LOST The 23rd Psalm

SPEAKER_03 0:09

Hi and welcome to this episode of Sassin Tips, where every week we will be discussing and dissecting an episode of Lost in Order. We are your hosts. I'm Lisa. And I'm Agnes. And today's episode is the 23rd Psalm. What are you drinking today?

SPEAKER_01 0:28

My special coffee. Like, you know, listen, since we've been doing this early in the morning, I can't drink, like, I just can't drink drink. It's too early for me. I wait till like afternoon to drink hard liquor.

SPEAKER_03 0:43

I mean, it for me it's not that early. It's just I don't know. I was still nursing my coffee. So I, you know, I just doctored it up. Works for me. So anything you want to say before we get into the episode?

SPEAKER_01 1:08

No. Let's just start it. But I did enjoy the I enjoyed this out. I enjoyed this week's hour. Don't get excited that way, Lisa.

SPEAKER_03 1:21

Aye aye, Captain. Alright, in flashback. Nigerian gorillas descend upon a small village. They grab a small boy and try to force him to shoot an old man. The boy hesitates, so his older brother takes the gun and shoots the man himself. The gorillas.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Sorry. When this scene aired, I was like, oh, he did some catness. I volunteer as tribute shit. Like we took on. That was exactly what he did.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 2:05

The gorillas are pleased with this and ask him his name, to which he replies, Echo. The leader says that Mr. Echo is a born killer and takes him, leaving his brother and the other children behind. Echo's cross is torn from his neck by the leader who says, You won't need this anymore. Yemi picks up the cross as Echo rides away into the distance. Many years later, Echo has become a powerful warlord in Nigeria. He meets with the drug dealer who is trying to get a large quantity of heroin out of the country. Echo offers to do him a favor buying the drugs at a ridiculously low price and spiriting them out of the country. The drug runner reluctantly agrees. Before he leaves, however, he tells Echo, It's true what they say about you. You have no soul. Echo proceeds to slit the throat of the man and his assistant, but lets the man's sons live, saying, Tell all your friends that I let you live. That Mr. Echo let you live. Now a grown man, Echo visits the church in his hometown. A woman outside is trying to sell statues of the Virgin Mary to raise money for polio vaccines for the village. Echo's brother Yemi, who has become a priest, appears from the church and greets him. Echo asks him for a plane because only foreign and missionary aircraft are allowed to fly out of Nigeria. He says he will fly the drugs out of Nigeria away from their people and give his brother the money for the polio vaccines. His brother tells Echo that he still loves him, but he refuses to help. Echo later approaches his brother again, asking Yemi to sign papers that will make Mr. Echo and the two other men priests so that they can fly in the plate fly the plane themselves. His brother refuses at first. Echo tells his brother that if he does not obey, he will not hurt him, but his two friends will burn the church to the ground. His brother reluctantly signs. Echo and his two gangster friends are dressed as priests as they prepare to board a small plane at a landing strip near the village. They are interrupted by Yemi, who drives up to the plane and begs Echo not to leave. He insists Echo will die if he gets on the plane. Yemi is soon followed by the Nigerian military. Echo's two friends open fire at the military and one dies in the firefight. Yemi tells the military to stop, but he gets himself shot. Echo carries his brother onto the plane and tells his friend to get in. His friend does, but kicks Echo away from the plane before he can get in. As Echo watches the plane carrying his wounded brother fly away, the military approach and mistaking Echo for a real priest, asks Echo, Are you alright, father? You wanna talk you are all pixelated.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

Oh I am I'm pixelated. Okay, so it's so my obviously my first thought was like, okay, Katniss. Alright, but um also as you're reading and um the scene where he's doing the the the the negotiations and I don't know where you got it from, but it's like from from Boy Boy from Warrior to Drug Lord from Warlord. And I want to show you the notes I wrote uh while we were watching it. I don't know if you can see, or you can't you can't see it.

SPEAKER_03 5:53

No, because it's kind of pixelated.

