LOST Dr. Linus

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Hi, and welcome to today's episode of Sass and Sips. Today we are gonna talk about season six, episode seven, Dr. Linus. I'm Lisa. Today I'm drinking the last bottle in my box. Bottle in your box. Yeah. It's called Patrice Grasset and it's Rose of Pinot Noir.

SPEAKER_02 0:33

And I feel like this is up your alley, up your alley. Why can't I speak?

SPEAKER_00 0:37

I it's look, it's well, it's hard to see in the light, but it's pink. Oh. It's pink. It's pink. Yeah. So you introduced, and I'm gonna put this in my mouth.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

And wow. Pause. I'm Agnes, and I am still post-op recovering, so there's no alcohol in my coffee this time. But next week, I will be drinking to make up for the last six weeks.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Oh, that's gonna be fun. Woohoo! I like this. It's it's kind of sweet. I don't know if I would buy it. Um it's kind of crisp, also.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Nice. Oh, I would drink the whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Because it gives me like apple vibes. And when I think apple, I think crisp. So I have no idea if this is an actual wine thing description. But it worked. This is what works for me. So I will definitely drink this glass. Um I don't know how much of this wine I would drink otherwise. It's not bad, it's just not your it's not your CeeLo.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

So that's actually up my alley.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

That I had a glass like this last night of red wine, and you see where I poured this glass?

SPEAKER_02 1:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

My red was like here.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

And she drinks it like it's water.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

And um uh all right, so say that for me.

SPEAKER_02 2:04

I'll be right over.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

Okay, it's there. Julio's it'll probably still be there by the time you get here. So yeah, because I don't drink white very fast.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

I just had so many jokes.

SPEAKER_00 2:17

So many jokes. See my husband for us. Let me stop. I have a track record. Uh anyway. Anyway, Dr. Linus. Hot takes.

SPEAKER_02 2:31

Let's see. Any hot takes for this episode? Now, mind you, I just saw it this morning and I was like, uh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Um please tell me you already forgot.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

I forgot the whole show. No, I'm just joking.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Oh, and you know what I watched? You know what I watched this week?

SPEAKER_02 2:45

TV.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

Speaking of things that you remember.

SPEAKER_03 2:48

What?

SPEAKER_00 2:48

I watched Die Hard 2.

SPEAKER_03 2:50

Did you? I do the Die Hard, I didn't know which one is gonna be.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

I watched I'm neurotic, I can't watch them out of order, so I couldn't watch anything further because I've I have only ever seen the first one. So Okay, obviously, I had to just watch the second one. Maybe next week I'll get to another one.

SPEAKER_02 3:07

Uh I'd be happy to do it this year. Um every time I watch it, I'll be oh, I'm watching this movie. Like, I'm like not doing anything, and I'm like, like, you know, classics. Like, I'm like, I wonder if Lisa has seen it. And I go to text her, and guess what, guys? I have she has not.

SPEAKER_00 3:25

It's a pretty safe bet to say I've had it.

SPEAKER_02 3:27

She hasn't. She has not seen the untouchables. Who has not seen the untouchables but Lisa?

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Yeah, well, you know, I'm a TV girl. Do you remember that I was telling you about, I think it was in the episode with Keb, and I was telling you about the guy on the lawn mower, and his son records him while he's like while he's mowing the lawn, he's on his ride on mower, or he's vaguely snowblowing or whatever. It's so funny. As I was watching Die Hard, I'm like, this is giving me vibes of the guy because Bruce Willis is just talking to himself the whole time. And I and I'm like, first of all, I think it's awesome because I think we do the same thing. And and then it's like, I had memories, I know it. Oh no, fuck.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Like I legit was just like I would legit have a full conversation, like dialogue, dialogue with myself.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

Well, because you know what? Sometimes we're the only ones that pay attention to ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

Sometimes. Most times. All the time, I feel like. Oh, so my hot take. I don't want to say it was a hot take per se. Thank you. But I think it's the it's just more, it's a just validation of my thoughts where the side flash is, I think, listen, if it's real life or purgatory or heaven, I don't know. But it's definitely it gives them an opportunity of right and wrongs, second chances. Like each person they do the side flash with, they do something different or better. Or they make better choices. It may not be like happily ever after, but they make better choices, relatively speaking, for a TV show. So this is why I think they're all dead.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

I'm smiling because I love that it seems like you put thought into this.

SPEAKER_02 5:17

I know. And I just like she gave me the finger. Part of it is I just like being right. And on that topic of being right, I get perverse pleasure out of it, you know, because you know, I'm a Libra and I I'm always right. Um the last scene, cut to the I'm wrong, like even when I'm wrong, I'm right.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

No, as she's drinking out of her mug that says, as I suspected, I was right.

SPEAKER_02 5:44

I was right all along.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

I was right all along. I couldn't see the bottom. Okay, so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:49

Uh yeah, my daughter got me that mug, and my mother was like, Oh, your child knows you. The last scene. And I was like, Holy shit, I was right. What the fuck?

SPEAKER_00 6:00

Wait, what was the last scene?

SPEAKER_02 6:02

With the submarine.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_02 6:07

And I just thought this is what I'm just like, I am omnipotent. Easy there, cowboy. I'm lost, omnipotent.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

No, just I'm lost.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

That's that's all I am.

SPEAKER_00 6:20

Six seasons later, she declares herself omnipotent.

SPEAKER_02 6:23

And honestly, I'm just verbalizing. I always thought I was.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

Except for all those episodes where oh, so what's happening? I don't fucking know. But yeah, sure, you knew it all along.

SPEAKER_02 6:36

Well, I meant omnipotent, like in general, like in real life. Come on.

