LOST Best Character ft. Debatable podcast

SPEAKER_06 0:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 0:05

Hi and welcome to this special episode of Sassin Sips. I am joined by I screwed that up already. I'm so not used to having addicts with me. All right. Take two. Hi, and welcome to this special episode of Sassin Sips. I am one of your hosts, Lisa, and tonight I'm joined by my friends or some of them over at Debatable Podcast. Uh, why don't you guys introduce yourself, please?

SPEAKER_02 0:34

I'm Hi-Fi Mike, and I'm late night Keith.

SPEAKER_07 0:38

So thank you guys for being here and uh joining me for this episode.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

Absolutely. Thanks for having us.

SPEAKER_07 0:45

Sure, of course. So, as is customary, we drink while we podcast, and tonight I'm having a little slushy sangria. How about you guys?

SPEAKER_02 0:55

I am drinking tequila.

SPEAKER_07 0:58

Oh, I almost drank tequila tonight.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

I just had a birthday, and I don't know if you can see behind me, but all this whole shelf is full of tequila bottles.

SPEAKER_07 1:08

Oh, none of this.

SPEAKER_02 1:09

So I have uh uh I'm turning a habit into a fun time.

SPEAKER_07 1:15

Okay, all right. Um, when was your birthday?

SPEAKER_02 1:18

Uh the 17th.

SPEAKER_07 1:20

Oh, mine was the 22nd.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

Nice, happy birthday.

SPEAKER_07 1:22

Same to you, happy birthday.

SPEAKER_05 1:24

Thank you.

SPEAKER_07 1:24

How about you, Mike?

SPEAKER_05 1:26

I had a birthday in March.

SPEAKER_07 1:28

Well, happy birthday.

SPEAKER_05 1:30

Um, I'm drinking platform beer, uh, it's local brewery. I believe it is uh Orchard Yammy. It's an L with a sweet potato and natural flavors, sweet caramel, apple, and fall spice.

SPEAKER_07 1:45

Sounds interesting.

SPEAKER_05 1:46

Yeah, it just tastes like beer. I'll be honest, it just tastes like beer. It it you would think it had more of a flavor, but they all for some reason, unless it's a sour, they seem to all taste the same.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

You know, I've kind of speaking of sour beer, I've kind of soured on beer um since my birthday. I drank nothing. Well, I just drank shots and water, and I've kind of decided that I'm just gonna drink liquor and not beer, and we'll see how it goes.

SPEAKER_05 2:16

I like rum, but I like beer. Beers beer's great, man. I because I don't really care if I'm getting drunk either. I just like the taste of it at this, like really when it comes down to it. So I'm a beer girl, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 2:29

Yeah, but I try not to drink it too much while podcasting because then I get the burps. So you know, I try, I try.

SPEAKER_05 2:38

You could be listened to debatable. We've had way more than the burps.

SPEAKER_07 2:42

I know, but you know, I'm not saying I never drink it, and and Agnes encourages me, you know, like when I have a really nice burp, she she cheers you on, she cheers me on, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

As a good co-host show.

SPEAKER_07 3:00

Do that off air.

SPEAKER_05 3:03

Where's your mic?

SPEAKER_07 3:06

Yeah, but um tonight we are going to um take a page out of your guys' podcast because your show is so fun. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 3:15

Um appreciate that.

SPEAKER_07 3:17

Yeah, no, no, no. Um I'm so serious though. Um, and so what we're gonna do is we are going to debate the best lost characters, and so Mike was generous enough to uh work the bracket, and we are each going to put in our picks for the best lost character, and we're gonna go around and uh see which ones make it.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

Are we doing 16?

SPEAKER_05 3:47

Um I you we usually do 16, but we can do 16. We could do 32.

SPEAKER_07 3:56

We can do 16. There's like a a hundred characters on the show. We can find 16. Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_05 4:03

Oh, yeah, for sure. It's just finding 16 that I like because I'm looking at this list and dude.

SPEAKER_02 4:12

There were some of the things.

SPEAKER_05 4:13

I'm just gonna put it on front. I'm just gonna put it on front street. I I hate Sun. Uh absolutely hate Sun.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

You monster.

SPEAKER_05 4:22

No, she's the worst. She is the worst character. If we're debating the worst character, she would be the worst.

SPEAKER_02 4:27

I don't think so. I don't think so.

SPEAKER_07 4:31

I I don't think so, but when when I had to make a list of five, she did not make my list. I'll say it that way.

SPEAKER_05 4:40

She's a liar, she's a manipulator.

SPEAKER_07 4:43

She had, I mean, she came far though.

SPEAKER_05 4:46

Everything she oh, I have you've you've what you've already watched it, right? I know you're you guys are watching it on your show, right? Is that how it is?

SPEAKER_07 4:53

Yeah, but she she hasn't seen it, but I have. Okay, so hopefully she doesn't listen to this and get spoiled because I don't even think she cares or she'll remember it, but um, yeah, no, I I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 5:07

I felt like I just I just hated Sun. I just felt like she was selfish.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

You thought she was selfish. Okay, Kate's on your list.

SPEAKER_05 5:17

I uh Kate was also selfish, but Kate she was so selfish later. I don't think she was selfish to up getting to the island. I would 100% back her killing her stepfather.

SPEAKER_07 5:36

Yeah, I don't disagree with that either.

SPEAKER_05 5:37

Thousand percent. Like she wasn't being selfish, she was saving her mother.

SPEAKER_07 5:41

Right, right. I don't think that was selfish at all.

SPEAKER_02 5:44

I mean, on as far as like the island itself goes, Kate like was very self-preservation.

SPEAKER_05 5:52

But I feel like everybody was fine, I get it.

SPEAKER_02 5:54

Yeah, you're not stuck.

SPEAKER_05 5:55

You're in a jungle, man. First and foremost, you should G out there, you you need to live. So I get it. Also, yeah, there was there was a giant smoke monster. Like, what the fuck? I'm throwing at it. Like, if you're we're running and it's about to get either of us, I'm tripping you.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

Mike.

SPEAKER_05 6:18

Like, if I think we can both get away, that's great. But if you're about to one, slow me down or two, like if I think I'm getting away, I'm tripping you.

SPEAKER_03 6:26

I have a feeling you would trip, just trip one of us.

SPEAKER_05 6:28

I would also trip myself.

SPEAKER_03 6:29

Wait, on the debatable show, are all of T13 and you had to trip one person to make it.

SPEAKER_05 6:37

Oh, Travis, Travis has gone. Sorry, Travis, love you, but I'm tripping you guys.

SPEAKER_07 6:44

You guys always hate on Travis.

SPEAKER_05 6:46

I'm I'm tripping Travis and saving I'm tripping Travis and I am saving no, you know what? Uh Travis and then Damone. Only because I think Damone would he he wouldn't be able to keep up.

SPEAKER_07 7:01

He just is it because I would have is it because he likes crunchy peanut butter?

SPEAKER_02 7:05

Absolutely, yeah. All right.

SPEAKER_07 7:07

I mean, I can't even argue with that.

SPEAKER_02 7:09

Speaking of that, I like crunchy peanut butter. I'm saving you can trip me too.

SPEAKER_05 7:12

Out of all the T13 people, I'm saving John. Like if I could save John, I I think you can defend for yourself, Keith.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

Oh, yeah, I'm taking off on you guys. I'm I'm Usain Bolton out of there.

SPEAKER_07 7:28

Who wants to go first? Oh do you wanna do you wanna give all all of your picks each and then or do you want to take turns?

SPEAKER_05 7:35

Yeah, if we're well, if we're doing it, if we're doing it debatable style, the way debatable works is under Travis T rules, and so we do everybody gets.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

It's Travis T rules, but it's really kindergartner rules.

SPEAKER_05 7:52

Right. I never thought, honestly, it's weird now that I've I think about it, we could have been going one pick at a time this entire time. Uh instead of everybody naming four Travis and Snow. We just we were just like, all right, Travis, get yours out of the way. Um Mike can go first. We can do it however you want. It's your show.

SPEAKER_07 8:14

Yeah, you can go first.

SPEAKER_05 8:15

So if you want to shake it up, we could we could all take a turn, or I can name all how many mine? Yeah, whatever. Go for it.

SPEAKER_06 8:22

Go for it.

SPEAKER_05 8:23

Um all right, so I'll go first. Uh let's go, Daniel Faraday.

SPEAKER_02 8:57

Now tell us a little bit about so it's been a while since I've watched A Lost. So will you tell me a little bit about your picks? Because I know I know who mine are because I do I did some research and still remember some of it, but tell me about Daniel.

SPEAKER_05 9:11

Um he was part of the re uh he was part of the I think the he was a re a researcher uh in college. He was a uh physicist and he came to the island. Came back to the island? He came to the island. Oh, geez, I'm getting messed up with the timelines. Um I feel like that's easy to do. You get lost in there, you get lost in the timeline. Jesus.

SPEAKER_07 9:35

Yeah, he came with the I think he came. I don't think he came back.

SPEAKER_05 9:39

No, he came to the island. It was what's her name that came back to the island. Her and Miles came to Miles, yeah. Uh, but he was studying radioactivity, and then he made, I know he made the Faraday cage, right? Was that uh no, or is that real world?

SPEAKER_07 9:59

I think it's real world, but I could be wrong.

SPEAKER_05 10:02

There's I can't tell you how many times I've seen Lost, but I watch it every like two years. So I I know most of it, but but it gets confusing.

SPEAKER_07 10:19

There's so much content.