SPEAKER_01 5:56

Well, I wrote from Boy Warrior to Waterlord. I said it's it's funny how okay, I'm on the same page as whoever wrote that. Um I feel like a couple of things. I'm gonna bounce back and forth. So I'm just going by my notes. So what was it 600 episodes ago when they first found the plane? Yeah, just about and right. We're like, what was like we're like, oh fake priests, you they think to smuggle because they found the they found the priest and the cross and the Bibles and all that. Oh, fake, so like, okay, so we're right and we're wrong. Yeah, because you Yemi wasn't a fake priest, he actually was a priest, so we're right and wrong, but we're still right at the same time. And remember we were talking about Nigeria, yeah, and you're like, I'm like, I don't know, I feel like I feel like it was mentioned at one point.

SPEAKER_03 6:55

Yeah, because when um when Boone and Locke when Boone and Locke found the plane, um Locke mentions that it's Nigerian currency.

SPEAKER_01 7:07

Okay, so maybe that's why I assumed she was Nigeria, because it was like stuck in my it was in there and I see it was already plant as it. Yeah, and it was subconscious planted, because you're like, well, how do we know that? Like, I don't know how I know, I just know he is, but that's how I know because I'm going crazy. Um, yo, dude thought he was killing Echo by kicking the plane and then fucking crashed. I was like, look at you, come with a bitch.

SPEAKER_03 7:34

But And they and and his brother said it, if you get on this plane, you'll die. And had he gotten on the plane, he would have.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

But I think it's this going to the n I think my next point has to do with it make more sense when we get to the island. Okay. So what are your thoughts on the flashback? What do you want me to say? I don't know. Well, tail.

SPEAKER_00 8:15

Yeah, it's like going on by.

SPEAKER_03 8:19

Um, I I do have I I have stuff that includes the flashback, but I'd rather wait till the end.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

Copy that. I think most of my stuff is connected to the flashback. It's a little confusing. Sometimes I confuse myself. Like when I write my notes, I write my notes as we're watching the show, but but as we're talking about it, we you know, so it goes back and forth in the show. So my notes go back and forth.

SPEAKER_03 8:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

And a lot of my notes have to do with, you know, so it's kind of hard. I get a little discombobulated.

SPEAKER_03 8:53

Well, just because um a lot a lot of what I want to talk about does focus on his flashback, but but I want to talk about it afterwards because there's another element from the on island stuff.

SPEAKER_01 9:05

Right, they're in conjunction with it. So it's like nope, gotta wait, but yeah, so let's go on.

SPEAKER_03 9:12

Okay. On the island, Claire introduces herself to Echo and sees that he is whittling scripture into the head of his club. She says he should talk to Charlie about religion, given the Virgin Mary statue he has been carrying. Echo is surprised and demands to see the statue. Claire tells Echo it's just a statue, but he breaks open the statue and shows Claire the heroine inside. Charlie denies he knew what was in the statue, but Claire doubts him. Echo demands that Charlie take him to the plane where he found the statue. Charlie takes him to a tree and claims that he found the statue under the tree. Echo becomes upset and demands that Charlie take him to the plane. And Charlie notices the scriptures on the stick Echo carries. Echo got real serious real fast. He was like, mm-mm.

SPEAKER_01 10:07

I'm not having shit. Okay, take me to the plane. I love the calm echo, the, you know, because it's something he's trustworthy, it's something about him that that makes you calm and makes you trust him. And I and you wanna you wanna follow where he goes. But old Mr. Echo? What? Like I love watching that. I love to see the snippets of the man he became during the war in Nigeria that he was a part of. He's like the he's I find he is one of the characters, is probably one of the most perfect personification of being in yang that I enjoy watching.

SPEAKER_03 10:50

When they were going and Charlie thought he was cute, and Echo is like, what? What did I say?

SPEAKER_01 10:58

No, no, because you were Charlie thought he was cute. I was like, yeah, yeah, it was funny because I was thinking the same thing.

SPEAKER_03 11:05

Yeah, he's like, Oh, yeah, I found it right here under this tree. And Echo is like, Echo really wanted to be like, Stop fucking with me. Echo was like, take me to the plane, and that's when Charlie was like, Oh shit, he knows, like, he knows. And um, and then when they were talking about when Charlie was bitching at him about why did he tell Claire, and he's like, Well, I didn't want her to get the wrong idea, and he's like, Oh, but if you knew what was inside, then what was the wrong idea?