SPEAKER_00 6:42

Okay, I'm just the listeners know the truth, but we'll just let you have that one. The list is no next week, next week, it'll be something totally different. It's totally different because you can be back on alcohol. Back on alcohol, everything will be back to normal, everything will be back to normal. And you see, I don't know if I like this person because you're like, Well, here is what I think, and then you give an actual coherent explanation. I've given you what you want, and you're like, I don't like this. I don't like this. Yeah, we're gonna have to get you boozed back up, finish your recovery, booze back up, and go back to I don't fucking know.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

Honestly, if you go back to like earlier seasons when we're doing COVID and quarantine, and all we did was drink bottles as we were recording. I think I have some pretty insightful ideas and thoughts. Booze the fuck up.

SPEAKER_00 7:35

Yeah, because didn't I read you some that you actually said way back when? And I'm like, this fucking bitch. This bitch.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

Yeah, so maybe I don't know. Maybe I just maybe honestly is when I actually care. I have a thought. I live, I can legit go from I don't care, I'm not, I just don't care. I have no thoughts to oh, I'm invested now. Here's my opinion. Well, it only took six seasons, so do it sober. Six seasons, do it sober.

SPEAKER_00 8:10

All right, let's go to the island. Jack and Hurley wake up in a field.

SPEAKER_03 8:17

They say they want to go to the temple, and I feel like they're always waking up in a field.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

As opposed to what? They're bedrooms, they're on an island. I don't know, it just feels like Island Chateau. Hold on, let's go to the Motel, hotel motel, holiday inn. It's on the other side of the island. Okay, okay. Stuck in my head now. They wake up in a field. Okay. That's all they got. Could wake up in the ocean. Probably be worse. Okay. I just okay. It's like you're not field, you're not ocean beach. Take your chances.

SPEAKER_03 8:56

I just I don't know. I just okay, you're right. You're absolutely right. I didn't give that much thought. I swear I'm not drunk.

SPEAKER_00 9:05

All her thoughts this for this episode, that wasn't one of them. Okay, all right. That's okay. That's okay. You got some good thoughts. We're proud of you.

SPEAKER_03 9:15

Right. What more do you expect? Come on.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

Jack is jacking and he's just like, we're gonna go to the temple. Hurley's like, well, I'm hungry, can we have breakfast? No. How do you expect this man to move without nourishment? Okay, I need breakfast too. Anyway.

SPEAKER_02 9:34

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

Anyway, Richard appears and is like, oh, yeah, the temple? Oh yeah, that's that's this way. But remember that Hurley and I don't think I'm trying to remember, and I don't think that they've seen Richard any other place than when they were in 1977. And so now it's 2007, and here comes Richard out of the jungle looking exactly the same way he did 30 years ago. So Hurley is like, are you uh cyborg, a vampire? What's going on here?

SPEAKER_02 10:12

I mean, that's those are fair questions considering all the shit they've seen. That's probably on that's on brand.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

Right. And so then they're gonna follow him, except that he leads them to the black rock, which is the ship. I I told you, right? There's a place around the corner from me, like two blocks. If I walk to the deli, I have to pass it, and it's it's called Black Rock. It's like the shopping center, it's called Black Rock. Yeah. Richard goes to the Black Rock and he says that this is like the first time that he's been back, and he says it's not easy to explain, but that when Jacob touched him, he gave him a gift, and yeah, he lied about going to the temple because oh, you know, everyone at the temple is dead. Your friends weren't there, so maybe they're alive. But here we are at the Black Rock, and I want to get the C4 because, you know, just want to kill myself.

SPEAKER_02 11:10

Just I mean, right, just like just what it ended. It's cool.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

Yeah, but oh, you know, I need help because that was the gift that Jacob gave me that I can't kill myself. Hurley is flipping out because he's like, um, the last person to, you know, play with the C4, I was wiping him off of my shirt. Which is funny because in the sideways you see Arst in the in the break room, like wiping crumbs off of his shirt while Hurley's tugging about how he had to wipe Arst off of his shirt.

SPEAKER_02 11:40

I did not get that whole crumb white. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

I think it was crumbs that he was he was wiping something. Something off.

SPEAKER_02 11:48

But the whole point is, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

Because he's eating a sandwich.

SPEAKER_02 11:50

And I feel like he's always wiping something off himself.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 11:55

Because he does it again in yeah, okay. He does it again in this episode.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

So then, and Rich Richard's trying to demonstrate how he can't kill himself, so he takes one of the unstable sticks of dynamite and throws it, and they're like, uh, embracing, except nothing happens. Richard tells them how he devoted his life to Jacob, who claimed that everything was happening for a reason and that he had a plan and that he would share the plan with Richard when the time was right. But now that Jacob is dead, he believes that his entire life has had no purpose. So he asks Jack to light the stick of dynamite for him, says make the fuse long enough so you get time to get out. And Jack is like, okay, cool. He lights the fuse and then sits down. So let's have a talk. Let's have a talk. Let's have a talk. It's time to talk. It's time to talk. Let's talk. Can we talk? Can we sorry?

SPEAKER_02 12:55

Wow, she went on an Agnes tangent.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

I was channeling my inner Joan Rivers. Can we talk? People are like, who the fuck is that? Okay, anyway. Anyway. Hurley's freaking out, and Jack is saying, No, no, no, no, no, we'll be fine. And Hurley's like, cool, I'll be a mile away if you need me. Bye.

SPEAKER_02 13:15

Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

I'm not even mad at it. No. I'm not gonna, you think this is gonna work? Okay. I really don't want to stand here and blow up two in case it doesn't.

SPEAKER_02 13:25

Anyone with any common sense would be like, you know what? Fuck you and your mama. I'm out. Like, it just yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

Yeah, fuck you and the ship you rode in on. Let's go. Richard says, you should go with him. And Jack is saying, I'm not gonna die. I'll be fine. He tells Richard about the lighthouse things, you know, where he saw himself, his home in the mirror, and that Jacob has been watching him. And that he believes that Jacob brought him to the island for a reason, and that the reason is not for him to die here with Richard. The fuse gets to the end, and it it just like, you know, goes out. Nothing happens. He's like, You want to try again? And Richard says, No.