SPEAKER_05 10:20

Trying to remember the specifics is the absolute worst.

SPEAKER_02 10:24

If it gives you any context to how long it's been since I've watched Lost, I watched Lost all the way through on DVD.

SPEAKER_05 10:33

That's how long it's been since I've watched. I have one through four. I gotta get five and six.

SPEAKER_02 10:38

I used to work at a video rental place, and I I kept it.

SPEAKER_07 10:41

But they they had it on Hulu, so I just watched how I watch it on Hulu.

SPEAKER_05 10:49

They they do he, I know he does help with the bomb, uh get the get the bomb that they're gonna use to blow up the island. I just think altogether he's a good guy.

SPEAKER_07 11:00

Yeah, and Eloise Hawkin is his mom.

SPEAKER_05 11:03

His mom, right. Yeah, so right. Was she wasn't she pregnant with him though? No.

SPEAKER_07 11:08

I don't I don't remember. I know she was like an other back in I want to say the 50s. But then I'm not sure. I'm not sure how how it came to be, how she got off the island. I don't remember that part, and I don't remember like I don't remember the timeline.

SPEAKER_05 11:30

Right. It's it gets it's it's in wibbly wobbly by by uh Doctor Who Standards. Um Wibbly Wobbly, definitely Timey Winy.

SPEAKER_06 11:40

Yeah, I like it.

SPEAKER_05 11:42

Um I'm gonna go with Desmond. Okay, just I don't I feel like if you've watched Lost, there's no reason I have to explain why Desmond is amazing. Um fair enough. I like it. He he got to the island completely on accident purpose. That's lost, actually, is just everybody's there on accident. That's lost, maybe for accident purpose. Uh they're accidentally unpurposely there. Um let's go with Hurley. Ah, damn it. Uh Hurley Hurley is probably my he's probably my favorite character on the entire show. I mean, probably because I like comedy, but I I think his character out of everybody is genuine, the most genuine.

SPEAKER_02 12:32

Um I feel like he's kind of like arguably the face of Lost.

SPEAKER_05 12:37

Right. He could be. He was also most recognizable. He also did lost references on how he met your mother. So for that. Um, let's go, Charlie. Even though I realize after watching back, Charlie's not on it for that long.

SPEAKER_02 12:54

Oh no, he dies. I mean, no, no spoilers, but I mean I hope if you're listening to this, you've watched it. I hope this is your introduction to Lost.

SPEAKER_05 13:04

Yeah, I mean, he you'll forget by the time you're watching it, but he's he's also he like he's a very flawed character, but he's again. I mean other than other than the heroine addiction, uh he's he you know, he's genuinely good at heart. I think that was his really is the heroine. Um how many, how many do we all get? Did I didn't do the math?

SPEAKER_02 13:29

Well, okay, if there's 16.

SPEAKER_07 13:32

Um it's like five, five six, and then and then one of us gets a bonus, or somebody throws in an extra one.

SPEAKER_05 13:40

I mean, we can just throw in Jack. I was saying you can just throw in Jack.

SPEAKER_07 13:44

Jack is a is that is anyone gonna pick Jack?

SPEAKER_05 13:47

Is it universal? I feel like I've ever nobody's gonna pick him because everybody's gonna pick him, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 13:54

No, he was not on my list. Not at all, really, not at all.

SPEAKER_02 13:57

No, I like Jack.

SPEAKER_05 13:59

Jack is also very flawed.

SPEAKER_02 14:01

I mean, we don't have we can throw in Sawyer because Sawyer's an universal. We can say Sawyer.

SPEAKER_05 14:05

We could put Sawyer.

SPEAKER_02 14:06

Sawyer could be that's the universal one, then. Um Jack doesn't make it, I'm not mad. Like he was a good, I mean, he's a good character, but he's also kind of annoying. All right, I'm just gonna I I've got my next two.

SPEAKER_05 14:22

I'm just gonna spit them one after another. I'm gonna go Desmond and I'm gonna go line. Uh and I'm gonna go uh Ben. You said Desmond. I said Desmond and then Ben.

SPEAKER_02 14:32

Oh, okay. I'm sorry.

unknown 14:33

Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 14:34

Sorry, sorry, sorry.

SPEAKER_05 14:35

I did uh yeah, Desmond.

SPEAKER_07 14:37

No, wait, you got Desmond.

SPEAKER_05 14:39

Did I? No, I did number two. You're right. So we go Ben. He knows in twice. Uh drinking, I guess. I don't know. Um yeah, he does. And I've got a lot of others, don't I? Uh no, I guess it's half and half.

SPEAKER_07 14:58

Alright, so you got your five, and then so well then I'll Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

Did you freeze, buddy?

SPEAKER_07 15:13

We yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:16

There he is. Dude, I think he's coming back. Yeah, I froze. I froze. Alright. So we're doing five, and then we all froze.

SPEAKER_07 15:23

We were like, uh Yeah, so five. All right, Keith, you want to go?

SPEAKER_02 15:29

Sure. Oh, I meant Richard. That's who I meant. Desmond. All right. Uh so fuck Mike. I'm putting in Sun. Fuck the fuck soin, man. I don't care if she goes far, she deserves to be here. She's very likable, and I liked her development. Um next, I'll go Kate. Even though she was a little bit on the obnoxious side as far as like the love triangle stuff, which I feel like uh, I mean, it's a TV show, you kind of need it. But she's a badass and she does what she wants, so that's why she's making it in. Um independent woman, yeah. She don't need no man. So when I I think she's progressive, she wanted that thruple and they weren't ready for it.

SPEAKER_07 16:21

They weren't ready.

SPEAKER_02 16:25

Um, so initially watching Lost, I absolutely loved Claire. And you because I hated her.

SPEAKER_05 16:34

I absolutely hated her. There was a minute where I'm like, oh, you know, poor Claire, but then I was like, fuck Claire. Like, especially like after she went with um, I mean, it was technically the man in black.

SPEAKER_07 16:46

Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:47

When she went with the man in black and became all Bray Wyatt and shit. Uh that's a wrestling reference. Um, Bray Wyatt would have been lit if he was on Lost. Yeah, he would. It would have been awesome.

SPEAKER_02 17:01

I feel like he'd be the bad, he'd be the big bad guy.

SPEAKER_05 17:04

Right, he would be the man in black. Man in black would just be Bray Wyatt, or Will Smith and Tommy if I was doing a booking, a book it verse two, that's what I would just do. I just it would be wrestling and be like survivorslash lost with wrestling.

SPEAKER_02 17:17

That's our other show on T13. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 17:20

Sorry.

SPEAKER_07 17:21

I know it has something to do with wrestling. I didn't know the name of it.

SPEAKER_05 17:24

All right, yeah, it's book it, book it a wrestling podcast. I'm your Christian half of Mike.

SPEAKER_02 17:32

I was waiting for you to go the rest of the way. Um, so Claire. Type it in, Mike.

SPEAKER_05 17:41

So far, you've had you've been very female forward.

SPEAKER_02 17:46

Uh, yeah. I like female characters. What can I say? Um, however, the next one I'm gonna go with Walt.

SPEAKER_07 17:55

Walt! Oh, I have to go. I think that's the only acceptable way to write it, right?

SPEAKER_02 18:03

Yeah, yeah, I feel like his character kind of fizzled out without having like he had some sort of power, and then and then it just went nowhere. Yeah, and it just kind of indicative that's kind of indicative of the show.

SPEAKER_05 18:19

It's yeah, it's almost as if they they had one idea and then just dropped it. Right, right, like it's like with the with the whole others, I feel like they changed the idea of what they're gonna have for the others.

SPEAKER_02 18:35

They were writing like on a South Park style, like week two weeks. Right, they're like week by week.

SPEAKER_05 18:41

They were like, all right, it's it's like book it again. Another reference. When we do a book it first, it's it's a week, I'm writing week by week. I'm waiting to find out what what the audience thought.

SPEAKER_02 18:53

So is that my five? That's my five, right? You got one more. Oh, I got one more. Um, I will throw in Locke. Yeah, I mean, I knew somebody had because I feel like he's just right up there with Hurley as far as being like synonymous with the show. I mean, there were times where he was good, there was times where he was sketchy. He kept everyone kind of on their toes. Ironically, on their toes since he couldn't walk and then bum.

SPEAKER_07 19:24

All right, so let's see. First for me, put Juliet.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_07 19:32

I like Juliet. I think when we meet her, we just don't know what to make of her, and we realize that you know she's just like this person who is true to herself, but she's kind of a mystery, you know. And I like that about her.

SPEAKER_05 19:55

I yeah, I I like that when we hate her at first, and then like they really that and I think that's something the show does well. You hate everybody at first, and then they that you see a good side of them, and then you like them. I other than even I mean, even the man in black at one point, you're just like, Well, he might be an evil sadistic fuck who kills everybody as a smoke monster, but does he have a choice? Not really. He he didn't do it on purpose, he didn't know, he didn't know any better.

SPEAKER_07 20:31

All right, so we got Ben up there. Ben was on my list, Sawyer was on my list, Hurley was on my list. Said, yes, Said is just an underrated badass.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

Yeah, he is.

SPEAKER_07 20:45

He like, I don't know why he wasn't the leader.

SPEAKER_05 20:48

I mean oh, because no, I mean, I don't think he was leader material.

SPEAKER_07 20:54

Uh sure. Well, because I think he wanted to be, but he never but not the guy who's been to war.

SPEAKER_05 20:59

He's yes, that's exactly it. Because when it comes down to it, let's look at his let's look at his methods. He went torture first. That is what he knew. He always thought torture was the answer.

