit the boy, and she says, you know, she's like, Yeah, he he told you, didn't he? And and she says, Yeah, of course. He doesn't know how to lie. But she says that he is special and she left the game for him. He says he thought it might have come from somewhere else across the sea. She says, There is nowhere else. The island is all there is. When the boy asks where he came from, mother says they came from her and she came from her mother, but that lady's dead. And then the boy's like, Well, what's dead? Like, I don't know if we're in a bad episode. Yeah.

unknown 9:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

She says there's nothing nothing that he'll have to worry about. But like, it's like, what's dead? I got like Ralph Wiggum vibes. And then it's like, all this, like, the island is is all there is. It's like cult shit. It's like she should be giving those two little kids red hats.

unknown 10:08

She said that.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

This is all there is. There is nowhere else. Okay, where's my red hat? Um, the boys, you see the boys later chasing a boar, but they're surprised because it's killed by three hunters. Oh no. The boys run home and demand an explanation as to who these people are. The fuck you're demanding shit from her. She should have slapped you, stupid ass. Um but I but I thought I got that they were more concerned.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

Like, oh my god. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, oh my god, we saw people. Oh no. Save us, mom. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

Yeah, they want to know who the people are, and she says that those men are not like them because we are here for a reason. The boy in black insists on knowing what the reason is. So she blindfolds them and leads them to the jungle and to a magical waterfall. She tells them that other people are dangerous because they come, they fight, they destroy, they corrupt, and it always ends the same. She says she's made it so that they can never hurt each other. She tells them that this, the cave with the light, is the reason that they are on the island. She says they must never enter the cave. And the boy in black says it's beautiful, and she says, A little bit of light, a little bit of the same light that's in the cave is inside every man, but that people will always want more. She says that while other people can't take the light, they may try, and if the light goes out here, it goes out everywhere. Mother has protected the place, but when she no longer can, it will have to be one of the boys who protects it. Alright, I have a question. As a parent, if you were mother living on an island with two boys and you were truly scared of the other people who were there, because she tells them that she knows that they were there. So if you were so scared of those other people and your two little kids running around, wouldn't you want to warn them instead of just being like, okay, goodbye, go play.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

Well, you have to assume that she's actually afraid of them. But that's you know what I mean. I don't think she's yeah, she's not really afraid of them. She's so it just I don't I I didn't that's a thought that I didn't think about thinking about, so I don't have an answer. That's the thought that I didn't think about thinking about.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

I think I think you you are really onto something with that that hot alcohol hits your system faster. Because even I'm like, what the fuck did you just say?

SPEAKER_01 13:39

To be fair, that's just the way my brain doesn't work. So there's that not much hope for me.

SPEAKER_00 13:49

Alright, some sometime later, the boys are in the jungle playing the game, and he he said, Whatever Jacob, whatever move Jacob was trying to make, the boy in black says you can't because it's against the rules. And he's like, Jacob is like, you made up the rules. And he's like, Yeah, and when you make up your game, you can make the rules.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

But absolutely, he's not wrong. I you know.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