SPEAKER_02 14:11

I don't know how I feel about Jack just embracing the insanity of the island.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

We give Jack a lot of hate, but I'm gonna say something positive.

SPEAKER_02 14:47

I concur.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

Is that there's one thing that you can count on from Jack, and that is that when he thinks that he is doing the right thing, whether it is right or it is wrong, he will double down and he will not waver. He puts his life on the line over and over again for the people that he thinks he has to protect.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

No, it's admirable. No, I concur.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

He's also like a dog with the bone because sometimes he just doesn't let things go and doesn't listen to other perspectives.

SPEAKER_02 15:23

Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

But when he does, when he thinks he's doing the right thing, he really just puts himself, you know, it's like he does it at all costs. And you know, whatever. Say what you want. I'm not, I'm not, uh, I'm not a huge Jack fan, but I don't credit my credit's due.

SPEAKER_02 15:43

I mean, I mean, I I he annoys me if you if you're not gonna be like, I couldn't be in a relationship with him. Oh my god. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

I could be, I could share space with him, I could not be his wife or something.

SPEAKER_02 15:55

That's a because I would be him because my mugshot, you I've been smiling in it, and I'll be like, I did it. And it's funny. Okay, can I just do off topic? I like okay, the the good thing about Lost, the characters are human in that you like them, and there's process this process. The ones that you do like, there's aspects you're like, oh, it's annoying. And the points that you don't like, there's still aspects that you can you like and or respect. They're real, it's real, it's really fleshed out. I love that. And then this, you ever seen the there was one show I re-watched, and I did not like I love the show, but I gotta tell you, not one character on that show had any redeeming qualities. I hated except for one of the characters, Niptuck. Like, oh my god, I hated every like not the character, like they were really well-written characters, but if I had to be in their space, I hated, I could not be friendly, I I hated every single last one of the characters except for one. The one played by um Roma Mafia. Roma Mafia.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:05

Her, I loved her character. Everyone else, I was just like, oh, I would have, I, I would, I, I would have killed you. I would have blown, yeah, no, everyone I would have killed. And it's funny how there's some shows you, and I think there's other shows you're like, oh, oh, you're such a good show, but everyone fucking sucks as a human. You know what I mean? The characters amazing.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

This show is is completely the opposite because for better or for worse, there is even the characters that you start out hating, absolutely fucking hating, Shannon, Anna Lucia. You even so much. No, I know, of course.

SPEAKER_02 17:43

Oh my god, what's so funny?

SPEAKER_00 17:44

But even Sawyer at the beginning, he's a very unlikable character. And you see them get, I don't know, it's it's kind of one of those things where you're like, don't judge a book by its cover.

SPEAKER_02 17:56

And then no one is just one way, except for those so except for like those, you know, most like serial killers and pedophiles and all that. You know, there's some people that are just empirically evil, but no one is just not one, no one is just one aspect, everyone's multifaceted. We're all onions, damn it. We have layers, and I'll make you cry. Does that too? That's like the best, okay, best line ever that everyone uses from old to young to black to white to green to purple to left and to right, use that line, and it's from fucking Shrek. You know what I mean? Like, did they know that that was going to be like an iconic frame of reference when they wrote that line? I don't know. Probably not. Is there something they need to like go back and ask the writer? Like, did you know this? Did you know it was gonna become a thing 40 years later? Well, 20 years.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

Not 40, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:53

Whatever. I feel like it's 40.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

Back to the island. After now, we're gonna go to the Lost E's 1.5.0 or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 19:04

1.5, 1.5. After mine for you.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

I have I mean, I drank a good amount.

SPEAKER_02 19:16

No, you didn't. Not really. Drink her down.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

Okay, more. Put it in my mouth. After leaving the ruined temple at sunset, Ben runs through the jungle, falls, and sees a row of torches moving through the darkness nearby. He scrambles and rushes over, and it's Ilana, son, Miles, and Frank. So the group, the gang is all back together again. Ilana asks Ben where Saeed is, and Ben tells her that considering that Saeed just killed Jogan and Lennon, it's not likely he'll be joining them. She asks if he's sure that Saeed did it. Ben says that Said was there next to the dead bodies with the bloody knife. So yeah, he's sure. Sun protests to Alana that she told him that she that she told them, sorry, wow, that they would be safe at the temple. And Ilana replies that, well, that's what she was told. Ben suggests that they go to the beach camp because, you know, they have the water to their backs and it's probably a safe place. And Alana says, okay, let's go. As they head back to the beach, Miles asks Ben what that thing was back at the temple. And Ben says that it was what killed Alana's friends back at the statue. She gives Miles the pouch. Remember that she put the ashes in? Mm-hmm. And she says to Miles to listen, you know, because dead, dead body, even though it's the remnants, but whatever.

SPEAKER_02 20:54

But it's still technically a dead body.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

So Miles does his thing and he says, Yeah, Ben killed him. And when he says, Yeah, she's like, Are you sure? And Miles says, Well, you know, considering that he was standing over the body with the bloody dagger, yeah, I'm sure. Ben is like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like, not me, no, no, no. But they know that he's lying because that's what Ben does. So Ilana says that Jacob was the closest thing that she's ever had to a father. When they get to the beach, she gives out instructions, food, shelter, fire. But Ben, don't you worry, I got something for you. By the way, here's a chain for your ankle and start digging. What are you digging? You're digging a grave. Who's the grave for? It's for you. Get to work. And it's funny because, like, before that, he's like, Oh, could I help? And she just totally fucking ignores him until she found her plan for him. Son wants to know how long they're gonna stay there because she needs to find her husband. And Alana's like, actually, yeah, because I want to find your husband too, because his last name is Kwan. It's like, I want to find your husband. What the fuck do you want to find my husband? Right?