SPEAKER_07 21:13

And Jack always reacts before he thinks.

SPEAKER_05 21:16

But then but Jack does but I felt like even with Jack in charge, even if he did react first, it wasn't something that it wasn't torture, it wasn't all right lethal per se. Like he he locked somebody up, he put him, he put Ben in, they put Ben into you know a locked room. Uh that worked out well, but then what did what did Said want to do? Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 21:40

He was bamboo under the fingertips.

SPEAKER_05 21:43

Was he was he right in not believing Ben? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 21:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:47

Did he did they go and find the the uh balloon and find out he was a fake? Yes. But he wouldn't have got it through torture. I don't think he did it, got it through torture. I think he I think didn't they got it through being kind, didn't they?

SPEAKER_07 22:04

Like well, he he and then Jack beat him up.

SPEAKER_05 22:06

Jack beat the shit out of him, didn't he?

SPEAKER_07 22:09

Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_05 22:11

He got angry or something and then went in there and just started whooping his ass.

SPEAKER_07 22:16

Ben got beat up by every character, I think.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

Yeah, to to be fair, he kind of deserved it.

unknown 22:24

Um

SPEAKER_07 22:25

Um all right. We'll we'll throw Richard up there too.

unknown 22:29

Cool.

SPEAKER_04 22:30

Richard was a good character.

SPEAKER_05 22:32

Richard Ben, I think, somebody who I don't think he had a bad side to him. He's always mysterious, and then when you found out about him, you realize, I mean, he was just doing what what Jacob wanted him to do to keep the island safe, and he understood why the island needed to actually be safe, but he all I mean, yeah, I don't think I don't think Richard did anything bad.

SPEAKER_07 22:56

No. Does the island should the island count as a character?

SPEAKER_05 23:01

I don't I look at the island as an and I mean I I don't that's tough.

SPEAKER_02 23:06

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_05 23:07

I think it is a character, but I don't think it should count to this because otherwise it's just like it's the island, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:14

Because I mean that aspect, I feel like it just goes on to the finals, right? Like it's yeah, it's the reason for the show, right?

SPEAKER_07 23:21

Okay, all right. My next one is Lapidas. Lapitas, yeah, Frank Lapidas. Uh, I I agree with that.

SPEAKER_02 23:30

L-I-U-P-I-T-U-S.

SPEAKER_07 23:34

I think it might be a D, but don't quote me on that.

SPEAKER_02 23:39

All right, that's as close as we're getting.

SPEAKER_07 23:41

Yeah, hold on.

SPEAKER_04 23:42

We can figure it out, Mike. No, we're not well. Let's go back.

SPEAKER_05 23:45

Let her make her last pick. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 23:47

This one is tough. You guys took my picks.

SPEAKER_05 23:49

Um, there's still so many.

SPEAKER_07 23:53

I know, but like, I'm kind of torn between Jin and Miles right now.

SPEAKER_05 23:59

In who?

SPEAKER_07 24:00

Jin and Miles.

SPEAKER_02 24:02

Hmm. It's L-A-P-I-D-U-S.

SPEAKER_07 24:08

Or even Rousseau. I mean, she survived by herself. She's pretty badass.

SPEAKER_02 24:14

Mr. Echo, Mr.

SPEAKER_07 24:16

Eko.

SPEAKER_05 24:16

Mr. Echo, ooh, Mr. Echo. Oh, his story is heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_02 24:21

Jen.

SPEAKER_07 24:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:24

Michael.

SPEAKER_07 24:25

Michael. Come on. Walt surviving.

SPEAKER_02 24:29

That's all he was good for. Let's be honest. As he didn't add he stepped up. I mean, it took it helped Walt's character development. I feel like is he was more of a supportive character for Walt, which we've already said went nowhere.

SPEAKER_07 24:45

All right, let's fortunately. Why is this so hard? Um, all right, let's let's put Jin down.

SPEAKER_02 24:54

Is that you want to go with that?

SPEAKER_07 24:56

If unless you guys have a better one.

SPEAKER_05 25:01

We didn't put Jack on here. I know he wasn't on your list, but we didn't put Jack on here.

SPEAKER_07 25:05

Do you want do you want to put Jack on there?

SPEAKER_05 25:08

I looking at the list. I feel like Mike does. I feel like yes, kind of. Okay. I mean, I'm looking at the list, and a lot of a lot of people that are left are okay, but they're not, you know, the the greatest choices, because you're not gonna put you're not gonna put Mikhail on here. You're not gonna put this on here.

SPEAKER_07 25:33

I would I might choose Mikhail over Jack. Really? Mikhail died how many times and still comes back to life.

SPEAKER_02 25:41

I mean he's he was I feel like he it was all together a bad guy. So does it count as dying on the island if it's actually like true? Is it dying?

SPEAKER_05 25:52

Um I mean, yes, because the island is in heaven, it's the after island.

SPEAKER_07 25:56

How about Vincent?

SPEAKER_05 25:58

Fair enough.

SPEAKER_07 25:59

I don't know. I'm just I'm just throwing it, yeah. Yes, he wins.

SPEAKER_03 26:07

Vincent wins all the way.

SPEAKER_05 26:10

That's fine. I'll put him in.

SPEAKER_07 26:12

All right.

SPEAKER_02 26:13

That dog always wins.

SPEAKER_07 26:15

Okay, so before we start. Oh no, no, go ahead. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_05 26:19

I was gonna say, but um, where does everybody stand on the ending? Do you believe that the island was heaven the whole time? No, because because uh I didn't either, but I know there's some people that believe it's it was the afterlife the whole time, but that doesn't make sense because people can get off the island.

SPEAKER_02 26:36

Um so it's so hard to have a stance because of how sort of convoluted everything is because like well, they get off the island and then they go back to the island, like they get off the island and go into real world for like a whole last like half season, right? It was like a yeah, it was like a year, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 26:53

But it was like three years, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:55

And then they have to go back to purgatory or right because it's that's because it's just an island, it's an actual island, it's an actual place.

SPEAKER_05 27:04

It's not it is an actual place, but like they could but it's a supernatural, it's a it is a supernatural place, but it is not heaven or hell or death. The the future, the future the fast forwards were them getting to heaven, uh because that's all happens all after they die in real life.

SPEAKER_07 27:25

Like that's why there's like uh I thought that was like the sideways. Because I thought that everything that happened.

SPEAKER_05 27:34

Yeah, well, you're you're right, you're right. It is it's a sideways. I'm sorry, it's not the fast forward, it's a sideways. Okay, because instead of them going on the island, they live about the real life what happened, and then they all go to then they all get together and then go to heaven. They because they there's a line in there that somebody says, like, man, it we you know, it took you a long time. Like, they couldn't basically start that right. They were waiting for Jack. Well, no, they were waiting for Hurley and uh in real life, and Hurley and Ben were the last two. I think Hurley is the last one because he became the guardian of the island. He right, he he won and Ben was his number two, right? And then yeah, and they shut down all the Dharma. And if you I don't know if you ever watched the the the the featurettes, like the there was like little mini episodes.

SPEAKER_07 28:29

Well, I've I've watched the the mini episodes, I've never watched the um the new man in charge. That one I haven't watched yet.

SPEAKER_05 28:35

That's because that's with Hurley and Ben basically go to the Dharma place that sends out the pallets, look at the food and stuff, and tells them to stop sending stuff there. They they essentially shut down the island, I believe. Okay, until they have to find a new replacement, and who knows how long that is. Because I don't think they ever went through that because Hurley was I think they Hurley even says how long they were there, it was some odd years, but I can't remember specifics. Yeah, eventually I'm gonna watch that, but usually when I get to the last season, as much as I do like it, I also kind of at that point I'm like, all right, I've been watching this for six seasons, yeah, and I'm ready to move on to something else. I probably remember that the least.

SPEAKER_07 29:23

Yeah, I remember the sixth season the least, also, and I and I thought it was just me.

SPEAKER_05 29:29

No, it's it's I think I think at that point you're exhausted.

SPEAKER_02 29:32

It's a lot of jumping around, yes. And I I think that's the problem with the show is that a lot of people get so invested in it that they look for it to be or some kind of answer, and you just forget to enjoy it.

SPEAKER_07 29:49

Yeah, that's true. That's a good point.

SPEAKER_04 29:54

Uh, you were gonna ask something before we started.

SPEAKER_07 29:56

Yeah, so I wanted to ask you guys your opinion on what makes Walt special because that was something that they never really got to explore.

SPEAKER_05 30:07

I just think it was the uh I think it was he was special already, but the island is what gave him that jump start, and then there was a link between him and the island.

SPEAKER_02 30:20

I mean special already. How though? Like I mean, like supernaturally special, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:25

Like like fucking X-Men, man. He's just born with it. Maybe it's Maybelline. Hey. But he had it already. He had it in him already. He it just needed that, he just needed the island to awaken it.

SPEAKER_02 30:40

I kind of like that.

SPEAKER_05 30:42

Like, there's other people in the world also born like that, but they don't all get to the island.

SPEAKER_02 30:46

I mean, maybe maybe he's just in tune with like nature itself, and like he's in tune with the energy of it and all, and and and once he's there, yeah. So I like that explanation of it more than probably anything else, because I don't think I don't know if it's if it's trying to say like the island itself is what gives you the power, then the rest of the world should be normal, you know, normal.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

Right.

SPEAKER_02 31:15

So I like the idea that he's in tune with it and he's like accepting of this is you know, we're here, this is what it is, and this is the energy I can I can go forward with.