SPEAKER_01 11:34

Idea, if you did no, right. So you can't fuck with him, you can't get whatever on him. I'm not romanticizing his life at all. But reality is any position of power, whether it's legal or illegal, murder, whatever it is, you have to to be good at what you do. I hate to say this, you have to have uh you had you need to be a master of logic and calling out bullshit. And apparently he was good at what he did at being a warlord or a drug lord or whatever it was that he was. Yeah. So he you can't you like at all those are skills, he has a skill. I yeah, but that was it. I'm bad with it.

SPEAKER_03 12:28

Just call me You're breaking up so bad. This is not good.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Is does it come out when you doing the recording? Yeah, as breaking up too. Damn. Do you need me to repeat something?

SPEAKER_03 12:44

No, not now, not yet. No, I mean we'll just keep going, but if anything, I'll just let you know. Meanwhile, Locke teaches Michael how to use the gun. But I have a question. Because in the last episode, or one of the last episodes, when Michael got in there and Jack wanted to go after everybody with guns, and he's like, You know how to use this? So Michael's like, Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

Did he give him a gun or a rifle? Did he give him a handgun? I feel like they were all rifles. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 13:49

You know maybe. I think so too. Yeah, I forgot about that part. And now Michael is like, oh, can you teach me how to use this? But and like, not for nothing though, because it's one thing if Michael was trying to get over on Locke, but Locke was there when it happened.

SPEAKER_01 14:07

So I have I wanna I wanna I wanna I have a thought on that. I don't know if you wanna wait to end it. I don't even want to do it now. It's up to you. I think um Michael took I think he was trying to get I think it was recognition on his part. He was trying to see what's what's all in there. Like I think he used opportunity. I think the difference between I can sh I know how to like shoot the gun and get it to work as opposed to I want to be able to shoot this and use the equation against you know that makes sense. It's like I need to know what the fuck I'm doing, right? Maybe and I also think he was trying to do some reconnaissance work, like what's all in there? What like how do I get in there, what's in there, what's yeah, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 15:04

Yeah, I mean that that can definitely be it too.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

Oh maybe the writers forgot. It could be something as simple as that. The writers forgot what they wrote in the beginning of the episode.

SPEAKER_03 15:16

But I I have I also have another theory, so we'll get there. Okay?

SPEAKER_00 15:23

Um wait with baited breath.

SPEAKER_03 15:27

Michael asks Kate if he can have her shift at the computer. She agrees. Michael types a message to Walt, but the computer won't take any input. It comes on by itself displaying dad. It asks Michael it sorry it asks if Michael is alone, but before he can say any more, Jack arrives. Jack talks to Michael saying that everyone cares about Walt, and as soon as they can, they will go bring him back. When Jack walks behind Michael on his way out, the conversation has disappeared from the monitor. Isn't this way too convenient?

SPEAKER_01 16:07

Okay, everything about this show is fucking convenient. Let's be real. Okay. But yeah, it it that's what ignores me about this show. And I'll get to that's actually in my notes for today's conversation.

SPEAKER_03 16:19

Okay. Charlie takes Echo further into the jungle, complaining that Echo ruined his relationship with Claire, and Mr. Echo shouldn't judge him because it was his brother that got him addicted to heroin. Echo and Charlie find a parachute in a tree which leads to the corpse of the Nigerian man dressed as a priest that Boone and Locke had found. He opens the man's shirt. The dead man wears no cross, but instead has a gold tooth, which Echo touches. When he realizes it's not his brother, he says a prayer, telling Charlie the man saved his life. Charlie loses his way, and Mr. Echo tells him to climb a tree. Charlie reluctantly obliges. While he is in the tree, there are explosions in the jungle and the black smoke that Jack Locke and Kate once saw arrives. Mr. Echo stands his ground, despite Charlie telling him to run. The black smoke approaches Echo. Echo stares fearlessly at the cloud for m for a few moments, and as the camera passes through the cloud, there is a chattering noise. There are dark images flashing inside the cloud, images which are from Echo's past. The man he shot, his mother, his brother, a church, and a crucifix. The black smoke pulls back and disappears. Did you catch that when you were watching it? The images? It's a little bit yeah, it's a little bit hard to see, but yeah. Echo and Charlie find the plane. Echo finds another corpse inside, opens its shirt, finds the cross around the corpse's neck, and weeps. Echo tells Charlie that the man inside is his brother. He gives Charlie a Virgin Mary statue for the one I broke. Charlie asks Echo if he is in fact a priest himself. Echo pauses, then smiles softly and puts the cross around his neck. Yes, he replies, I am. He burns the plane, reciting Psalm twenty three from the Old Testament. Charlie joins him in the recitation. At the beach camp, Kate gives Sawyer a haircut. Jen introduces son to Anna Lucia and presents her with the fish, and Hurley helps Libby set up shelter, both glancing flirtatiously at each other. Finally, Charlie apologizes to Claire, but Claire tells him to leave her and Aaron alone. She did the island version of kicking his shit to the curb. Right? She said to the left.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

