LOST The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Hey and welcome to this episode of Assassin's Sips. Today we are gonna talk about season five's The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham. I'm Lisa.

SPEAKER_04 0:21

And I'm Agnes.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

And I am sipping on some red wine.

SPEAKER_04 0:30

You are being such a good girl on a Sunday morning. I am drinking Dos Eckies. It's Jesus juice. Jesus juice. Well, I'm not drinking Jesus juice at all.

SPEAKER_00 0:39

I had to go to church. So you know, bring the church to me.

SPEAKER_04 0:42

Bring the church to you. You know, God said where you are. No, he's there.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Do you hold on? Do you do you hear that? Do you hear that? It's all the angry letters. Oh wait, we finally got mail. No, let me go. Mail time. We just got a letter. We just got a letter. Oh my god. All right. Anyway, this is what happens when you drink on an empty stomach. I got chicken wings waiting for me after this.

SPEAKER_04 1:17

And a lasagna and garlic bread and salad.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

Okay, all right, enough. I'm already hungry.

SPEAKER_04 1:24

I'm an amazing cook on top of being an exceptional baker. I know. I I'm a unicorn.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Okay, what are you drinking?

SPEAKER_04 1:32

I'm single.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

Oh, you said dosekies.

SPEAKER_04 1:34

Dos equis, but I also before like I had to finish my cream soda and crown vanilla. So I had both of them.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Try that.

SPEAKER_04 1:42

It's actually, yeah, right. It's good. It was really, really good. Really, really good. So I had both drinks because I didn't know how long I'm gonna be here recording, and I don't know if I want to get up multiple times.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Okay, fair.

SPEAKER_04 1:54

But you know, I'm perfectly willing to get up and get more and do a refill. I'm okay with that. I will take one for the team.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

You got any hot takes from the episode?

SPEAKER_04 2:05

Okay, so my only hot take was not surprised at the least.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

Not surprised at what?

SPEAKER_04 2:12

Anything that happened in the episode. I'm like, ah, that's on brand.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

Oh, okay. Not surprised. Nope, sounds about right. So when the episode opens, it opens on the island. And it opens as Caesar is going through Ben's office in the Hydra, Hydra station. He sees a 1954 Life magazine with a cover story of a hydrogen bomb. He also finds a file that contains one of Danielle Rousseau's maps, one of the pages from Daniel Faraday's journal, and Daniel's map. Danielle and Daniel.

unknown 2:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

Daniel's map has mysteriously been augmented to include hieroglyphs since the last time it was seen. He comes across a loaded gun and he hides it in his bag. Ilana comes in and asks if he found anything, and he says no. But then when she presses him, he's like, Oh, look, a flashlight. You want it? Caesar is up to something.

SPEAKER_04 3:23

I feel like these groups, this group, the the new Lost group, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

The new Losties.

SPEAKER_04 3:36

The new Losties 2.0 Losties 2.0. That's what I'm calling that. Losties 2.0.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 3:41

And and watching this episode actually solidified a thought process for me.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Okay, do tell me.

SPEAKER_04 3:48

Oh, I can tell you.

SPEAKER_00 3:49

No, you have to tell no because you're not gonna remember.

SPEAKER_04 3:51

Oh, that's right. Um no one I don't think anyone dies dies on this island. Okay, even the dead people that were like Christian. Yes, his body was in the you know, he was dead, but obviously he was brought into the realm of the island. The weirdness of so I don't think he's dead, dead. Um, I feel like no one dies on this island. It's kind of weird. Christian's not dead, unless you I don't know, it's just weird. I mean, we have tons of people that actually did die and never came back, but maybe you have maybe you come on the island dead or injured, it brings you back. But of course, you died on the island. I don't fucking know. It's just weird because Claire's not dead dead, but anyway, and then to see the next scene, which you're gonna get into, I'm like, uh-huh. See, my wild, crazy thought wasn't so wild and crazy. Okay, she's looking at me like, get off the drugs, Agnes. Stop drinking so much, maybe drink some more, but something needs to give. She's concerned about my well-being people.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

Ilana tells him that there's a man on a beach, on the beach, sorry, in a suit who was not on the plane. On the way back to the flight 316 survivors camp, Ilana and Caesar walk on a gravel path. The plane sits on the path at an angle, but it's intact. When they arrive at the camp, they meet a man who is wearing an Ajira Airways blanket over his head like the hood. And he introduces himself as John Locke. He's just sitting there in the circle in the blanket, like when they're all around him, and you're like, okay, like okay.