Yeah. But just then he notices the appearance of Claudia a little bit behind them. Jacob doesn't see her though, and the boy in black excuses himself to go follow her. She says that Jacob cannot see her because she is dead. She takes him to a place on the other side of the island and shows him a settlement. She says the people came from across the sea thirteen years ago. She tells him that she is his real mother and Jacob's mother too, and that he comes from across the sea. The boy in black wakes Jacob up in the middle of the night and urges him to come with him to join the people of the village. He tries to explain to Jacob that the people in the village are their people and that mother lies about everything, that she doesn't love them, and that she's not even our real mother. Jacob flies into a rage and punches the boy in black repeatedly in the face. Mother separates them as Jacob cries out that his brother is leaving and going to the other people. The boy in black says he's going to go home across the sea and that she killed his real mother and that they don't belong here. He pleads with Jacob to come with him, but Jacob chooses to stay with mother. Mother tells the boy in black that whatever he has been told, he will never be able to leave the island. He says that one day he will prove that that is not true. Jacob joins Mother on the beach. She admits to killing his real mother and explains that had she lived, she would have taken the boys back to the bad people and that she needed Jacob to stay good. Jacob asks why she loves his brother more, and she says that she loved each of them in different ways. Jacob agrees to stay with her for now. Thirty years later thirty years later Jacob has finished a piece of cloth on the loom, taken after his mother's footsteps. Mother claims tiredness as she grinds her herbs. Jacob goes to the other side of the island and observes his brother working on a project with the other people. He goes down to the man in black and they talk over a game of Senate. I guess that's what the game is called. The man in black tells Jacob that mother may be insane, but she is right about his people being bad. He says they're greedy, manipulative, untrustworthy, and selfish. He explains he stays with them as a means to an end. That is to leave. The man in black reveals to Jacob that he has found a way off the island. He throws a dagger wildly and it is attracted to and adheres to the stone blocks of a well. He talks about the way the metal behaves strangely at certain sites around the island, and this has suggested a way off the island. The man in black asks Jacob to join him, but Jacob says that the island is his home and he doesn't want to leave. The man in black says this is not your home. So Jacob runs and tells his mother what his brother did yet again. He says that he found a way to leave. So mother goes to see him and she sees that they have dug a well. After they leave, she goes into the well and she finds him working. The man in black welcomes her coolly and complains how he was how he has searched the island and has not once come close to finding the cave. He tells her that he then thought about another way to get the light. He says the people here have some very interesting ideas about what to do with the light. She gives a look of alarm at the knowledge these people now have. He shows her that he has found a way to dig into the light that exists beneath the parts of the island. He pulls out a stone, allowing the light to stream into the cavern. He also shows her a wheel that he plans to install, and we've seen this before. It's interesting to know that his plan would have worked. Mm-hmm. Mother asks how he knows these things, and with hatred and sarcasm he replies that he knows all of this because he is special. In the special Mother feigns a goodbye hug, and while saying that she is sorry, she fucking knocks his head into the wall. I'm so sorry, crack. She then returns to Jacob and takes him to the glowing cave. She tells Jacob that he is going to protect it now. Jacob asks what is inside the cave, and mother says life, death, rebirth it's the source, the heart of the island. She asks him to promise that he will never go down there because to do so would be much worse than dying. She pours some wine into a silver cup, making an incantation as she does so. She says that in drinking the wine he accepts the responsibility of protecting this place for as long as he can, and then to find a replacement. He is unwilling and is saddened by becoming her successor by default, as she has always favored his brother. She says she was wrong and that it should have been Jacob all along. He drinks, and she tells him, Now you and I are the same. Back by the well, the man in black wakes up. You guess he wasn't dead after all. His well his well is wrecked and filled in, and he can see smoke in the distance. He finds the village destroyed and all his people dead. Examining the rubble, he finds and takes his Senate game now charred from the fire. As Jacob and Mother are returning home, Jacob says a storm is coming. She agrees and sends him off for firewood. She says to be careful, but does not reply when he says he'll see her back home. At the camp, the loom is wrecked and the camp is in disarray. She finds the game she had left for the boy thirty years ago laying on the ground. As she raises the black playing piece, she is run through from behind with a dagger by the man in black. With tears in his eyes, he addresses her as mother and asks why she wouldn't let him leave. As she dies, she says because I love you. Thank you. Why do you think she said thank you?

SPEAKER_01 21:32

I think she was dying anyway, because when Jacob asks her, no, what's wrong? She's like, I'm just tired. So I think she was on her last leg anyway.

SPEAKER_00 21:43

Okay. I always thought it was a different reason.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Oh, what's your reason?

SPEAKER_00 21:47

I figured it was because she anticipated the chain of events.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

But a combination of both yeah. Because the fact right because storms coming.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

Yeah, but also Yeah, but also because like when you just said she anticipated it, like I didn't think much about like her comment before, like, oh, I'm tired, and so I think she was kind of desperate, like from there. Like she just kind of wanted to be taken out of her misery.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

Like she was I think she knew the time was coming, and she was just desperate to get everything situated. And yeah, so when yeah, then And there's the knowledge about how to get off the island. She was just like, oh fuck. Like time has run out. You know.