I have so many notes on this fucking episode. I got a lot of notes of the show on this episode. I don't know. Where do we start, lady?

SPEAKER_03 19:03

Hold on, hold on, let me finish.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

Oh, I thought I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_03 19:07

No, it's fine.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

I got like one more sentence.

SPEAKER_03 19:09

Oh, okay. Charlie goes into the jungle and opens a hiding place to reveal that he has seven additional Virgin Mary statues. He places the one that Mr. Eccle gave him with the other seven. Okay, now I'm done. Where do you want to start?

SPEAKER_01 19:29

Okay, so I at the beginning of the episode, I remember thinking, it's so it's so funny. I feel like right now in this moment, I always knew that Echo was connected to the plane. That's why, like in my memory, if you were to ask me, I would have like, oh yeah, they always knew. But I see in my notes, I wrote, what the fuck? Echo knows about the plane slash drugs? I was like, oh. That's at the beginning of the on island story. I'm like, so wait, I didn't always know that. It's just funny how your mind works. Like you have like little snippets of supposition. They were right. You're like, okay, I always know I always know that you should. It was a guess, but you happen to be right. But it's kind of weird. I'm looking at my notes, I'm like, wait, I I didn't know my my thoughts are like it's here. So you're gonna have to like guide me because my notes are kind of all this is a hard episode of in the sense that my notes on let's say the flashback directly coincide at the present time, and vice versa. So I really don't know where to start. You know what I mean? That makes sense, yeah. They seem to be more tightly in ingrained my thoughts. Like my thoughts on one has to do with what's happening on the island, because it's weird. As opposed to the other episodes we talk about. I can talk about the flashbacks separately than what's happening. You know, this they make they're together, but you could talk about them separately. This episode, you can't. Does that make sense in an Agnes kind of way?

SPEAKER_03 21:10

Definitely in an Agnes kind of way. I'm not I'm not a hundred percent sure in any other kind of way.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

I just feel like like the flashback and then and the island episode um, they're just really cool with the one without talking about the other, that might no anybody.

SPEAKER_03 21:31

It's just that you're um you're breaking up a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

Um oh, I'm insulating. I like thinking that kind of question because I'm a loss.

SPEAKER_03 21:47

I think for me there's two huge themes, okay? The first one being bigger than the second one. The first one is the brother theme. Moses and Aaron. Yes. Yes, but you also have Echo with Charlie who have who have both complicated brother relationships involving drugs.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

Right, because when this when um probably goes um it's my brother's It's it's but whatever. My brother did this, or the brother did this. Whatever he said about the brother. If Echo had a second where he's like, wait, he thought he was like him and his brother.

SPEAKER_03 22:37

But he blamed his brother for getting him into the drugs.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

Right.