SPEAKER_05 31:26

Right, that makes sense. Okay, the island could have also just picked him. True, but he always had it, right? Didn't he? Didn't didn't they didn't they say he may have all had it even off the island?

SPEAKER_07 31:40

Well, they they the one episode that he had was called special, and it showed him like making the birds die. Yeah, yeah, the birds died, but then it wasn't really the window, yeah, and it was like the birds that he was learning about, but they never really explored his his path. I mean, I think it's honestly because he you know he just grew too much and the show moved too slow that they couldn't really keep him around, but which makes sense, but yeah, I don't know. I wonder like I I would have liked to see where they would have gone with that.

SPEAKER_02 32:20

See, there's your lost movie. You go into his origin and then how he ties into the to the to the island. He could have takes over. Boom.

SPEAKER_05 32:31

Maybe he was they they could have also had it where maybe he was a descendant of one of the others, you know, a long time ago on his mom's side or something, and power skipped a generation, and he that's why he you know that happened. They could have done something, they could something rules a quick explanation. Right. Yeah, right, yeah, okay. All right, might you want to shuffle this bad boy? Would you like me to shuffle this?

SPEAKER_07 33:05

Yes, please. Shuffle, shuffle, shuffle, shuffle.

unknown 33:08

Shuffle.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

Every day we shuffle and shuffle and shuffle and shuffle and it's weird to not have Damon behind.

SPEAKER_02 33:20

Oh, shout out Damon. I told them they can come on and just sit here and look pretty, and they're like, we don't know anything about Lost. And they're like, Well, just sit here and listen.

SPEAKER_05 33:32

Well, no, not Travis, because he would have complained that it was he was being spoiled, but he'd still never watch it. He's it's been like two or three years since he complained about me spoiling Stranger Things because he was gonna watch it, he still hasn't watched it. So fuck him.

SPEAKER_07 33:51

All right, so the first one is Charlie versus Ben. All right, Mike, you go.

SPEAKER_05 34:00

This is actually harder than I thought it was gonna be. Um, I think Charlie was pure at heart. I think Ben Ben was pretty selfish. But he also, I mean, yeah, no, he got his whole fucking family killed, or everybody killed in the Darm Initiative. Though the Darm Initiative were also assholes. Jeez, that's hard.

SPEAKER_07 34:28

But it's not who was the better person, right? It's who's the better character.

SPEAKER_05 34:31

Who's the best? I guess the way I look at it is the better character would be the most genuine person in the show.

unknown 34:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 34:39

Um, and like the the face, I mean the face of it, which we kind of said was Hurley, but um I think I'm gonna go Ben. Yeah, I'm gonna go Ben. I love Charlie, don't get me wrong, but I think Ben is more vital to the show, even though Charlie did uh Charlie sacrificed himself. Ben wouldn't have sacrificed himself. I'm switching it up. Go, Charlie. Go Charlie.

SPEAKER_07 35:03

Ben did put himself in front of the smoke monster to atone for his daughter. Yeah, well, he got her killed, so okay, but that was like a that was his fault. Yeah, it was his fault.

SPEAKER_05 35:16

He thought he could, he thought he could like call the bluff of Kimi. No, Kimi is a murderer, he did not give a shit. He was there to do his job, and that was it. And he should have realized that everything was there. He got his own daughter killed. Fuck that. Bennett was selfish.

SPEAKER_07 35:37

Alright, Keefe. How about you?

SPEAKER_02 35:41

Man, as much as I I put Charlie. Did I put Charlie in? I put Charlie. I think so. I think he stole him. I love Charlie. And he is such a great character, but he was only in for so long. And he did do, he had a big sacrifice. He wasn't there for that long.

SPEAKER_05 36:06

No, he wasn't there for that long. But he did he's not he wasn't there for that long because he knew he was because him and Desmond knew he was gonna die.

SPEAKER_02 36:16

So if he dies, that gets way too deep. I was gonna say, if he dies, does that mean he just accepts that he's dead and moves on? No, he doesn't accept he's dead.

SPEAKER_05 36:28

Doesn't he come back as like a Hurley?

SPEAKER_07 36:33

Yeah. Oh, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 36:34

Doesn't he like Star Wars ghost?

SPEAKER_05 36:37

Doesn't he like he comes back to Hurley, doesn't he? Like as a ghost. And he does it, he does it on the in the real world.

SPEAKER_06 36:44

Oh, yeah, but Hurley does it.

SPEAKER_05 36:47

Yeah, but I don't and I don't think they ever explained that either.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

But the writers have lost, I would never explain anything ever. Like they didn't. What do you mean? Yeah, they really didn't. They tried to, and everybody they didn't really explain a damn thing. That's what I'm saying. I wouldn't explain anything. Like, fuck you guys. Uh I'm gonna go Ben just because he's the longevity of the of the character on the show. Like, Charlie was great. I love Charlie, but he was only in for what two he was, yeah, three seasons. Three seasons.

SPEAKER_05 37:20

Ben, Ben and Charlie are both Hurley's best friends at one point in Hurley's life. First is Charlie at the beginning, and then it was then it was Ben. Ben ended up became becoming Hurley's right-hand man. I feel like he became his design. Sorry, he became his Richard.

SPEAKER_07 37:42

So Charlie is a good character, but I have to go with Ben. And the reason is because I feel like with Ben, you just never know what you're gonna get. It's it's so much more entertaining.

SPEAKER_04 37:59

Wow card, baby. Have you ever just been sitting there and all of a sudden start going, you all everybody? Irrelevant, everybody, irrelevant, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:12

It happens all the time, like yeah, a lot. I think it happened like twice a few.

SPEAKER_07 38:23

Kate versus son. Kate, if you want to take this one first.

SPEAKER_02 38:30

Um, going, oh man, I don't know. These are my two. Uh it's gotta be Kate. Like, I hate that son came up on this matchup first, but it's gotta be Kate.

SPEAKER_05 38:42

It's crazy that's Sun versus Kate.

SPEAKER_02 38:46

Right.

SPEAKER_07 38:50

All right. I this is tough.

SPEAKER_02 38:54

I think it's easy to to to guess that Mike's not going son.

SPEAKER_07 38:59

Yeah, I mean, Sun, I feel like Sun had a lot more depth to her character, even though she's a liar. But I I feel like Kate was a little bit more, I don't know, like complex? One-sided. No, Kate was just kind of like, oh, is it Sawyer today or is it Jack today? Well, who am I running from? But even with that being said, I feel like Kate is the better character. So I guess I have to go with Kate.

SPEAKER_02 39:29

I think Kate brings the drama.

SPEAKER_07 39:31

Yeah. I don't think the show would have been the same without Sun brings drama too.

SPEAKER_01 39:37

Let's be real.

SPEAKER_07 39:38

Sun, Sun was important, but I think Kate is the better character.

SPEAKER_05 39:42

To her husband, she did on her husband, lied to her husband with her English teacher, lied to him about knowing English, uh, for how long caused issues because she wanted to hide that secret, but then start telling people, right? Made it worse, and she's the daughter of a mob boss.

SPEAKER_07 40:03

But then what about after she got off the island and took over her father's business and basically you know told him, and now you're my bitch. I mean, not in those words.

SPEAKER_01 40:19

I mean, did she stop the mob at the time? Yeah, her stepdad.

SPEAKER_07 40:24

No, it was her dad, it was her stepdad, but then the real dad, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 40:29

But she loved her her fake real dad, real fake dad.

SPEAKER_07 40:33

She loved her fake dad, yeah. Her fake real dad.

SPEAKER_02 40:37

Uh real quick, I'm so sorry, BRB, but if you make it to the next one, I'm going Hurley.

SPEAKER_07 40:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 40:46

And Claire, if you make it that far. Hurley and Claire.

unknown 40:49

There.

SPEAKER_07 40:50

All right. So I'm gonna have to go with Kate, though.

SPEAKER_05 40:53

All right, it's it's unanimous.

SPEAKER_07 40:56

Okay, all right. So we know his pick, and as much as I love Lapidas's character, he he cracks me up.

SPEAKER_05 41:02

I mean, he just is funny, he's great, but but it has to be Hurley. I agree. I'm also gonna go Hurley.

SPEAKER_07 41:12

All right, sorry, Frank. All right, um, Mike Locke versus Saeed.

SPEAKER_05 41:20

Um oh, we didn't do Faraday and Claire.

SPEAKER_07 41:23

Oh, Faraday. How did I skip that?

SPEAKER_05 41:25

Okay, um because there's already a thing on there, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 41:29

Probably. Um all right, which one do you like better?

SPEAKER_05 41:34

I'm going with Daniel Faraday. I think he was uh I just think his he was a better character in general. Like, I like him way more than I like Claire. I found Claire annoying. Um and for a while she was normal, and then she just, I mean, she went off the deep end, man. She was easily manipulated.

SPEAKER_07 41:54

Right, like all of a sudden, she just gets up in the middle of the night and just tramples off into the jungle. Like, okay, I'm just gonna follow this dude now. Yeah, yeah. She I don't know. She didn't want to be a mom. It made her more interesting, but she didn't want to be a mom at all at any point.

SPEAKER_05 42:17

It wasn't until after she got rid of Aaron.

SPEAKER_07 42:22

Yeah, yeah. I have to I have to agree with you on Faraday. His character was more interesting.

SPEAKER_05 42:31

Agreed.

SPEAKER_07 42:33

Um I mean the only the only other thing that Claire had going for her was like the revelation that she was Jack's half-sister. Yeah, there was that, but I mean, but your your dead father comes trampling into the jungle on this island and you just hell no.