SPEAKER_00 22:32

Jacob returns and sees what his brother has done and attacks him like he did when he was a kid. I wonder how many times they did this, you know, throughout the years.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Like I feel like mother had- I don't know how many times me and my brother did it. I can't even imagine.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

Like I picture like the old cartoons, just a tumble, you know, of smoke and like like peanuts kind of thing, like when they're just tumbling and it's clouds. He drags his brother oh, but now mom isn't here to, you know, save you. So he drags his brother through the jungle, and the man in black reminds Jacob, you can't kill me. Jacob replies that he has no intention of killing him. He brings him to the glowing cave and throws him down the stream and into the cave. The man in black hits his head on a rock and goes limp. And then he's sucked in. Moments later, the smoke monster bursts from the cave and disappears into the jungle. Jacob washes himself at the stream and sees his brother's broken body draped over branches nearby. He hugs him tearfully and then carries his body back home. At the cave he finds the two jewels, places them in a pouch, and then lays mother and the man in black's body side by side with the pouch in the man in black's hand. And then we have intermittent flashbacks of like season one, Jackie in the cave, discovering the corpses as well as the stones, and John Locke calls them our very own Adam and Eve. So all the way back then, look, we got an answer.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

We got an answer.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

I mean, six season six, but you got one.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

I got an answer.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

And now it raises like 14 more questions.

SPEAKER_01 24:33

14, one, yeah, 14 billion questions that I don't know what the questions are. I know I have questions, but I don't know what they are. That's a horrible feeling. Painful.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

Let's do trivia. Trivia, yeah, trivia, yeah, trivia, yeah. Why do you think? I mean, okay, it's kind of it's not trivia, but like I just thought of it. Why do you think that he was never given a name? Or do you think he had a name and we just never knew it?

SPEAKER_01 25:01

I mean, I think he obviously I think he has a name. Um okay, so you know um how we're not supposed like God's true name, we're not supposed to know it.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

And like that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

Right. I think that's kind of like where I'm I think it's uh I think it's on par with that.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

Claudia is the third woman that we know of who came to the island pregnant and near term, delivered her baby, and then had the baby taken and raised by another. The others were Claire and Danielle.

SPEAKER_01 25:36

This island is just pure evil.

SPEAKER_00 25:38

This episode is set in the earliest time of the series. So by this it estimates it goes back about two millennia and has the largest passage of time between scenes. A likely translation of the Latin incantation mother makes when offering the wine to Jacob at his initiation is for we do not accept this just as a common drink, but that as if that he should be one with me. And I am not going to attempt the Latin version.

SPEAKER_01 26:17

So very similar to Communion.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

This is the only episode in the show's run that no main cast member appear in original footage. This is the ninth episode to take place entirely on the island. This is the third of only three episodes of the series not to have a secondary storyline. Oh. Titus Wulliver, who plays The Man in Black, broke two of his toes while filming the scene where Jacob is forcefully taking him to the heart of the island. That's in dedication.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Dedication. I concur. Or bad luck.

SPEAKER_00 27:02

He said, You're not leaving. I'll break your toes if I have to. Told you you weren't going anywhere. As we saw when the babies were born, one was in a light blanket and the other one was in a dark blanket. Very original. Can you imagine? Like today, you have a baby and they hand you the paperwork for the birth certificate, and you're like, um, just put in black. In black. Yeah, because you know, now it'll be a baby, later it'll be a boy, later it'll be a teenager, then even later, hopefully it'll be a man. So, like, we just we need to leave like that blank, but the name is in black. We'll just fill in the adjective, noun, whatever the hold on. What what is noun? The noun.

SPEAKER_01 28:11

I need new friends.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

Oh I needed a second to think about it. I got the right answer though, right?

SPEAKER_01 28:24

You did, and you are such a Lisa, so you're your own adjective. I think we need to call the English teacher. Angelique, pick up the phone. They call a friend.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

So what do you think is down that cave?