SPEAKER_03 22:42

Whereas But and then versus Echo, who was the one who was pushing the drugs, but at the same time did everything that he could to protect his brother.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

He did. He really, really did. Like he would have been, because if things happened differently, it would have been it honestly would have been switched. I honestly believe it Yimmy would have been the one, and X would have been the priest. Because they was, you know, the fact that you always wonder what if something different happened, would my life be totally different? I think this is a situation where it would have been a complete swap. Not you know, they would both have the same upbringing. And you know, with the and within the missionary in the in the in the church. So it's wild. It's just it's it's funny. You're like, wow, this really could have been exactly yeah, it could have been complete and and the church would be like no no go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 23:42

No, I was gonna say, and and the the church plays a role in the two set well and then again in the three sets because remember when Aaron was first given his name and somebody said, Oh, what does it mean? And I was like, Don't worry about it, we'll get there. Because I I knew that this was gonna come up, and so then you have this theme of Aaron, who's Moses' brother, who maybe was never good enough, right? Because like, how do you how do you live up to like I think it was Charlie who was making a joke, or maybe it was Claire, I don't remember, saying, like, oh, it must have been tough to live up to your brother. And so Aaron as the little brother living up to Moses, but then Echo is like, but Aaron is actually the one who spoke for him, and so then you have this theme of you know, Aaron and Moses. I mean, it doesn't get any more church Bible than that, right? But right, um, and then you have Echo and Yemi, and Echo being the older brother who you know is is the the figure, the figurehead, like the Moses, and Yemi, who is the one who's always trying to be on the righteous path, and then versus Charlie and Liam. Liam is the older brother, he's the front man, he's you know, but Charlie didn't live up to him, but still, in a sense, had to be the one who had his head on straight, and they were obviously religious because you see them in a church, especially Charlie.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

Charlie was more so religious than his brother was. I find that the yes for me to be such a heathen, this is a yeah. Um, and then Charlie, oh no, go ahead. No, no, no, I was gonna say off, so finish.

SPEAKER_03 25:53

Like you just see this this overall theme with how the brothers, the relationship between the brothers and how even in different circumstances, it tends to be the same theme from older brother to younger brother.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 26:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

Well, we're yeah, it's all the because yeah, I mean, they there's slightly different stories, but they're still the same story. And talking about Charlie, when he's talking to Claire, that we know what's going on with Charlie, the statue, but it's iron, it's funny, not funny how, but it's funny how addicts make the best liars. Because even though we we know what's really going on, we're still like, yo, that could be believed, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 26:44

He's got a lot of practice, right? I mean, it's not it's not a it's not a bad thought, right? Like you're stranded on this island, there's monsters and polar bears, and you find a Virgin Mary statue, and you think it might not be the worst thing to have around. Like, what's the harm?

SPEAKER_01 26:59

Right.

SPEAKER_03 27:00

You know, is there a downside?

SPEAKER_01 27:02

Oh he was so smooth with it. I was like, uh, I'm never trusting anybody. Well, I don't trust anyone to begin with, but still, but he has lots like skills. My goal.

SPEAKER_03 27:14

So the other thing that I wanted to bring up, do you remember in the in the last episode? I think it was the last episode when Locke was doing the crossword puzzle, and there was some clue about like Gilgamesh. Yes, and and we compared Locke and Echo.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

Correct.

SPEAKER_03 27:37

It was it was one of the last couple of episodes. Anyway. Um, Echo comes face to face with the smoke monster. Who's the only other person who has done that and lived to tell about it?

SPEAKER_01 27:52

Mr. Locke, my man Loc.

SPEAKER_00 27:55

Hi, Terry.

SPEAKER_03 27:59

So there we go, seeing an yet another similarity between these two characters in their in their belief in faith and fate. But even though Echo says don't mistake coincidence for fate. So is that a message to us? Because here we are saying, oh, look, but the both of them, and you know, is that fate that they're both here on this island? And you know, is that is that a message for us, Locke telling us it could be just a coincidence, it's not fate.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