SPEAKER_05 42:51

Not going my my I'm not going with my dead father either. Like my why you barely don't know this man.

SPEAKER_07 42:58

Right. Right. Um, yeah, I think she she had only met him like once, right?

SPEAKER_05 43:04

I think, yeah, something like that. Yeah, it wasn't much at all. Like, I I think it was just the one time.

SPEAKER_07 43:14

Okay, so Locke versus Saeed.

SPEAKER_05 43:17

Claire lost?

SPEAKER_07 43:18

Claire lost.

SPEAKER_05 43:20

Yeah, absolutely. Claire lost. She is a bad mother. She's a terrible mother. Kate was a thousand times better mother than she was.

SPEAKER_07 43:33

Um this one's a banger. Yeah, who wants to volunteer first?

SPEAKER_05 43:38

You want to read it all? I don't want to go first. I'll just tell you, it's Locke. Locke is a thousand times better. I'll go Saeed.

SPEAKER_07 43:46

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_05 43:47

We would have to listen. I think Sae highly, I don't know.

SPEAKER_07 43:51

I mean, Locke is so interesting. You just see him at first, and you're just like, who is this man? Like, you know, throwing the knives and can't and he's not in a wheelchair, and then you realize he's just a sad man.

SPEAKER_05 44:03

There's so many layers to him.

SPEAKER_07 44:05

Who just gets hurt all the time?

SPEAKER_05 44:07

He just wants to belong. He just wants to belong. He wants to he wants to show people that he can do. Also, how often do you say, Don't tell me, don't tell me what I can't do?

SPEAKER_07 44:19

I know, all the time.

SPEAKER_05 44:20

Like another thing that I say all the time don't tell me what I can't do.

SPEAKER_02 44:25

You do actually.

SPEAKER_05 44:26

Mike says that all the time.

SPEAKER_02 44:28

Mike, you can't do that. He's like, Don't tell me. Don't tell me what I can't do.

SPEAKER_07 44:33

Believe it. Said is one of those characters that when he when he appears, you're like, oh shit, this is gonna be good. And and you just oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_05 44:45

He is a torturer. He is a psychopath torturer. Hey, but he's hot, dude.

SPEAKER_02 44:51

Like let's be real. Said's hot, and like how many people out there were like, all right, but let him torture inside of like two people.

SPEAKER_05 44:59

Yeah, this entire cast is hot, people.

SPEAKER_07 45:05

I mean, fuck, as much as it pains me to say this, I have to go with Locke.

SPEAKER_02 45:12

It's just tough.

SPEAKER_07 45:14

I really like the Sayyid character, but the show wouldn't have been the same without Locke.

SPEAKER_02 45:18

That's fair, that's fair.

SPEAKER_05 45:21

Yeah, let's be real. Uh Hurley, Hurley stayed too fat too long, right? Like, am I allowed to say that? Like, he was he should have lost weight. Even if they did get all those that junk food at one point, it's still not enough. He is a there's a lot of walking. They walk for days. The fuck?

SPEAKER_07 45:46

I guess even if he's bringing snacks, he's burning off all those calories of ranch dressing.

SPEAKER_02 45:53

Yeah, he had a sneak, a secret snack hold.

SPEAKER_07 45:56

He could that doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_02 45:58

Did you hear what she said, Mike? She said ranch dressing, not blue cheese. It's blue cheese.

SPEAKER_05 46:06

Blue cheese is is too fine. It's gonna spoil in the heat. You have to do ranch because ranch is preserve preservatives and gross.

SPEAKER_02 46:14

So I uh so for context, we've had a long-term debate between blue cheese and ranch. Mike is New York, I'm in Midwest. I'm ranch, Mike's blue cheese. I didn't really care about blue cheese until our recent bet. Real blue I lost.

SPEAKER_05 46:30

You've got you got fake ass shitty blue cheese. It's craft, whatever. It's all shitty cheese. That doesn't taste like blue cheese, though. That tastes like that tastes like ranch's dumb cousin.

SPEAKER_02 46:40

That's what blue cheese is.

SPEAKER_05 46:41

That's no, no, that's what they made shitty craft blue cheese. You need to get real blue cheese in like a glass jar.

SPEAKER_02 46:48

Well, I can't eat it anymore because that ruined me.

SPEAKER_05 46:51

I'm gonna get you some real blue cheese for Christmas. I'm sure you just said nothing like that.

SPEAKER_02 46:55

We should sell blue cheese on the website.

SPEAKER_07 46:58

You should. People will buy it. I um I prefer ranch over blue cheese, but I'm not but I don't hate blue cheese.

SPEAKER_05 47:09

So that's fair. Blue cheese is true.

SPEAKER_07 47:11

Blue cheese is and and and up until last year I've lived in New York my whole life, so yeah. I'm a New Yorker too. I just sleep somewhere else now.

SPEAKER_02 47:20

Sorry.

SPEAKER_05 47:21

I mean, Buffalo, New York is like its own. Yeah, now I live in Ohio. Oh and I've lived in Ohio for about 10. What year is this? Next year will be 10 years.

SPEAKER_07 47:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 47:33

Next year, Jesus Christ. I hear that Ohio is only for lovers. Ohio is for lovers.

SPEAKER_07 47:39

I thought that was for uh Virginia.

SPEAKER_05 47:42

Oh, and so there's a song. I don't know if you ever heard of the the band Hawthorne Heights, they're from like mid-2000s. Uh, and they may have a song called Ohio's for Lovers. It goes, cut my wrist in black my eyes, cut my wrist in black my eyes.

SPEAKER_01 47:57

I can't no tonight because you kill me. You know you do, you kill me. Well, like to it.

SPEAKER_05 48:05

All right, I'm not gonna get you churned off. I'm not gonna get you copyrighted here.

SPEAKER_02 48:11

Don't worry, they won't mistake that for the song.

SPEAKER_05 48:17

Oh, I love them.

SPEAKER_07 48:20

I never even heard of them.

SPEAKER_05 48:22

Oh sorry, such a good band.

SPEAKER_07 48:24

I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_05 48:26

It's for my emo days.

SPEAKER_07 48:28

Got it.

SPEAKER_05 48:29

I never had emotion every day. You live in the day. I'm 32 and I'm still an emo. I'm still an emo kid. It's not a phase, mom. It's not a phase, mom. I just don't have the hair anymore. I probably could. Here, let's see. Wait, wait, wait.

SPEAKER_02 48:42

Let's do it. Let's do it, buddy.

SPEAKER_05 48:44

There we go.

SPEAKER_02 48:49

Emo bangs.

SPEAKER_07 48:50

I love it. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 48:51

God, I just want to go to hot topic.

SPEAKER_05 48:55

My hair isn't moving. God. I need to do it right, otherwise, it looks like not good. There we go.

SPEAKER_03 49:06

My hair is super good like that.

SPEAKER_05 49:10

My hair was all used to all be in front of my eyes. I never really got to rock the bang bang for so long. It was like the entire face, and then it was like cut.

SPEAKER_02 49:20

So I'm no, I know we're deterring away from the tournament here, but Mike, I want you to rock that.

SPEAKER_05 49:26

John would love it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 49:29

I am very entertaining.

SPEAKER_05 49:30

I'll be honest, my it is in my face. So there we go. Now I look, I can't do that anymore.

SPEAKER_02 49:37

All right. If you're listening, you need to go over to the Sassin Tib's Patreon to see the video.

SPEAKER_07 49:46

This is great.

SPEAKER_05 49:48

Sorry, I know it's not loss related. Welcome to debatable. Enjoy your stay.

SPEAKER_07 49:54

It's worth it. It's worth it.

SPEAKER_02 49:56

It really was.

SPEAKER_07 49:58

All right. Um, all right. Next one. Walt versus Desmond.

SPEAKER_05 50:04

No, you said it wrong. Walt.

SPEAKER_07 50:08

Sorry for your ears. Um, easy, it's Desmond.

SPEAKER_05 50:16

Yes, I agree. It's all it's Desmond.

SPEAKER_02 50:19

I I I'll agree because Walt didn't get a fair shake.

SPEAKER_05 50:24

Yeah. Right. They didn't get they didn't flesh him out.

SPEAKER_02 50:28

Yeah. He could have, I mean, really, they that's a missed opportunity, I feel like, because that could have been he could have been part of a main storyline.

SPEAKER_07 50:38

Easily. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:39

He was ready for the main event.

SPEAKER_07 50:43

He, you know, like he could have been the leader instead of Hurley, had it played differently.

SPEAKER_02 50:50

In another universe, right?

SPEAKER_07 50:52

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 50:53

We need a lost what if.

SPEAKER_07 50:54

I know.

SPEAKER_02 50:55

Like Marvel, what if we need a lost comics? Oh, that'd be cool.

SPEAKER_05 51:00

Like give me some lost comics. Yes. I have the fringe comic. I don't know if anybody watched Fringe, but it's also DJ Abrams. Fringe.

SPEAKER_07 51:10

I was I was actually an extra on an episode.

SPEAKER_05 51:13

Really? That's fucking awesome. I love it.

SPEAKER_07 51:15

Yeah, because they used to they used to film at Brooklyn College, and that's when I went to school. So I I uh yeah.