SPEAKER_01 28:48

It's the it's the the the the you know life, death, rebirth.

SPEAKER_00 28:59

Okay, I see your powers of memorization are good.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

See if pay attention. I don't know, like the elixir, like I don't know. I don't know, the proverbial, like I don't know, like the island is like the tree of knowledge, and then that's just like the well of information. I don't know. It's just stuff, it's magical and spiritual, and yeah, and it has no name. Just like the man in black. And trying to remember like my Bible studies that I never went to. Um because I'm heathen. I don't know. I don't know. What do you think is down there? What do you think it is?

SPEAKER_00 29:47

That's irrelevant, what I think.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

No, it's not, unless there's an answer. Oh, there's an answer. Never mind then. Fine.

SPEAKER_00 29:55

Or maybe it's not, and I just want you to think it is. I hate you. No, no, but what if the man in black he killed? I mean, yeah, she wasn't actually his mother, but like if you're if you want to go on this religious thing, because I mean the the show has a lot of religious tones. So murder is a mortal sin. So maybe that's why he was doomed to be the smoke monster.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

Maybe. Or maybe it's just a conversion camp down there. You go in as a person, you come out as a monster. She said conversion camp. It converts you from one form to another. Obviously, that's all I meant. Uh we know conversion campaigns.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

Maybe I forgot what I was gonna say. Maybe in her own twisted way, he was really stuck on the island. It was really, it was his job to protect the island, you know, and that in her and in this twisted way, this twisted sense of fate, he kind of does protect the island.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

So since it was his fate, then we go to the fate versus free will. So since it was his fate, that's why he can't leave.

SPEAKER_01 31:29

They both, like, I think in conjunction, it I don't know, it was fate or whatever, but she or she made it so. But in conjunction, both Jacob and the men in black both in their own way protect the island. Smoke monster killing people and shit. You know, Jacob, you know, so I think they work to they're working together unbeknownst to them both.

SPEAKER_00 31:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

Okay, that's enough and sadly for the day.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

Cultural references. Senate, the man in black finds a board and pieces of this old Egyptian game on the beach and claims to know how to play it without ever having played it before. Senate may be the old I don't know if I'm saying that right, but popcorn. Um Senate may be the oldest board game in the world. They were often placed in the grave for the dangerous journey through the afterlife. Senate is also known as the game of passing and is said to represent the souls of the dead moving through the netherworld. Interesting. Also, hmm? I said it very interesting. Also, Stephen King, in the final official Lost Podcast dated 514-10, Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof confirm that the turtle scene in this episode was partially a reference to the works of Stephen King. Turtles are prominent in King's The Dark Tower series, such a good series, as well as in his novel. But the Dark Tower series and this show have a common vibe. So if you haven't read the Dark Tower series, you should do it.

SPEAKER_01 33:25

So bossy. I like that. Ha, come here.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

The boy in black was told by his adopted mother that he is special. Can you think of another adopted boy that was told he is special and who also then turned into a smoke monster? Locke. Remember as a kid, he was adopted. And as a kid. Don't call them special. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 34:18

Well, don't have to worry about that.

SPEAKER_00 34:24

In this episode, the man in black seems to subscribe to a scientific worldview, associating the men who want to use technology to harness the power of the heart. Jacob faithfully follows his mother's teachings. This makes the man in black the man of science and Jacob the man of faith. However, the man in black eventually assumes the form of John Locke, the man of faith, with Jack, formerly the man of science, replacing Jacob.

SPEAKER_01 35:00

Interesting. Now I have a very controversial take on science versus religion. I think you need both. I think both of them go hand in hand. For the religious, yet I feel like God allowed man the gift of science for a reason. And for the science, and for the man of science, being able to explain the unexplainable in itself is kind of a gift in itself. I'm trying to say it, but it's not coming out right. I think it's like is I don't think it's either or. I think it's both. Why can't it be both? Why can't it be science and spiritual?