I think okay, this is the part of the show that drives me nutsy cuckoo because one can find connections with anything, whether it's connection or not. And the show, like with like the show itself drives me fucking crazy because what are the odds that the fucking this dude echoes going on the same island deserted where his brother crashed? Like, come the fuck on, man. Like, some of this shit is just like all right, all these coincidences. Obviously, this this is leading to a big um what's the word I'm looking for? Plot twist in the business. Like it's just it does it's so nonsensical to me, it bothers me. So until like it pisses me off. I'm like, come on, like what's odds? So until I get to that plot twist in the series that explains all of it, I'm gonna be aggravated because it's like, come on. But that's yeah, and then him and the monster. I feel like the smoke monster. I feel like that's the monster. I feel like when you meet the smoke monster, it's judging you. You're judging, I think it's yourself. I feel like it's not the smoke monster per se, it's not this extra, it's not a separate entity. I think it's like you judging yourself. I feel like it's not like you're at the moment. This the smoke monster monster is not a it's not like the island, it's not a separate entity. I feel like the smoke monster is you judging yourself. It's like you're looking in the mirror, you're looking at your soul, you're looking at something, like you're like you're meeting your fate. So you're talking like I feel like you're like it's like I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing that the smoke monster left. I don't know. But I feel like it's not like I don't think it's an island per se judging you. I think it's like when you're going to like quote unquote meet meet your maker and you look at your life and you look at I think this is the lost version of you immediately look at yourself and look at your life and looking at what you are. I hate when you do that. I feel like I stepped into some shit and you're not telling me.

SPEAKER_03 31:13

No, I just know that you hate when somebody says interesting. So I don't honestly, I don't even know what to do with that theory of yours, so that I don't know how to respond to you because when they say interesting, they're more like, see, my racist ransomed right.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

That's okay.

SPEAKER_03 31:34

Yeah, if if you if your name is beep, but not me. When I say interesting, it's because it's because either A whatever you just said was a clusterfuck, and I just don't know how to respond to it. And I don't want to give you and I don't want to like you know just engage further, or B you could be on the mark and I want to keep going.

SPEAKER_01 32:05

I feel like in this situation, it's probably the former, but we're gonna go interesting.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

I hate you.

SPEAKER_03 32:15

Why not? Do you want to do trivia?

SPEAKER_01 32:22

I feel let me go to my I think I said everything I um oh we can still go over any notes, but I'll just start reading trivia. Oh, would okay, there's one of those two things. When Michael shot the like shot the was it menace? I don't remember ranch dressing. Ranch dressing. I knew it was a he was so proud by himself, it was endearing. It was like, oh, he's like, I did it. I feel like it was a thought the explorer moment.

SPEAKER_03 33:00

As somebody who loves ranch dressing, like what a waste, man.

SPEAKER_01 33:04

But you know what? Off topic, but ranch dressing here is a huge thing in Wisconsin. Like they put ranch dressing on everything. They're like, oh, got that side of ranch. Uh like it's not like dressing. Um, and I love that and his wife welcomed Anna Lucia. Like, that was hot felt to me. The like giving her the fish.

SPEAKER_03 33:26

Yeah, I was like, Chimia. This episode ended nearly a year and a half of speculation about the nature of the monster when it finally made its first full appearance.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

Dude, literally answering speculation is giving you more speculations. But anyway, because she saw, yeah, she saw what it was. Right. When echo what?

SPEAKER_03 33:56

Not not like that. Not really. Like we saw it um I think the only other time that we really saw it was in the season finale in one of the Exodus episodes when it was like um going after Locke, I think. But maybe but I think that that was it. And it wasn't like this.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

When Echo this is another situation where I feel like something that I were just told, I feel like we've been told already. It's just weird. I feel like I'm gonna find myself.

SPEAKER_03 34:41

When Echo stares down the monster, many faces from his past are visible inside the smoke when freeze-framed.

SPEAKER_00 34:50

I mean Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:56

Okay. All of Echo's African flashbacks are shot with a yellow tinted lens to stim to simulate the dusty environment of Nigeria.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

Even though the line of the 20 No, I was gonna say I find that a lot of movies and TV shows, they use a yellow lens when they're have when they're either taping in Africa or that when they that the scene is in any country in Africa. I feel like a lot of movies use that yellow lens.

SPEAKER_03 35:30

Because everything is shot in Hawaii. So when they have to make it look like Korea or Africa, I guess they have to try to, you know, do different tricks.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

Uh I know I lost the thing, but I feel like I was gonna say I don't know if I I went kind of wonky, but like a lot of movies, period. That just lost.

SPEAKER_03 35:49

They all I understood what you meant.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

Oh, I oh I don't know if it went through or not because I just got a message that I had poor quality, so I don't know if you heard me.

SPEAKER_03 35:57

Um even though the line of the 23rd Psalm that Echo recites with Charlie is supposed to be the valley of the shadow of death. Both clearly say the shadow of the valley of death. When the writers created this scene, they made that mistake, but upon reflection believed that the error was appropriate as Echo was never a proper priest.