SPEAKER_04 5:43

It's on brand. Alright, when we post this episode and we share it on Instagram, can we tag my my buddy Terry O'Quinn?

SPEAKER_00 5:57

I don't even know if he's still on Instagram, but we could try.

SPEAKER_04 6:00

Okay, thanks, Mom.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

The following day, Locke stands at the edge of the surf, gazing toward the main island. Because remember, Hydra is separate. They're on Hydra.

SPEAKER_04 6:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Christian Shepherd's shoes lie in the sand nearby, and Alana walks up to him and introduces herself, and she offers him a mango. He muses that it may be the best mango he's ever tasted. And he looks so happy as he is like just biting into it.

SPEAKER_04 6:32

I know. It was just so natural. It's so just like pure unadulterated joy.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

Mm-hmm. Locke inquires about the two outrigger canoes which sit nearby on the shore. Alana says that the canoes were already there and that there had been a third one, but the pilot and a woman left in one of them during the night.

SPEAKER_04 6:54

We know who that was.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

Who was it?

SPEAKER_04 6:56

Jen Sun. Why keep calling her Jen Sun?

SPEAKER_00 6:59

Yes, yeah. Alana asks him why he's dressed so nicely, and he surmises that he was to be buried in the suit. He's like, Well, I don't know, but I can guess.

SPEAKER_04 7:11

I think that was funny. And I'm just as a watcher, I was glad that he was like able to like put things together piece like pieces together quickly. I'm like, oh thank god. Because I hate as a watcher, they draw shit out. I'm like, ah, you're killing me some else.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

He says he doesn't remember being on the plane, but he does remember dying. And she looks at him like he has 16 heads and she walks away.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

So you asked.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

I know. So at this, then we get to the like basically the flashbacks and the meat of the episode. We go back to the wheel chamber where he is turning the wheel, and then we see him wake up in Tunisia. You know, same place where Ben woke up.

SPEAKER_04 8:01

What is it with Tunisia? Like, why does it bring you back to Tunisia? Is that how the polar bear got there? Hmm. Wasn't they what well, didn't they find the polar bear remains in Tunisia or some part of the in that area?

SPEAKER_00 8:17

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 8:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 8:20

She's not wait, I'm just talking out my ass. You're over here being furtive and shit.

SPEAKER_00 8:27

I'm I'm trying to read.

SPEAKER_04 8:29

Yeah, my ass.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

He vomits upon arriving. He's laying in direct view of a surveillance camera. He repeatedly calls for help towards the camera to no avail. At night, he is recovered by a pickup truck full of men who roughly bring him to a poorly equipped rural hospital, arriving in the daytime. The doctor there reduces his open fracture and sets his leg while Matthew Abaddon watches from across the room. Locke passes out from the pain and is awakened by Charles Whidmore, who's sitting by his bed. Woodmore tells Locke that he has had a specialist flown in to do a better job of setting the leg. Woodmore relates how he was seventeen when he first met Locke on the island. Intrigued by the fact that Locke looks no different now than when they originally met over fifty years ago, for Whidmore anyway, he asks Locke how long it's been since he walked into the camp to speak to Richard. And Locke replies that it's only been four days. Locke confirms that the camera in the desert is Whidmore's, asking how Woodmore knew he would be there. Woodmore replies that's the exit. Woodmore explains that he was the leader of the others before being exiled by Ben. Hence, Locke should trust Whidmore as they have the same goals in mind for protecting the island. Woodmore assumes that Locke was exiled by Ben as well, but Locke corrects him saying that he left voluntarily to bring his friends back to the island. Locke mentions that Ben left the island before he did, and he questions why Widmore should want Locke and the others back on the island. Woodmore says there's a war coming, and if Locke's not back, the wrong side is going to win. If you had to pick a side right now, would it be Team Ben or Team Woodmore?

SPEAKER_04 10:32

Neither. They're both shady as fuck. Um I don't trust any of them. Um, but which poison do you drink? I I mean, you probably I mean, I would probably pick um Benjamin, because we're more dish and afraid of people to fucking blow up the island. So I mean, I mean, one poison you can possibly get you could you could survive with the antidote. The other poison, there is no antidote, so you're definitely dying.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

So, you know. Well, I think at this point, Ben is the devil you know.

SPEAKER_04 11:05

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

Because we we don't know all of him, but we know more of him.

SPEAKER_04 11:09

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

Yeah, I I can see that.