SPEAKER_02 22:15

Listen, but she's I don't know. I just feel like if she would have said that under a different situation, she would have had her teeth knocked out before the sentence was finished.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

Maybe. Ilana explains that because the last name is Quan, she was sent to protect Kwan, but she doesn't know if it's either or both. And when Sun asks what she means by that, Ilana explains that they're candidates to replace Jacob, and that when the replacement is chosen, then they'll find out what the job is. That sounds like a trap.

SPEAKER_02 22:48

It's all a trap.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

It's like, hey, you're gonna sign up for this job. I don't want the job. Well, you already signed up for it. Okay, well, what is the job? You'll find out when you get the job. Awesome. I feel like that's just the workforce now. Period. Like I except that usually we sign up for our own stupid jobs. I mean, not all like yes and no.

SPEAKER_03 23:12

They're like, you get you sign up for I'm going to do this. But once you get the job, it's totally different.

SPEAKER_00 23:22

Right. But they're not even signing up for the job to protect an island or replace Jacob or be the man in black or whatever it is that they have to do. That's what I mean.

SPEAKER_02 23:33

Oh, that's okay, good point. All right, all right.

SPEAKER_00 23:36

Sun asks how many candidates are there are, because she's like, candidates? And Alana says that there's only six left. And we know.

SPEAKER_02 23:46

I I really thought you were going to ask me, do you know who those six are? But you're not going to because it's obvious. Thank you, Lisa.

SPEAKER_00 23:53

Before Ben has to go dig his own grave, he's searching the tents and he finds, which I think is pretty obvious that it's Sawyer's tent, because it's like porn and books, and Frank mentions that he was supposed to actually fly 815, but he overslept. And he's, you know, he says out loud he wonders how different his life would have been if he had flown the plane. And Ben is like, well, Diamond still got you. Miles approaches Ben with some like food for him, but Ben says that he's not hungry. But that he'll give him $3.2 million, you know, what he asked for, way back when the freighter people arrived, if he helps him get out of his current situation. Miles says that it'd be easier for him to just get the eight million dollars in diamonds buried with Nikki and Paolo from the grave nearby. Ben says, Can't believe that Miles gonna stand by and watch as Ben is killed for murdering Jacob who didn't even care about being killed. And Miles replied that Jacob did care, and that right up until the end, Jacob was hoping that he was wrong about Ben. Later, when Ben is almost finished digging, the man in black arrives as Locke. He asks Ben what he's doing and why, and Ben tells him dig in my own grave because uh I killed Jacob. Locke says, well fake Locke, right? He doesn't want Ben to die, and that he's gathering people, a group of people to leave the island for good. But he also thinks that Ben would be the best person to be in charge of the island once he and his group depart. Ben points out that he's shackled to a tree, and oh, look at that. I do say that the shackle.

SPEAKER_02 25:36

I need one of those. Can I get one of him? I need one of him. There's a lot of things I need to do. Well, I mean, yeah, a lot of things I need to do like telepathically and just like, you know.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

You just need magical powers. Fake lock invites Ben to come to the Hydra station, but Ben says that Alana will come after him. So he says, Don't worry, there's a rifle 200 yards into the jungle, and then if you run now, you can get there before her and get the jump. He looks, Ben looks at Alana, their eyes meet, and she when you see Ben from Ilana's perspective, you don't see fake lock. Only Ben can see him.

SPEAKER_02 26:17

Right.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

And apparently only hear him because when you hear the whispers when he's arriving, Ilana seems completely undisturbed by it. Ben takes off into the jungle, Alana runs after him, Ben gets to the rifle first, pulls, you know, points it at Ilana, she drops her weapon, and Ilana wants to know why Ben is waiting. Like, just shoot already. He says that he knows what Alana is feeling because he watched his daughter Alex die in front of him. Ben, who is showing the emotions of grieving and ashamed, says that he sacrificed everything, including Alex's life, for the island in the name of Jacob, who didn't even care. Ben says that he was angry and confused when he stabbed Jacob, and he was terrified that he was about to lose what he felt mattered most to him, his power. But what really mattered most, Alex, was already gone. He tells Alana that he's sorry for killing Jacob and that he doesn't expect her to forgive him because he can never forgive himself. He says that he's gonna go with Locke because Locke is the only one that will have him, and she says, We'll have you, turns around and walks away.

SPEAKER_02 27:41

She didn't say it as nicely as you did. Well, it was more just like I find not only the way she it's not what she said that hit me, it was how she said it. Kind of like, I don't know, matter of fact, not to feed it, but just I don't know, it's weird. But I liked it. I don't know. I can't put my finger on it. I'll probably I'll find the right words to describe it by the next episode, probably.

SPEAKER_00 28:11

That's usually how it works.

SPEAKER_02 28:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:13

After staring at her in shock for a second, he follows her. When they get back to the beach camp, Ben sees Son and offers to help her with the tarp. And Frank puts fire on the wood. No, Frank puts wood on the fire.

SPEAKER_02 28:32

I think Chaneline, your inner Agnes.

SPEAKER_00 28:35

Don't you always? I'm I'm a little dyslexic.

SPEAKER_02 28:38

I feel like you, I think I'm like, I'm I we are becoming one gradually over the years. Like no one could tell us apart.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

Ilana sits holding her pouch of Jacob's ashes, and that's when Hurley, Jack, and Richard appear. Son runs to greet them. She hugs Hurley and Jack. Jack makes a point of moving to look at Ben, who stands like kind of aside from the group. Richard is also kind of aside. And this is like you said, this is the last scene in the episode. We see the beach scene from the view of a periscope, and then we see that it's Charles Whidmore in the sub. And he's like, because the other guy who's in the boat, well, the sub asks if they should stop because there's people on the beach, and Charles Whidmore says, proceed as planned. In the flash sideways, we go back to the school where Ben is teaching. It's a European history class about Elba Island, where Napoleon Bonaparte faced his greatest test, his loss of power. At the end of the class, Principal Reynolds requests that Ben supervise detention. Ben is like, but we have history club. Reynolds is like, there's five kids, they'll survive. And he refers to him just as Linus, and Ben is like, Dr. Linus, actually. I don't blame him.