SPEAKER_05 51:23

I I love fringe was one of my I have all of Fringe on DVD. Well I only have four seasons of lost. That's because like every time I look at the lost DVDs, I'm like I can just watch on Hulu, like I'll get them when I can find them for super cheap. Because I got these ones at Goodwill for like five bucks a piece, $250 a piece, $250 per season. Oh wow, so that was a steal. Uh and I'm not trying to pay $27 for season six. So uh, but I have all of Loss. I got them or I'm sorry, uh Fringe. I got them as they came out on DVD. Blu-ray was Blu-ray was available, but it was still like double the the cost. So I was like, I'll go DVD.

SPEAKER_07 52:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 52:04

This was like two 2012 was the last one came out, something like that.

SPEAKER_07 52:08

Yeah, it's been a while. 2015. Yeah, so every time, every time on Fringe when they were supposed to be at Harvard, it was actually Brooklyn College.

SPEAKER_05 52:16

Wow, the Fringe podcast was one of the first podcasts I think I listened to. Yeah, and then it was probably the second or third, and then I also went from there too. They did a lost podcast as well. Um, but they were probably the first network that I listened to uh for podcasting.

SPEAKER_07 52:33

What was the name of it?

SPEAKER_05 52:35

Uh that's a good question. Spire Golden Spiral Media, I think it was.

SPEAKER_07 52:39

Yeah, never heard of it.

SPEAKER_05 52:41

Yeah, they were one of the first that I knew of. Because it was Muggle Cast and an M.

SPEAKER_07 52:51

Yeah, maybe I'll check it out. I'm sure they're still out there.

SPEAKER_05 52:55

Yeah, I they do. There are other shows. I haven't listened to anything on their network in a while, though.

SPEAKER_07 53:03

All right, let's uh let's see, Juliet versus Richard. That that's tough. Um Keith, you go first.

SPEAKER_02 53:20

This is a tough pick. I'm gonna go Richard.

SPEAKER_05 53:26

It's not that tough. I'm also going Richard. It's not tough at all.

SPEAKER_06 53:32

Why is it?

SPEAKER_05 53:33

I don't hate I didn't hate Juliet. I didn't I think Juliet goes on the island and and staying there to keep her sister alive, or the baby and everything alive and healthy, or whatever the reason was, great.

SPEAKER_07 53:47

But well, it doesn't even matter what I pick.

SPEAKER_05 53:50

No, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_07 53:51

I'm gonna go with Juliet then.

SPEAKER_05 53:54

But uh Richard, Richard did not have a choice to go to the island.

SPEAKER_07 53:58

True.

SPEAKER_05 53:59

He he was a slave who got shipwrecked there. Number two to uh crazy said his name earlier Jacob.

SPEAKER_07 54:17

Because he wanted to like not die or something.

SPEAKER_05 54:21

He was well, he was so he was also he he was also selfish.

SPEAKER_07 54:26

So but they all were, and you can say that about all of them.

SPEAKER_05 54:31

It's true.

SPEAKER_07 54:33

I think that's that's part of the lore, is that they all had a every yeah, they all had growing to do, they all had something to to to overcome.

SPEAKER_02 54:46

Yeah, I think everyone, I mean, especially in like a a plane crash, deserted island type setting, everyone's gotta be a little selfish, and I think it's heightened because of the island.

SPEAKER_07 54:58

It's well, but yes, but I think that they a lot of them were selfish even before they went there.

SPEAKER_04 55:05

Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_05 55:06

Was Hurley selfish? Was there an incident where they really showed Hurley being selfish? He wanted to buy his mom a house after he won the lottery.

SPEAKER_07 55:15

Yeah, that's true, that's true.

SPEAKER_05 55:18

They I feel like except for Hurley.

SPEAKER_02 55:21

Why Hurley's the best.

SPEAKER_05 55:23

They showed Hurley being depressed and they showed Hurley get having really bad luck, but I don't think they ever showed Hurley selfishly doing anything. No, like he was a job creator, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 55:37

I don't I don't think he was selfish. He's probably the only one. The one, the one, yeah, the one.

SPEAKER_03 55:45

So this last matchup is kind of funny, yeah. Because arguably the most beloved character and the dog.

SPEAKER_05 55:55

Oh, I thought you were the most beloved character and sorry.

SPEAKER_03 56:01

This is the hardest one.

SPEAKER_05 56:03

Vincent, Vincent is a G, man. He finds a way to survive this entire time. Yeah, he's just a dog, they're all having gunfights, and he's just like, I'm a dog.

SPEAKER_07 56:14

Uh I don't want to start.

SPEAKER_03 56:16

I don't want to start.

SPEAKER_07 56:16

All right, I'll start. Um, I I mean, I love Vincent, but I'm gonna go with Sawyer. Sawyer had Sawyer started the show in in one sense where you absolutely hated this crazy redneck, and then by the end of it, right.

SPEAKER_05 56:34

Yeah, but even you liked him and then you hated him again. Well, you liked him and then you hated him again. Uh I'm I'm starting to feel I'm I'm getting in my own head. What if Vincent? Hear me out. What if Vincent was really the island in dog form? Wait, he woke up, he woke up, Jack. He's always there at those those those moments.

SPEAKER_03 57:02

He's just the island, like like Anna Mage's like hey Mike creators are like, hey man, wait a minute, wait a minute.

SPEAKER_07 57:12

He's not so crazy because I've thought of this. Not that not that Vincent is the island, but what of Vincent? Every time you saw Vincent, it was the man in black in dog form.

SPEAKER_04 57:22

No, I don't think he's the man in black.

SPEAKER_05 57:23

I think it was I think Vincent was a good guy. I think Vincent, the entire especially because at one point he was with uh what's her name? I think Vincent is is a good light. Like he is he is the opposite of the man in black because he's white. I mean he's golden, kind of like the the kind of like Jacob almost.

SPEAKER_07 57:47

Okay, okay. I mean, you could be right back.

SPEAKER_02 57:52

The ending of Silent Hill 2, the dog was in charge the whole time. So Mark, who are you going with, bud?

SPEAKER_05 58:01

Oh, I'm going with Vincent.

SPEAKER_03 58:04

Ah, you know what?

SPEAKER_02 58:06

So we have so we have a thing on our shows where we meme the ending, and I really want to meme Vincent to the finals. But over Sawyer is kind of like a travesty, a travesty.

SPEAKER_05 58:21

Travesty. Oh god.

SPEAKER_02 58:25

But uh man, every good TV show needs that like southern hearthrob. And not only is he a southern hearthrob, but he's like actually a decent character, like within the lore of it all. He like he goes through the rigor mole role of of the of the show, like this is a difficult show, and he's involved in this in the centerpiece of everything. I mean, as much as I want to keep Vincent in, it's gotta be Sawyer.

SPEAKER_05 58:52

Like, it's fine. I'm not mad at it.

SPEAKER_02 58:54

Yeah, I'm not either. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 58:56

I mean, you see, like he's such an asshole, but then you realize like he's pretty much a stand-up guy.

SPEAKER_05 59:05

He's that asshole with the heart. Uh give me one moment. I'm sorry. One.

SPEAKER_07 59:13

I mean, I I think he is, you know, he has his faults just like everyone else. But when push comes to shove, you know, he protects the people he's on the island with, and I don't know. I I think that his true colors were coming out.

SPEAKER_02 59:28

Yeah, I think that once so I mean, theoretically speaking, he's on a plane with a bunch of strangers, he doesn't care about.

SPEAKER_07 59:36

Right.

SPEAKER_02 59:37

And like this could be said for everyone, that's why they're selfish to begin with. I mean, they were all selfish to begin with, but like as far as like after the plane crash, everyone's looking out for themselves. But once he kind of establishes, you know, a I don't want to say family, but like kind of like a family, right? Uh he really steps up and tries to take charge. And I think as far as the show goes, it needs that kind of power struggle with between him and Jack and him and Locke, and him and you know, just him, just him trying to to do what's right or what he feels is right in the moment while also trying to survive. And really, you can you fault the guy? Like nobody knows what's going on on this, and and and he's just trying to survive, it's what he always does, yeah. It's what he says at the top, baby, ready to rapid fire this bitch, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:46

All right, so I have another question, and this one is about Ben. Do you guys remember in like I think it's the first Ben episode, and they show his friend Annie that he was really close with, and she gives him the doll, but then he kills all of the Dharma initiative. Whatever happened to Annie, he probably killed her too. Do you think he do you think he killed her?

SPEAKER_05 1:01:14

Do you think that I think he knew that it was I think he knew that she was a casualty? To be honest, Ben would do anything for Jacob's affection, but he was also tricked, don't get me wrong.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:27

True.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:28

He was tricked by the man in black, right? That's that's what it was. He was tricked by the man in black, pretending to be his mom. And he thought he was special. How did I think he ended up actually becoming part of I mean, like Jacob's actual was he ever? No, I think he was always tricked by the man in black, wasn't he? I oh because but he got but Richard went 100. But Richard went to, you know, was also with him, right? I don't fucking know.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:04

Well, he wanted to join what they called the hostiles, which was which was the others, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:02:11

But but wasn't he originally tricked by the man in black?

SPEAKER_07 1:02:16

Right, because he kept he saw his mom right like outside his window and then somewhere in the jungle.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:24

But those hostiles were Charles Whidmore's hostels, right?