SPEAKER_01 36:21

So they fucked up with their works anyway. Yep. Okay. So that goes back to my that goes back to my thought process about the whole fucking series. Not because of the I'm sure a lot of this stuff is like a oops, or oh, it's a happy accident.

SPEAKER_03 36:36

At the end, when Charlie says when Charlie asks Echo if he is a priest, and Echo says yes, why do you think he said yes?

unknown 36:49

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 36:49

Do you think it was because he signed because Yemi signed the papers, so technically, yeah, he's a priest? Or no, was it something more?

SPEAKER_01 36:57

I think he felt it started well can let's start off with he was raised in a Catholic religion. And through s circumstances beyond his control, if that wasn't gonna happen, he still I think he had hopes to be to stay in the religion, whether become a priest or not. I think as a child that I was still like his goal. I think I I feel that that was something he wanted to do anyway. So this is the opportunity. I'm gonna re I'm gonna go back to the life that I could I thought I could have had if I wasn't, you know, taken by the okay. I had a different take. Oh, so I think so so obviously he was confused as a priest before the island, and I think one can assume he lived as a priest for some time at least, you know, maybe just to get out, but he that was his cover for at least some time. I don't know how long between the military and him landing, him crashing the island. I don't know what the time frame was for that. Um, so at least for one moment in history, he was a priest and he lived his life. Obviously, he lived his life since that moment. And the difference because he said he stopped killing, like this person that he killed on the island was a he hadn't he promised him not to kill anymore until that person on the island. He he did that 40 days of I can't think of the word. So like a penance, right? So obviously there was some time where he kind of re-founded his religion and he lived as a priest, and I think this him saying goodbye to his brother was you know what? Yeah, I'm going to do what I can do to be man that I wasn't for you. I'm gonna be the priest, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm I refined my religion to be the man that I could have been, or you wanted to be, and then and then I lost. So this is me starting my whole new life again. So I think he just actually verbalized, yes, this is the new me. Yes, I'm a priest. So I know that took a lot of wording to say a simple thing, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:16

I don't I I just um for me it was a little simpler. I just felt like um he wanted to honor Yemi. And oh that's too just just because um okay, so no matter which way you look at it, whether it was because he found Yemi, maybe he thought that this was a sign and Yemi gave his life to save him, he can honor Yemi by carrying on what what Yemi would have done because that was more honorable. And had he and the same thing, like had he become a priest um while still in Nigeria, it was still to honor Yemi because Yemi got in the plane to save his life.

SPEAKER_01 40:10

So you just said I said and concise accurate words, perfect. I'm bad. I told you call me Brooke today. Okay. It is babbling, bro. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 40:23

But it's the beach craft that Lock and Boone found turned out to be carrying Echo's brother Yemi, and Echo himself was supposed to be on it instead. That's so strange when you think about it like that. Like they found the plane, and it should have been Echo in there. And he ends up that's another anyway, like finding the plane that he should have been on.

SPEAKER_01 40:52

It drives me crazy.

SPEAKER_03 40:54

And then Charlie protests that it was his brother's fault that he started taking heroin.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

Similarly, that's what I was seeing that I was I couldn't get the words. He goes, it's my it was his brother's fault. And Echo looked at him like him. So yeah, that was it.

SPEAKER_03 41:14

And then it says, um, similarly, we learned that Echo's induction into a life of crime was a direct consequence of his brother's of his own brother's hesitation. So like there is that little common thread where for different reasons, both of them ended up having affiliation with drugs because of their brothers.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

Right.

SPEAKER_03 41:35

Charlie was doing it because of his brother, and Echo was selling it to save his brother's life, basically.

SPEAKER_01 41:42

I think you know, yeah, he was doing it to save his brother's life. He also, it was also convenient for him too. It was a win-win situation. Yeah, so I mean, I don't think I yeah, I think it was both situations. Because he went to his brother, like he wouldn't have to have he wouldn't have to save his brother if he didn't go with him with with the plan to begin with. He went to him because he that was his plan to begin with, to help his brother to help him. Echo went to his brother went to Yemi for help with the missionaries to get the drugs. No, but I statues wasn't part of it yet. But I like to help his brother.