SPEAKER_02 30:22

Like, you go through all that school and right. Um, I remember I had a conversation with, I can't remember who it was with. Oh, I remember. And I'm like, I think they were like, oh, why so and so? I think we'll talk about Jill Biden. And I think it was Jill, and about like, oh, everyone has to call her a doctor. Well, she's a doc. She said she's a teacher. I'm like, she's a doctor. She got her doctorate. She worked her ass up.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

Um, and yet, and yet, in the whole 10 years of friends, right, everyone's like Dr. Geller. No one blinks twice, right? When it's Rice Doctor.

SPEAKER_02 30:58

And I feel like they're like, I don't care what the doctor is in, it's still a doctorate. And I find the people who are bitching about it don't even have an education.

SPEAKER_00 31:07

No. And if my doctorate, I will call you Dr. Lisa. Allow you to call me Dr. Sassy Lisa or Dr. Lisa, that's fine. But you better fucking believe. Throw in the doctor.

SPEAKER_02 31:19

I don't want to say when men doctor, when the doctor is a male, it's doctor and Mr. So-and-so, which is fine.

SPEAKER_00 31:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

And if the wife is a doctor, it should be Mr. and Dr. So-and-so. Like she were any doctor works at the doctor. It should be doctor and Mr. So and so.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

Right. At this point, like acknowledge what they were talking about.

SPEAKER_02 31:41

Yeah. Okay, I'm done with my rant.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

Yeah, no, but it could be just that easy. It's harder when you fight it, really.

SPEAKER_02 31:48

Right, just call him Doctor. And another thing, off topic, if Billy Boba wants to be called they, call them they. How does that hurt you?

SPEAKER_00 31:59

It doesn't. And we know that doesn't. It just hurts your feelings because you're not strong enough to admit that there are other things that you don't know.

SPEAKER_02 32:08

Oh, you that doesn't evolve, that doesn't have anything to do with you. Does it have something to do with you? Does that make it irrelevant? But okay, back to lost. That makes sense at the end. We are now in 2024 where lost makes more sense than what's happening in real life. That should tell you something. We are in 2024 where the onion should just go out of business because they can't make up shit anymore. Seriously.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

Okay, for those of you, I don't know if if everybody knows, but the onion is a spoof newspaper. It's like it's like mad TV, uh, mad magazine, but for adults.

SPEAKER_02 32:44

It's a satire newspaper.

SPEAKER_00 32:45

Yeah. And holy shit, the real headlines are worse than what you see in the onion.

SPEAKER_02 32:51

Never mind the people who like actually lost their shit over like, oh my God. And people would tell them, no, it's a satire. Like, granted, it's regional, and not many people know. Oh no, but it's a satire. But they said this. No, but it's satire. But this ain't the but it's satire.

SPEAKER_00 33:07

Okay, can we talk about the people? First of all, it was like these people are dumb enough to believe that Haitians are eating your pets. You can't possibly believe that. Oh no, but they do, okay? Nobody is eating your fucking pets. Also, just when you think it couldn't be dumber, then we had Hurricane Helene. And how you come up with a conspiracy theory about a fucking hurricane. Oh no, they said, hold my beer. What did the Democrats plant the? I don't care what side of the political spectrum you are on. You can't possibly think that somebody planned this hurricane. That's not how weather works. And then you have these who are like, get the the Navy to with big fans to blow the hurricane the other way.

SPEAKER_02 33:59

No, so was that?

SPEAKER_00 34:00

Mm-hmm. I'm done.

SPEAKER_02 34:02

I give up. I fuck like that.

SPEAKER_00 34:04

It was like, oh, and then somebody else I saw on Twitter saying that because it's the warm water that contributes to the hurricane, that they should just dump ice. Lies. No, can we just go on back to like I said, it's it's literally on my Twitter because I'm pretty sure that I'm like, they can't be this dumb a weight, they are.

SPEAKER_02 34:23

Okay, let's go back to loss when things make sense, okay? You heard it here from me first. I say loss makes sense. Lord. Okay. Jesus take the wheel. Jesus said, no, thank you. Jesus, like, nope, I'm tapping out. Jesus has tapped the fucking. Jesus has left the conversation.

SPEAKER_00 34:43

I have said it a long time ago, and I will see by my words. We should have removed the warnings from plastic bags a long time ago.

SPEAKER_02 34:52

A long time ago. Like, listen, I've been saying this for years.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

How did we end up here? If you need a fucking warning to not put your face in a plastic bag.

SPEAKER_02 35:02

We should take off all warning labels. May the odds be ever in your favor.

SPEAKER_00 35:09

The only beings, right, that don't know that are kids and animals and kids who probably can't read. If you if you know how to read by now, you know better. So the warnings, right? Like I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 35:22

This is a really old thing. I don't know if it was made of.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

Four-year-olds can't read. Those are the ones who are gonna put their head in a plastic bag. Once you are able to read, you should know better. And you don't need the warning.

SPEAKER_02 35:33

You shouldn't be procreating. National Selection. A uh picture going around Facebook like years ago, long time ago, before AI became a huge thing. I'm sure there was AI going around. But I don't know, some like I said, someone might have made it up, but it's hysterical. And it was a picture of a tag inside a shirt, a child's shirt, and you have like the washing directions, right?

SPEAKER_00 35:55

And it's I know what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_02 35:57

Yeah, remove shirt from child before washing, or something of that effect. I was just like, I'm not surprised that this is a thing.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

It's really fucking sad. It is okay. Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.

SPEAKER_02 36:12

Back on back on the island. No, no, this is a side, this is a side flash.

SPEAKER_00 36:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:17

About Elba Island.