SPEAKER_07 1:02:30

Right, and then they were and then were by when he gets shot by Saeed as a kid, they bring him, they bring him to Richard. Right, and he's like, and and I'm not really sure the timeline, but he's with them.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:55

I think that's I think that's what happens. The band of black tricks him, but then he okay. Oh, there's so many details, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:05

Yeah, it's only small details, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:09

But I I agree. I think Annie was a casualty. How about you, Keith?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:14

I think so. I think so. I mean, it only makes sense that if he killed everyone, that would include her, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:24

Yeah, yeah, he didn't give a shit. Right.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:29

No, especially after seeing, you know, further on in the show. He um he doesn't really care. But um all right, so this round is Ken. Uh Ben versus Kate. My vote is for Ben, actually.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:48

They both killed their fathers.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:51

That's true. Look at that. That's what Agnes always says is that usually on TV show, everyone always blames their mother for everything bad in their life. But welcome to Lost, where it's always the father.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:04

True, you're right.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:06

Yeah, she's like, I love that it's never the mother's fault. Well, yeah, not usually the mother's fault, it's it's the father. It's like it is refreshing.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:15

Yeah, I like um, I mean, I don't like that, but I mean, okay, you know, my chromos, so I can't type anything, so it's good. There it goes, you're good now.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:27

Okay, I'm gonna say uh I hate Ben so much. Even after he becomes a good guy, basically, yeah, because even then I'm like, ah, go fuck yourself. Sorry, are you PG?

SPEAKER_07 1:04:46

Not at all. Good, not at all.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:49

It is a podcast where you drink.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:52

What are you talking about? Uh, I'm gonna say Kate. I'm gonna go Kate. And if you don't, Mike, that's fine. All right.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:06

So I'm gonna go with who I who I went gotta went away from the show liking. Like Kate was just there for me for a lot of it after a while. Uh, especially after probably like the third or fourth season. And then I don't know, Ben did get his own daughter killed, but his what he did was was not necessarily a bad thing. We're rapid firing. That is not rapid fire, but let's go, Ben.

unknown 1:05:39

Bam.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:40

I think he redeems himself.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:43

I almost feel like we can just 3-2-1 this next one. I don't know if you guys did a 3-2-1 when you were on debatable, Lisa, but I don't think so. 3-2-1 is when we all agree. And we all say it at the same time. Usually we looked at it and we know. Okay, you can read it off who the matchup is.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:59

Okay, so it's Hurley versus Daniel Faraday.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:03

Three, two, one, early.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:08

I wanted to say Faraday because I knew we were gonna say Hurley just to fuck with it, but but it's Hurley.

unknown 1:06:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:17

Oh man, Locke versus Desmond. Um, for me, I would have to say. Out of this, it would Desmond is a great character, but I think that L the Locke character is much more important than the Desmond character.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:37

I feel like that, yeah, that's a very accurate lock is more important to the whole lore of everything. So I I'll go Locke too. Mike, who would you go with?

SPEAKER_05 1:06:51

Uh, I like Desmond's story a lot.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:56

Like I really like his story um going into the the army and getting stuck on the island and the whole boat race, his love story. Locke is just tragic through and through.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:15

He is.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:16

Every single part of Locke's story is tragic, and it ends in tragedy.

unknown 1:07:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:21

Doesn't Ben kill Ben kills Locke.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:24

Ben Ben saves Locke from killing himself, and then five minutes later and then kills him, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:07:30

And kills him because that's what he was told to do.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:34

Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:36

No, because Locke was it, Locke wouldn't go back.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:41

Locke was trying to get the others to go back, and the others didn't want to.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:53

In order for the man in black. Ben was tricked by the man in black to kill Locke so that he could take his body. Somebody that they would look at. Who are you voting for?

SPEAKER_07 1:08:10

Um, I think, yeah, we both said Locke.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:12

Alright, I'll go Locke too. Sweet. Sweet.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:16

Uh Richard versus Sawyer. Oh, Jesus. Um all right, Mike, you can go first.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:26

I'm gonna go with the character I like more. I'm going Richard. I think Sawyer is great, but I I like I like again, I think I like Richard's story the most. Um the fact, I mean, how he got to the island, how he became the right-hand man, how he kind of kept his cool through it all. And how he, I mean, he had his hand in everything. And he makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:55

How about you, Keith?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:58

Man, I cannot get past Sawyer. Like he just reels everyone in. I feel like I'm gonna put all the pressure on you.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:11

Yeah, I mean, if this was a different choice, I know who I would choose hands down, right? But if I just had to pick the best character, this is tough. Um, Richard is definitely somebody, a character that you know, the and the fact that he doesn't age, right? That's something that's special to his character. Yeah, so it's it's definitely a unique quality that he has, and you see him in all these different roles, like he's recruiting people, he's a slave, he's you know, Ben's like right hand, but actually it's Ben's kind of like his little bitch. I mean, it's so it's so interesting, yeah. But Sawyer is such a good character. Like, I really I'm so torn. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:03

That brooding southern man is just so like it's not it's not even that, it's like I mean, his whole character, because he goes back in he goes back in time and fits in, or get you know, gets in there, uh and just he because he's on Sawyer's on the island the the entire time is yeah, he doesn't leave.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:25

He's one of those that don't leave. The yeah, there's only what like how many of them got off the island? Six, six, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:32

Yeah, he was he was on the helicopter to get off, and then when they said they needed to unload weight, he jumped.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:39

Yeah, and he sack, I mean, that's a pretty big sacrifice.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:43

Like, oh my god. I am not happy having to make the choice. Um, all right, I'm gonna go with Richard. Oh wow, only because he's the more the more unpredictable, the more versatile character.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:02

Well, once upon a time, uh one of the bands I was in, we named the band Dear Mr. Sawyer. Because me and the other guy were big lost fans. It didn't, we didn't do much as that band name, but we did use that band name for a little while. Nice. And I think we may have ended up using it for a song title when we recorded our first album.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:26

All right, for this one, I'm going hurry.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:32

It's it's it's friend, it's friends, friends, and partners.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:37

I know. I oh fuck. Fuck. Alright, I have to go with Ben.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:45

Really?

SPEAKER_07 1:11:46

All right, yeah, and now and now I get to give you the difficult decision.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:50

Oh no, it's not difficult. It's hurry. Hurley. Hurley never killed his daughter. Uh whatsoever. He didn't kill his daughter. Like he Ben was flawed, but then Ben was flawed, flawed. Yeah. Like he would do anything. He killed his daughter.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:10

Yeah. I guess we're never gonna get past that.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:14

No, there's only so much you can put up with.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:18

Alright, so the next one Locke versus Richard. Where did Keith go?

SPEAKER_05 1:12:29

Uh I think his dog is acting up. I think he's what is happening.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:36

All right, Mike, you can go first.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:40

Uh between Locke and Richard, I'm gonna have to go with Locke.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:48

I don't know. Um between Locke and Richard, I I think I'm gonna vote Richard.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:59

Oh, tied up going to me. Yes. Oh man. Oh, Locke and Richard. That's I man. I'm gonna go I'm gonna go Locke. I feel like he's he's in the midst of everything as it's going on, and he just he just envelops himself in into everything that's going on that's island related. And yeah. Ooh. He realizes I feel like that sets up a good final.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:41

He realizes that the that the um the the the island's special. Everyone else is the island. He realizes it's special.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:50

Like almost not instantly, but fairly literally instantly.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:56

He could well, I guess instantly, yes, because he can walk. His feet move, he's like, Oh shit. Rose is like, I don't got cancer anymore.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:06

Right, right. Okay, question What was the deal? What do you think? What do you guys think was the deal with the whole pregnancy thing on the island that the woman couldn't uh give birth um couldn't survive children?

SPEAKER_05 1:14:23

I think it was the island. I mean, it's the island not allowing it, right? Because who was the last ones allowed was because the uh man of black and Jacob were both born on the island, right? Yeah, no, yeah, no, no, no, they came, they weren't, they were actually stolen away from their parents who were shipwrecked on the island.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:44

Yeah, but she gave birth on the island. She was she didn't get pregnant on the island, but she gave birth on the island, same like Claire. But right, but they but then and and same like Rousseau, but it seemed like if you got pregnant on the island, then your pregnancy wasn't going to you weren't gonna survive your pregnancy, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:06

I think that's just the energy of the island itself.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:08

Yeah, I think it's just the energy of the island, the radiation.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:12

Yeah, it just sucks up the the the life force from you, right? I don't know.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:17

They never I don't think they ever gave an answer.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:19

We can speculate. Yeah, it's on us. We can lost.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:26

I don't think they ever gave an answer.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:27

Lost the movie. We explain everything is the attack.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:32

Do you ever do you ever just watch uh or even just sit there and just think of the the the beginning screen and just go lost?

SPEAKER_07 1:15:44

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:45

I like to think it happens periodically through my life.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:48

I honestly just say it out of nowhere. Just I'll forward something will remind me of and I go lost, lost.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:57

Oh my god. I don't, but I might do it now.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:01

Remind me never to let Mike drive. Lost. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:08

There's GPS now. So uh but like like the intro, whenever I would watch it, it would like do the whole creepy thing and it'll make that noisy at the end. Yeah, because then the lost word stops moving, so it's like lost.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:22

Yeah. For me, it's more like when I hear previously, and then I always expect to hear on lost. And I'm like, oh no, not sure. Um, all right, so the final one is Hurley versus Locke.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:38

Ah, what a banger. Oof.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:41

Yeah. Um, this is this is pretty easy for me.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:45

I was gonna say, I'll make it easy, but we're all making it easy.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:48

Yeah, I mean Locke is a great character, but for me it's gotta be Hurley.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:52

I would just put it down. It is it is a rare wipeout, it is a rare final wipeout.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:00

Yeah, but Hurley is just so synonymous with the show. Yeah, island with everything. Like, if you see him, you could see him in a completely different show or movie.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:12

And he ends up winning lost, he ends up winning at the end, right? Like he ends up being the one that takes over the island and then changes it for the better, so no one else got killed.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:23

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:24

And the looking at it, he he only had one vote against him this entire time. And it was against and it was with Ben.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:33

Yeah, yeah. Hurley just sweeps all the way to the finals. Yeah, I mean, if Vincent didn't go up against Sawyer, I think it might have been a different story.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:47

That would have been great, definitely wouldn't have seen that coming, but um, all right, I have another question for you guys. Do you guys remember when they are going to they're on the chopper and they're like um going from the freighter to the island because the freighter blows up, and I think it's Faraday who's on the little raft coming to the island. But this is the same time when Ben, when we first see Ben move the island, and then the island disappears. But now the island moved, quote unquote moved, but what we find out later is that it moves through time. But why did it disappear if it only moves through time?