SPEAKER_00 35:52

Well, I think I think I'm almost in agreement with you. I understand why people hold on to religion. I get that. I'm like, I'm looking at it through my psych degree because it's so much easier and sometimes healthier for us as people that when there are unknown things or things beyond our control, for us to ascribe it to a higher being to make sense out of it as opposed to the chaos that it would feel if there was just no reason. Because it's like closure. It's like having closure for things that you can't have closure on. So I I understand how religion is and and I grew up in the church. I don't like I don't begrud people religion. I just the older I get, the less it calls me. You know, I just but um but I have a scientific degree, so it's hard for me to be like, well, science is cool, but like, have you heard about religion? It's like religion is cool, but have you heard about science? Science is tangible, and I like tangible. So while I can say, yeah, there might be a God up there, could be, probably, which god, all of them. I don't know. I don't care. They're all probably really great. Like we'd go to a dinner party and meet all of them. What would you like me to bring?

SPEAKER_01 37:50

I concur.

SPEAKER_00 37:53

But I I also think that it for me it becomes a problem because sometimes people lean too heavily on religion at the cost of science, of things that are yes, and I know hypothesis can never be proven, only disproven. I know, don't at me. But but the things that we can prove, the things that are tangible, the things that we can explain, sometimes have to, to me, have to hold greater significance than a deity that only exists in legend. Don't at me, please.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

No, I think you pretty much said exactly what I was. You just had you exactly just said what I felt. I just couldn't get into words. Okay. I figure I think they both can coexist peacefully. You it's like I say, it's not an either or or for like the extremists on either end. Most people feel both. For example, why can't okay? So you have people who are let's say spiritual and feel things deeply. Your empath, your your your your whatever. Um, so some people might say that's just a spiritual thing. Some, but why can't I but it's also scientifically explained through genetics and amino acids and whatever. Whatever the case may be. I'm just making up stuff now. Uh I had a point to this and I don't remember it. But your spiritual associations, your feelings, are still spiritual, but they also have they may have a scientific reasoning behind it. I don't know. I don't know. I think it's I don't know. I just grudge anyone.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

I think that my point I think that just like many other things, the beauty is in the diversity.

SPEAKER_01 40:00

Sometimes not having an answer is an answer.

SPEAKER_00 40:03

I think that every single one of us can believe in a different god or in a different religion, but I think that most religions they're both valid, rooted like morality and goodness. And I think at the end of the day, really, like that's all you need. And while I don't feel the need to tell anyone else how to live or what thoughts to ascribe to or what to believe in, like that's where that's where my affection for religion kind of stops. Because while I believe in your right to have religion, I don't believe in the in your right to use your religion to tell me what to do. And I think that that's where we are and how we've gotten to that's the people problem.

SPEAKER_01 40:46

That's not a religion. That's that's a people problem. And I hate people very peoply. There's too people out there. It's too very too.

SPEAKER_00 40:55

But um, alright. That's that's that. Just be good people.

unknown 41:01

That's it.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

But not too people-y while you're being good, okay?

SPEAKER_00 41:04

Seriously, like what would Jesus do? I don't know. What would Jesus do? Probably not that. But anyway. Jesus said, Let me see your green card. Could you imagine? The man in black shreds the tapestry mother was weaving with Jacob. But the smoke monster does not harm Jacob's tapestry while rampaging in the statue's plinth. The man in black rejected his mother and called her a liar, but later came to believe the same way as her about people coming to the island. Similar to Ben, the man in black talks to his dead mother, whom he never met, leading him astray from his people. Before we wrap up, I know you say you had a lot of questions.

SPEAKER_01 41:57

I don't know what the questions are, though.

SPEAKER_00 42:00

Well, it's weird. We've got a new character, mother.

SPEAKER_01 42:04

Allison Janey, yes. And I keep calling her that. Or CJ Craig, I keep calling her that.

SPEAKER_00 42:11

So I want you to talk to me about her. Like, how did she get there? Why does she speak Latin? Why is it her job to protect the idea of the Those are my questions that I have.

SPEAKER_01 42:21

You remember my ramblings with my hot takes? I'm like, I don't understand any of this. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 42:26

Okay, but now like after kind of talking, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:31

No, I don't know. Well, at one point, didn't everyone speak Latin? And what some time in history? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 42:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 42:39

Sometime in BC. I don't know. I feel like Latin was one of like the common languages. So there's that.