SPEAKER_00 36:19

Yeah, and Dr. Linus. In the teacher's lounge, we've got Dr. Leslie Arst, and he's complaining about the formaldehyde. Oh, that's what it was, the formaldehyde. I thought it was crumbs. He was complaining about the formaldehyde stain on his shirt and his outdated lab equipment. Ben is talking about the importance of learning and taking care of the students, and he insists that Principal Reynolds thinks that merely as an administrator, that sorry, he insists that Reynolds thinks merely as an administrator and not as a teacher. Ben says he refuses to give up on his own principles, and we the camera kind of pans out, and Locke is sitting like at the next table, and he overhears and he says, Well, then maybe you should be principal. Ben says, But who would listen to him as a principal? And Loc says that he's listening now. So we get this nice juxtaposition in the flash sideways. Here we are having Locke listen to Ben talking about how you should be the man in charge. And on the island, it's like the flip. It's Locke who was listening to Ben kind of in the earlier seasons, and now Ben who is following Locke. At home, Ben stares at his reflection in the microwave as he waits for the non-lean cuisine dinner to cook. He serves it to his father, Roger, and he changes the father's oxygen tank. He reflects on how unimportant he feels at his job, especially given that he has a PhD. And Roger says how he wished better for Ben, which is why he signed up for the Dharma Initiative and moved them to the island when Ben was a child. Roger wonders how their lives would have been better if they had stayed on the island. I want to pause here. And you think that this is all like kind of like a different universe or they're dead or whatever. So how does him, Roger, directly referring to the island and saying we should have stayed? How does that play into your theory?

SPEAKER_02 38:56

Um, because if you look at the relationship when they did stay, it was horrible. It's quite obvious now that they do have a better relationship. It's not they're not rich and famous, and he's sick and he's whatever, but the relationship so you still stand by what you said? I still stand by because it's quite obvious it's not an abuse. He doesn't hate him for killing his mother. You know what I mean? They're definitely have a better relationship.

SPEAKER_00 39:24

And then the doorbell rings. Ding dogs, Alex Rousseau at the door who comes to ask Ben about the history club that was canceled, and she needs help tutoring. Now, on the island, Ben kidnapped her as a baby, raised her as his own, and here we are off the island, and they are nothing more than student teacher.

SPEAKER_02 39:47

Or father figure. She does like trust. Yes, but he's not crazy, and he didn't kidnap her.

SPEAKER_00 39:56

Exactly. So now that's the disconnect is how do we go from him kidnapping her years ago? And you know, you understand what I'm getting at? So it makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 40:10

I mean, how she ended up like was the odd that they ended up in the same city. That's beyond me. But obviously, they got off the island while he was still a teenager. Like he got off the island while he was still a teenager. How I don't know, because he was with the others after being shot and they was looking for his like the father. So I don't know how they ended up off the island, but I mean, father and son. So they got off, they left the island before he kidnapped Alex, before the whole happened, before even Alex ended up on the island. And after the whole event, they probab Russo probably never would and her teen never would have crash landed to begin with. So, I mean, one, I don't under I don't know how him his father off the island together, I don't know how that happened. And and the fact that they're still in the same city makes no sense to me. And then another thing, he was still mad at his like him, his son getting shot. You could tell, like, in 77, his son getting shot, it kind of like woke something up in him. So I think he's like, okay, wait, I got and I think that was the beginning of the healing in their relationship. Thus, once they get off the island, things got better, you know. So yeah, it still works.

SPEAKER_00 41:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 41:26

Doesn't work? Now I'm scared.

SPEAKER_00 41:28

The next morning, they're in the library. Yeah, Ben is quizzing her on the East India Trading Company. When she can't answer a question, she becomes frustrated and explains that it's important to her uh to succeed because of her mother's sacrifices. She says that her mother's already working two jobs to pay rent, and then how would she pay for college? Never mind, Yale. Ben says that she's one of the brightest students that he's ever had, and he doesn't worry about her future at all. He's gonna write her a letter of recommendation, and she tells him that she needs that pervert principal Reynolds to do it because he's a graduate of Yale, and that's the school she wants to go to. Ben is like, oh, tell me more about the pervert. She says that she had gone to the school nurse, she fell asleep, they forgot she was there, and you know, did stuff. Did stuff that the teacher should not be doing at school while their students around. Ben goes to Dr. Arst and asks, Hey, could you hack into emails? And, you know, especially the nurse. Arst is like, yeah, but I want like a good parking spot and new equipment. Done. Then he goes, then Ben goes to the principal's office and is like, I'd like to extort you. I always get confused between extortion and blackmail.

SPEAKER_02 42:47

Oh, wait, hold on. I'm gonna Google it. Because I know it's like one of those things, like, if you if you put it in front of my face, I can tell you which is which, but because they're both like threatening to get something. Blackmail, extortion are both crimes and both threats. Blackmail voice. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 43:04

So Ben basically is blackmailing, trying or trying to blackmail the principal and saying that he needs the principal for principal Reynolds to write um a letter of recommendation for Ben to become principal, and then Ben will not release the emails talking about his relationship with the nurse. And the principal is like, well, let me tell you about an email, huh? Here's one from Alex needing a letter of recommendation. And he says, I see your blackmail and I raise you. And if you do that, I'm not gonna write her a letter. And then the next scene we see Ben in the office, and you're like, he's motherfucking sold out this kid again, except that he didn't. He says that he's dropping off some stuff, and Alex comes into the office looking to thank the principal for the letter. And she thanks him, and he's like, Oh, I had nothing to do with it. Look at him being humble.

SPEAKER_02 44:07

Maybe it was just me. I mean, it was part of the scene, but I would have been like, okay, like if I was Ben, I would have been like, this is what you're going to do. You're going to write this letter while you're principal for Alex. And you're also, then you're going to resign. I would have made that like I know.

SPEAKER_00 44:23

I think it would have been part of the deal. Round.

SPEAKER_02 44:25

Right. I think it would have if you would have gone in with that idea, like while you're a principal here, you're going to write this letter.

SPEAKER_00 44:32

Right. Yeah. And then you're going to write it.