SPEAKER_02 1:18:37

Because it moves sideways through time, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:18:40

Right, it moves sideways, and then it eventually ends up at its destination, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:46

Like it's just a different, a different timeline of sorts where it's right, slightly migrated.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:55

See, um that confuses me because yeah, they're they as they move, they're like they're there through before their camp is there, after their camp is there.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:06

Right.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:07

But then, but how come the island isn't in the same physical location if it's just time travel?

SPEAKER_05 1:19:15

Well, it it's it time travels until it lands at its new location. That's the way I always looked at it. It's kind of like the time machine. You know, you ever see the movie or read the book Time Machine? It travels, everything travels around it until it ends in its final location.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:33

Okay, so I would just say I would just chalk it up to different it moves in time and space until it until it stops moving.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:42

Isn't one of the characters reading that book at some point in the show?

SPEAKER_05 1:19:47

Uh are they? I know they read on mice and men.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:51

Yeah, no, but I want to say um what's the guy from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, Mac?

SPEAKER_05 1:19:59

I I feel like he was in that Robin.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:02

Yeah, yeah, when when they're going to get Carl from like the uh Clockwork Orange Room, I feel like he's reading the time machine.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:14

I'm gonna have to go look because I never noticed that. Maybe it's gonna make Mike watch it all over again.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:20

I feel like somebody was reading that book.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:22

I only watch Lost when it gets nice out.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:26

Oh, right, you said this.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:33

And so when I watch it, I also want to feel hot. Okay, it's it's weird, but I enjoy it that way. Fair enough. Like I want it to be hot outside.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:45

You want to feel like you're on the island. There you go.

SPEAKER_07 1:20:48

Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:50

I get deep into it, man. Fully immersed, right? I remember watching it and like going into like a rainforest, like greenhouse type deal. I was like, this is what it must feel like in lost.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:03

I don't know why I thought you were gonna say a rainforest cafe.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:07

No, like uh like a great, like um zoo at the zoo, they have like the giant like yeah, I was I was a little lost too.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:16

I was like, wow, do they have a lot of rainforests in Ohio? I'm not familiar.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:19

Yep, they use rainforest in Ohio. Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:24

I've only been there once. I must have missed it. This this was fun, guys.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:30

I forgot that um I actually forgot that. Um, damn it, what's her name? Uh, Michelle Rodriguez was on Lost, too. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:40

She was uh with Mr. Echo. Yeah, I also hated her character, yeah. But they made her so sympathetic. Like I felt so bad for her.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:49

I don't think I could ever hate Michelle Rodriguez ever. I don't know about that.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:53

It was the same with Shannon.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:55

Everybody hated Shannon, and then Shannon was kind of annoying, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:02

But then, but then the minute she's shot and killed, you're like, oh my god, Shannon.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:06

Well, yeah, she didn't deserve to be shot and killed, nor did Libby, nor did Libby. Libby definitely didn't deserve to get killed. Who killed Libby? Was it was Michael? Yeah, oh what a dick. He didn't have to do that, he did not have to do that. Nope, he did not, but he did it for his son, so no, he did not have to do that. There's I don't care, he he didn't have to kill her. There was no reason he did it on his own admission.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:37

Uh I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:39

I mean he could have just pointed the gun at her. No, he could have just pointed the gun at her and then ran.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:44

You don't point a gun at something, you're not willing to shoot Mike.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:48

What is Libby gonna do? Libby wasn't gonna do nothing. You don't know, and Hurley was just about to be.

SPEAKER_07 1:22:55

I know he's about to drop his load.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:58

Also, think she was also it's weird that she was in that mental hospital, too.

SPEAKER_07 1:23:03

I really wish that they had gotten to explore her story. If if there was anybody that they could have given a story to that they didn't, for me, it would have been her.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:15

Yeah, I guess I felt like they they explored her pretty well.

SPEAKER_07 1:23:20

But she never got a back.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:22

No, you're right.

SPEAKER_07 1:23:23

The only time you saw any of her history was in other stories.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:27

You're right, she didn't get her own, but they weaved her in to like with uh Desmond uh Rich or yeah, Desmond.

SPEAKER_07 1:23:33

Desmond, mm-hmm. Yeah, so yeah, but I mean, yeah, we got some some uh exposition on her, but just not a lot. Like I would have liked to have seen more, but I guess it doesn't matter because she wasn't there for very long. Yeah, some but um all right, guys.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:57

Hurley is number one.

SPEAKER_07 1:23:59

Hurley is number one, yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:01

I wish I could tell you I was surprised, you know.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:06

It's true, all right. One let I have one last question for you guys, and then uh want you guys to plug whatever you want to plug. Cool. Where did the numbers come from?

SPEAKER_05 1:24:23

I think that no, the numbers came from they were candidates. Weren't they? They were candidates.

SPEAKER_07 1:24:33

They were, but they were also the numbers on the hatch, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:24:38

Right, right. But they they used the candidate numbers, didn't they? Yeah, Jacob used the numbers, the candidate numbers for the code, like the 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42 all represented a candidate. Yeah, but the fact that Mike can remember those numbers was great. Oh, yeah, there's very few numbers I can remember. Sorry, everyone else is like, yeah, yes, 42.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:06

But the fact that Mike remembered those numbers to me was amazing.

SPEAKER_07 1:25:13

Okay, yes, I'll give you that. They were candidate numbers for them, but that explains that explains on Jacob's side, but then on the Dharma initiative side, those are the numbers that they use for the computer, and those are the numbers on the hatch.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:31

Um, I believe that Jacob found a way to work them in. I mean, Jacob he he found a way to get it to get those numbers to them. Like he okay, he knew what was going on, and I'm sure he had some sort of influence in Dharma that we didn't get to to see either. You know that that he was able to send people to just infiltrate. I mean, get it in there. It's he could he could have done a lot of different reasons, or it could just been a coincidence. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't think it was, I think it was influence, but that's one of the hardest things about this show and about pinpointing down the reasoning, is it could have all just been coincidence. Like, oh, a lot of it does come down, I think, because certain things have to happen, even if you try to make them happen, they have to still happen, right? But I I I think Jacob also was some sort of he's not all-knowing, but he knew Blizzard. Cool, yeah. I I I recognize Jacob more than I ever recognize other things than I recognize the man in black. Like the man in black, it's hard for me to remember what his face looked like, but Jacob, like if I see him in something, I notice him right away. Like he played Jacob.

SPEAKER_07 1:26:53

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, for sure. Um, all right. I want to be respectful of your guys' time. I've had you here for a while now. So, do you guys want to plug your stuff so that everybody knows where to find you guys?

SPEAKER_02 1:27:10

Mike, do you want to do it or do you want me to do it? You plug yourself because I haven't gotten to do it in a while.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:16

All right, I'll let you do it. All right, uh, you can find me on Twitter, hi-fi underscore mike. You can find me on TikTok, hi-fi mike. There's no underscore keef.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:26

You can find me personally on Twitter at late nightkeefyk. That's a new one because I changed it recently. Uh, you can also find debatable at debatable t13, or you can find t13media at t13 on Twitter. Um, you can also find us on Facebook, uh, just search T13 Media and it'll pull up our Facebook. We record every week debatable live um on Twitch and Facebook or on Twitter and Facebook. YouTube um and YouTube. Uh we also record Book It, a wrestling podcast on Tuesdays. Um, we have tons of other stuff where that you can find on t13media.com. And while you're there, head on over to our T13 Media store where you can get a hi-fi mic t-shirt, a late night Keefe K apron. Um Keefe Keefe.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:23

It's Keefe Keefe. Stop trying to short it.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:26

Sorry, I'm trying to take Travis's thing.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:29

Yeah, you can find your Keefe Keefe.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:33

All right. You can find everything T13 at T13media.com. Uh check out our shows, check out our merch.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:41

And coming stone, you know, blue cheese dressing.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:45

So don't forget.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:47

I feel like we have to do a blue cheese and a ranch. I won't promote blue cheese. No, we don't get a ranch.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:53

Although I won't promote ranch at all, even if we get blue cheese.

SPEAKER_07 1:28:57

Um, I'm gonna put all your info, all your links, I'll put in the show notes. So it'll be like really easy to find you guys and link over. Okay, absolutely. And I want to say thank you again for coming on the show and for debating the best lost character because this was a blast. Yes, and uh yeah, so I'm Lisa and this is Sassin Sips. And as always, please don't drink and drive. And we are out of here. Have a good night.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:26

Bye.

SPEAKER_07 1:29:29

All right, so let's see. If I end the broadcast, are you guys gonna go away?

SPEAKER_05 1:29:33

Uh no, you can end it. We have to leave manually.

SPEAKER_07 1:29:36

Okay.