SPEAKER_00 42:44

Um language of the enlightened or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 42:48

Something like that. Leonardo DiCaprio. I mean Leonardo da Vinci. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

I'm sure that's what he's thinking.

SPEAKER_01 42:59

He is enlightened. Um, no. Um, what was the other stuff? I don't know. I don't know where she came from. I don't know. That was my question. Definitely aliens. Just aliens? Okay. I don't. That was my same question. I feel like that maybe she was just poof, she was there. Because she never aged. The boys aged slowly, if at all. And I feel like she was just poof, a magical entity.

SPEAKER_00 43:31

That's a good point.

SPEAKER_01 43:32

And what was mother's name? Was it Mary? I feel like, like, I feel like mother.

SPEAKER_00 43:39

We weren't given a name.

SPEAKER_01 43:41

Just you know what? I kind of feel slighted by that. Because as mothers, we don't have our own personalities. We're just mother. So I kind of feel you on that, Alice and Janie. Like, I feel like she was just like you, you don't have a personality anymore. You're no longer Lisa. I'm no longer Agnes. We're just mother. And we just happen to, we yeah. So not calling her by her, not her not having a name is very telling. We're just mother. Even though she kind of just like, you know, kidnapped the kids and killed their mama.

SPEAKER_00 44:13

But basically, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:14

I mean, you know.

SPEAKER_00 44:18

Well, I guess the island police department was busy that day. I'm uh

SPEAKER_01 44:25

Oh man. Yeah, they were too easy protecting the light. Um yeah, I don't have any I don't have any answers. I don't have any thoughts on it. I don't even have I don't even have a solid question. So you know I have a thought. I don't have an answer or opinion. Shit, Lisa, don't you know who I am? Catch me in about an episode two, then I have all these like uh moments.

SPEAKER_00 44:56

Okay, but I have to tell you something about the next episode.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

Tell me, Lisa.

SPEAKER_00 45:02

Next episode is called What They Died For. Season six, episode 16. But you know what it is? The penultimate episode of the series.

SPEAKER_01 45:15

I know. You're gonna cry. I might die for. So does that mean more people are dying? Or did uh I think more people are gonna die. They all died. Huh?

SPEAKER_00 45:26

I'm not gonna answer you.

SPEAKER_01 45:27

I think they all died. They all died.

SPEAKER_00 45:29

Okay. That's I guess it's prediction. They all died.

SPEAKER_01 45:33

They just die. There's this death. Either someone else dies, or they explain what they died for. The people who've already died. Like the people who've already been deaded, who've been unalived. Um, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 45:56

I have you don't have to know.

SPEAKER_01 45:58

I know nothing. Okay, which is part of the course.

SPEAKER_00 46:02

Okay, dokie.

SPEAKER_01 46:03

And everyone who listens is like, when does she know shit? So, you know.

SPEAKER_00 46:08

I don't know. Shit about fuck. I don't know. Me either.

SPEAKER_01 46:19

People are questioning why is Agnes even on this show? Because either she doesn't know or she pulls something out of her ass that happens to be true. That's why I'm on the show. That's my superpower.

SPEAKER_00 46:37

Do you have anything else before we go? Okay. All right. Well, until next time, drink responsibly. Don't drink and drive. Text us and oh, you know what? I want to know. What you think Agnes is gonna think about the finale. Since it's always like, oh, I hated the way it ends. Oh no, I got it. I understood it. I liked it. Do you think she's gonna like it? Do you think she's gonna hate it? Do you think she's gonna understand it?

SPEAKER_01 47:10

Hated it. She snaps up in a circle. If you know, you know.

SPEAKER_00 47:18

Yeah. Most of our lexicon is like 90s television. Uh yeah, don't drink and drive. I said that. And until next time, I'm Lisa.

SPEAKER_01 47:30

And I'm Agnes.

SPEAKER_00 47:32

We're out of here.

SPEAKER_01 47:33

See you later. Bye.