SPEAKER_02 44:37

I think it would have had a beg a bigger effect if that was part of the initial thing. But I yeah, I think, but then it would but it wouldn't give him the chance to show growth. But I get it. I'm a better person. But he does better.

SPEAKER_00 44:50

He does get a little bit of because then he's like, oh, well, no more detention and history club is back on.

SPEAKER_02 44:58

So did it, I don't want to say the right way. But I mean he did it without throwing someone else under the bus that didn't deserve it.

SPEAKER_00 45:06

For a change.

SPEAKER_02 45:07

Right. They came to a mutual understanding. And that that is quid pro quo.

SPEAKER_00 45:15

All right. Let's do some trivia, some notes, some whatever. With this episode, Ben becomes the fourth character to have a flashback episode, a flash forward episode, and a flash sideways episode centered solely around him. He's so cool. And the others were uh Kate, Jack, and Saeed. This is the first episode to have a flash sideways focused around someone who was not on Flight 815 in either timeline. John Grease, who has played Roger Linus, has played him now as a young man in 64, middle-aged man in 73 and 77, an older middle-aged man in 92, and an old man in 2004. This is the longest age range, 40 years, the same actor has played of any naturally aging characters on the show.

SPEAKER_02 46:12

That's kind of cool.

SPEAKER_00 46:14

This is the first episode to have a flash sideways that doesn't have an appearance an appearance or mention of Jack.

SPEAKER_02 46:21

Poor Jack.

SPEAKER_00 46:25

This is the first episode to have a flash sideways in which the island is mentioned. Yeah. That's kind of yeah. And this is the first time Hurley has been back to the beach camp since the beginning of the end, which is the first episode of uh season four.

SPEAKER_02 46:45

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 46:46

Jack and Hurley are the first main flight 316 passengers who time traveled to re-encounter other main flight 316 passengers who remained in the present, meaning uh Lapida Spen and Son.

SPEAKER_01 46:59

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 47:01

This is the first time in the series that Josh Holloway, who plays Sawyer, has been missing for three episodes in a row.

SPEAKER_02 47:08

Unacceptable behavior.

SPEAKER_00 47:10

And that, which then leaves Matthew Fox and then Vangeline Lilly as the only actors who have not missed more than two episodes in a row in the series. When The Man in Black speaks to Ben, Ben has dried blood running down from his nose. It was not present before, but remains for the rest of the episode. And it's because it was a deleted scene where Alana beat him, which gave him the bloody nose. But due to time constraints, they had to take it out. So I don't know if anyone noticed the I just thought it was me.

SPEAKER_02 47:42

I'm like, no. Did I miss something? Because you know I miss a lot. But no, I didn't miss anything. Okay. Go fit. Aren't you proud of me? I paid attention to something. I'm so proud of you. I thought you, but wait, but at the same time, we don't like it.

unknown 47:57

Huh?

SPEAKER_02 47:58

Earlier you said you have thoughts, and you're paying attention. I don't know if I like it or not.

SPEAKER_00 48:02

Oh no. It's not that you're paying attention, it's that you're not drinking, so your your commentary is coherent. And you know, I say that as a true friend.

SPEAKER_02 48:17

And I actually love that. And if it didn't hurt to laugh, I'd probably be laughing harder.

SPEAKER_00 48:22

Richard reveals that anyone touched by Jacob received a gift, that being the ability to not die by one's own means. With that in mind, do you think that's what happened to Michael? Remember, Michael couldn't die by his own hand. He tried to shoot himself, he tried to car crash.

SPEAKER_02 48:41

Ah, very slick fair writers.

SPEAKER_00 48:47

Having never met in the original timeline, Ben and Arst are teachers and friends at the same school in the Flash Sideways.

SPEAKER_02 48:57

Interesting. It makes you question like free will versus destiny.

SPEAKER_00 49:04

That's what this whole thing has been about.

SPEAKER_02 49:07

And it took me six seasons to think about that to actually like care enough to say it out loud. And I hate that for me.

SPEAKER_00 49:17

I hate that for me. Maybe I'll just quote you in the show notes. We see in the original timeline, Ben sacrificed his daughter in order to try to stay in power, but in the flash sideways, he sacrificed power to save, not to save Alex's life. But no, to put her first. But yeah. To save her future. Yeah. On the scene at the end where they're on the beach, Ben and Richard are standing apart and opposite from the group reuniting on the beach. They're kind of like at you know, which I thought was an interesting setup. Some cultural references. When Ben is going through Sawyer's tent, there's a book called The Chosen. It's a book from 1967 written by Caim Potok. Sorry if I didn't pronounce that right. The book is about two teenage boys who form a friendship despite the fact that they come from different worlds, which I think is just very apropos for this whole series. All the people who have come from all different walks of life and, you know. The East India Trading Company. Dr. Linus questions Alex about this. And the company was formed in 1600 AD for pursuing trade with the East Indies, but ended up mainly trading with the India's Indian subcontinent and China. The Charter Act of 1813 asserted the sovereignty of the bit of the British British crown over the Indian territories held by the company. At the time of the charter, the East India Trading Company's power extended to all of India except for the Punjab, Sindh, and Nepal. And we hear about Yale University. Alex wants to be a college student there, which was established in 1701 in the state of Connecticut. The university was named after Elihu Yale, who was the first major benefactor of the institution. Yale, a successful businessman, made his fortune through his work as a representative of the East India Trading Company from 1671 to 1692.

SPEAKER_02 51:45

Oh, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 51:46

It's just so interesting how they have these connections that I don't know. Like I feel like I'm not a generally stupid person, but I had no idea of these connections.

SPEAKER_02 51:59

And I feel like these connections, granted, is easy, but who would have thought to say, hey, like no one would ever think to say, what's the connection between the founder of Yale and the East? Like, you know what I mean? And I'm sorry, like if you went to Yale, I'm pretty sure you would know this. Not for nothing. You know what I mean? So it's not you. You know, I'm true, like, you know, I know random facts about alma maters from my school. And I'm pretty sure you know something, some about shores, like random facts about chores. So it's not like you're it's not stupid not to know random facts that have nothing to do with you.