SPEAKER_03 42:21

I was talking about when Yemi was a kid. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. I thought you meant with the drug, yes. No, he stepped in to save Yemi because he he probably figured like if he didn't do it, they would just kill him.

SPEAKER_01 42:35

Right, yeah, okay. I forgot about that. I we I was talking about the whole yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:41

The title, the 23rd Psalm, which is kind of obvious. Yeah. Um and that's also the the what they recite, you know, in prayer.

SPEAKER_01 42:53

And I guess it's kind of like an overall encompassing theme because when you think about what was happening um in his flashback, you know, with the whole like he went what he went from a warlord to then trying to be righteous because now he has God and then um as they're on the island, I mean this is if this isn't the the valley of the shadow of death, then I don't know what is because I think their whole like his whole life was the valley of shadow of death. Like his life once the the m the I don't know how to say rebels, but once they took him, his life was a valley literally he was the warlord of the valley of the shadow of death.

SPEAKER_03 43:49

And it's like once again, in Nigeria and then now on the island, it's like he has a second chance because of his faith. You know what I mean? Like he God you could you could look at it like that, like God saved him because he became a priest, even if it was only on paper, he became a priest and his life was saved. He didn't get on that plane, and the military gave him the benefit of the doubt because he was dressed as a priest, and then he's starting to walk the righteous path. As he sees it on the island, and now he has come back, he has finds his brother, he has found his brother, and you know, he lived like he lived, he survived the plane crash, he found his brother, you know. So I think that it's just kind of like his journey for lack of a better no, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 44:48

Yeah, perfect. No, that's the perfect wording. Thanks. Oh, you're welcome. Anything else? On this episode, I think we covered it.

SPEAKER_03 45:00

Okay. Alright, well, that'll do it for this episode. Stay tuned next week for the actually, if you haven't noticed already, we are trying to do a uh, you know, quarantine COVID, whatever you want to call it, and we've been releasing the episodes more often just because you know we don't we don't really have a lot of other stuff to do. But um, so the next time, so in a few days, um, it'll be the hunting party, which is a Jack episode. Any thoughts on that before we get into it?

SPEAKER_01 45:42

Um, no, I think I'm gonna hold my thoughts until the next episode. Ah, make you suffer. The look she gave me was a total fuck you look.

SPEAKER_03 45:54

I love it because I'm thinking about the listeners who want to hear your crazy thoughts so that they can laugh when you're wrong. Oh, owch.

SPEAKER_01 46:06

I thought I think the listeners are tired of hearing my my rambling for this episode.

SPEAKER_03 46:10

What do you want to learn about Jack? Anything that you want to learn?

SPEAKER_01 46:14

I want to know what happened with his wife. I want to know what happened. Yeah, that's all I think. That's the only thing about him that I kind of want to know about. Like, dude, what the fuck did you do?

SPEAKER_03 46:27

Why okay, why does it have to be that he did something?

SPEAKER_01 46:31

Based on his character, not the character Jack, but based on his the character's personality and the the character's character traits. Um I feel like I I feel like he did something. I don't know. I don't know. Okay, so what do you mean? Because I don't like him. I don't like him. That's just that's it. It's purely bias opinion. Fine. Fine. He's always wrong.

SPEAKER_03 46:55

If he did something, what did he do?

SPEAKER_01 46:58

I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 46:59

You think maybe he beat her?

SPEAKER_01 47:01

Yeah, no, I don't think it's anything that obvious. I think Jack is I think his thing he's more his more subtle nuance with his bad traits. He's fine.

SPEAKER_03 47:15

We're done. Interesting. So while you wait for the next episode, we'd appreciate it if you could help us out by supporting the show. We can be found at patreon.com slash saspod. And if that's not the right choice for you, you can connect with us on social media. You can email us or call us. And thank you so much for listening. Please don't drink and drive. You can rate, review, and subscribe to the show. That helps also. You can you can show some love for our sponsors because that will help. And until next time, I'm Lisa.

SPEAKER_01 47:53

And I'm Agnes.

SPEAKER_03 47:55

And we are out of here.

unknown 47:57

Peace.