SPEAKER_00 52:34

I wonder if they have a history buff employed in this show.

SPEAKER_02 52:40

Some somebody whose sole job is to do like random shit and make the connections.

SPEAKER_00 52:46

Yeah. I wouldn't be I wouldn't even be surprised. We get another one of those fake outs in this episode where Ben is talking about the island, you know, and losing power, but really he's talking about Elba and not that island. Richard's description of following a man who claimed everything happened for a reason before discovering the man had died without any resolution to his plan and feeling like his life was worthless, also describes Jack's relationship with Locke, Locke's death, and Jack following Locke's instructions to return to the island where nothing has gone right. I feel like this could kind of be said about Ben too, though, right? Because Ben followed Jacob and had that same kind of relationship. And then he kind of also followed Locke until he killed Loc. And I mean, he's also following deadlock, but I feel like Ben is also a victim of sheep behavior. We see Charles Whidmore is coming back.

SPEAKER_02 53:54

Yes. And I don't know what that means. You have completely I have reached, I have maxed out my intelligent thoughts for this rest of the season. I don't think I have it in me to have any more lucid thoughts. I can't believe that. I think I'm I don't think I have any more brain cells. One, I'm just uh I'm not that smart. Two, hopefully I'll be three sheets to the wind on our next recording. Um, so there's that. And so yeah, no more lucid thoughts for coming from me.

SPEAKER_00 54:29

During the reunion scene where they come back to the beach, the score that plays is a version of the season four's There's No Place Like Home, which was first heard when the Oceanic Six return home. The name of the track, along with Hurley and Jack returning to the beach for the first time in three years, gives the feeling that the characters have returned home again. Even though that's kind of a nothing whatever, even though this is just kind of like a little blurb, I thought it was fitting how the beach camp was their home, and and even the characters and the show seem to hold it in almost this like with this reverence.

SPEAKER_02 55:14

Sanctuary.

SPEAKER_00 55:15

Yeah. And and them returning gives you that feeling, like maybe this is their home. This is where they're supposed to be.

SPEAKER_02 55:27

Or they just have no choice but to be there. Just settling and get comfortable. Just it is what it is. Suck it up, cupcake. This is your life.

SPEAKER_00 55:36

It's also kind of ironic that in the flesh, sideways, Ben is changing out his father's oxygen tank. And oxygen is a gas. And in the other timeline, he killed his father with gas. Probably not oxygen, you know. Haha.

SPEAKER_02 55:55

Oh, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 55:59

Forgot about that one. When they're in the teacher's lounge, Arst literally refers to John as the substitute, which was the name of his episode. So I thought that was, yeah, I thought that was funny. And not the movie. I mean, that's pretty much it for this episode. You got anything else before we wrap up?

SPEAKER_02 56:19

Nope. I am plum out of thoughts, darling. Oh, can't wait for next week. You better be shit faced. I okay, so I need your opinion. I don't get my post-off exam until the following week. I should be good. I mean, I don't get the official all clear. Like, I'm not gonna do anything. I'll probably be in the same spot doing the same thing I do every week. What do you do tonight? Same thing we do every week every night, Pinky. Try to take over the world. Can I get back on my soapbox for a few minutes? It depends. Is this gonna make is it gonna am I gonna be so am I gonna agree with you so much that I'm gonna be angry right next to you?

SPEAKER_00 57:04

I don't know. Oh all I wanna say is that we are a few weeks out from the election when this drops. Please, please, I beg you do your research. Make sure you vote. Make sure you vote for someone who has not just your best interest, but the interest of your family, your future children, your community. Let's be good people, let's care about each other, let's not get caught up in the hype, the violence, the hate. Please get your news from more than one source. Do your own research. Google is free. Please don't vote against your own best interest. It's so funny. But it's not funny. But you know how it's like in in so many elections over I mean, I'm 44 years old. It's kind of common to hear the phrase, this is the most important election in our lives. And then every election after that, the election is like, well, hold my beer. Because it gets even more important. And now as we arrive at the 2024 election, I feel like those words have never been truer. There are so many things that are important that are at stake. And even if those things don't necessarily apply to you, I guarantee that they apply to someone you love. And I think about things that are at stake here. And if one of those candidates were elected, things like my children, my marriage are things that they would see as invalid. My parents' marriage would have been invalid. People that I love have marriages that will become invalid. People that I love will no longer be able to call the United States home. And it's really fucking scary and sad. And so I know that this is not why you tuned in, but thank you for listening to my soapbox rant. Please make sure that you do your own research. Get out and vote, because our lives truly, truly depend on it. And that's your call of action. Call to action. Is just that's it. Pay attention. Did I do good?

SPEAKER_02 59:59

I tried to keep it without getting angry.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:02

Very diplomatic.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:04

Also very diplomatic and fair.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:06

Next episode is recon and don't drink and drive. Drink responsibly. And I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:20

I don't forget anything, right? I don't think so.

unknown 1:00:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:25

Well then until next time, I'm Lisa. And I'm Agnes. And we're out of here. See you later. Bye.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:39

Off topic. I want potato balls.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:43

And I needed to know this.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:45

Yes. Yes, you did. Are you there? I thought you always tell me what you're drinking.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:51

Oh. That's what you've been doing. You've been. Yeah, but but but I don't know. Because I'm doing those taste things, so I guess I just got like stupid.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:59

Because okay, I don't know if you noticed. When we first started recording, you'll do it, you'll you'll introduce yourself and then I introduce myself and then we talk about what we're drinking. And then you switched up on me and then start doing like introduce yourself and then talk about your drinking and then I introduce myself and talk about what I'm drinking. Now you try to go back and I'm confused. Totally confused it. I am confusion.