SPEAKER_04 11:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

Later during the daytime, Whidmore and Locke sit outside the hospital, and Whidmore tells Locke that he will help him find the Oceanic Six. He gives them dossiers on their locations as he has been keeping an extensive eye on them. He also offers Abaddon as a driver and introduces him to Locke. Whidmore concludes their meeting by giving Locke a large amount of money, a mobile phone. Wait, a mobile phone with which Whidmore can be contacted by dialing 2 3, and finally a Canadian passport with the identity Jeremy Bentham. Woodmore explains that Bentham was a 19th-century philosopher and that Whidmore chose the name to keep in theme with Locke's birth name. He's like, Well, your parents had a sense of humor.

SPEAKER_04 12:05

I'm glad that they actually like touched it? Yes, as opposed to just ignoring it as like, oh, it's an Easter egg. No, like we're gonna we're gonna fuck with you guys a little bit. I like that.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

Locke is skeptical of Whidmore's offer, but accepts the help. He and Abaddon drive off towards the airport to fly to Santo Domingo to find Saeed. Now we're in Santo Domingo. Said is seen helping to construct a school as part of a charity called Build Our World. A construction foreman alerts Said of Locke's presence. Locke speaks with him, but Said refuses to return. He explains that Ben had manipulated him for two years into protecting the rest of the Oceanic Six, and it was only by leaving the island that he finally got to marry Nadia, with whom he spent nine months before his before her death.

SPEAKER_04 13:00

Her murder.

SPEAKER_00 13:06

Sae questions if the only reason that Locke wants to return to the island is because he has nowhere else to go.

SPEAKER_04 13:13

I mean, that was kind of stupid. Like if he had nowhere else to go, he wouldn't leave. You know what I mean? I feel like so him that that was a stupid supposition. But yeah, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Before leaving, Locke tells Saeed that he can be contacted under the name Jeremy Bentham, staying at the Westerfield Hotel in Los Angeles, just in case Saeed ever changes his mind. Said mentions that John can always come back to Santo Domingo to find him, just in case Locke ever wants to do any real good in the world. Next up, New York, New York. City so nice they named it twice. Locke and Abaddon stop opposite a school in Uptown. Like how they write uptown New York. Okay. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 14:02

Sorry. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

Yeah, turn it off, Lisa, turn it off. Um while waiting, Locke asks Abaddon to locate Helen Norwood for him. Abaddon asks if she's an old girlfriend, a question to which Locke doesn't reply. As the school bell rings, Locke asks Abaddon to help him get out of the car. A group of students leave the school, and amongst them is Walt. Shocker. Locke waves to Walt, who promptly leaves his friends and crosses the street to talk to him. He asks why Walt isn't surprised to see him, and Walt explains that he'd been having dreams of Locke in a suit on the island, surrounded by people who wanted to hurt him. Locke says that it's good that they're just dreams. To which Walt gives him a nervous and confused look. Walt also asks about his father, whom he suspects of returning to the island after dropping out of contact for three years. Locke lies and tells Walt that the last he heard of Michael, he was on the freighter. I mean it's not really a lie, right? No, just I mean, because look, you um Jin was on the freighter.

SPEAKER_04 15:14

Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

So I mean, in theory, you don't know that.

SPEAKER_04 15:21

Even if he did know, I think it was a kind omission on his part.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

So Walt asks why Locke came to visit him, and Locke lies again, telling Walt that he wanted to make sure he was okay. When he really came to tell Walt that Michael died. After Walt leaves, Abazon asks why John didn't try to convince Walt to return. John answers by saying that he's been through enough and that he only needs to convince one of the oceanic six to return. And after that, the rest will follow. As the pair return to the car, Ben is revealed to have been watching them from across the street. Next up, Santa Rosa, California. When John first rolls up to Hurley in his wheelchair, Hurley is seen drawing a picture of an Egyptian sphinx. Hurley, completely nonchalant, asks why asks Locke why he is in a wheelchair, to which Locke replies that he fell down a hole. Hurley asks if that's how he died, assuming Locke is dead, as he had been having regular conversations with dead people. However, Hurley asks a nurse if he's talking to a man in a wheelchair, and she confirms, letting Hurley believe Locke is alive.

SPEAKER_04 16:50

And the fact that he freaked the fuck out of the live person was hysterical to me. And honestly, if you think about it, he's not wrong. He's live.

SPEAKER_02 17:00

People who are live would fuck with you first before be afraid of the living.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

He asks him how he got off the island, and Locke attempts to persuade Hurley to return to the island. The attempt fails when Hurley sees Abaddon in panics, refusing to have any more to do with either of them, insisting that that guy is evil. And Hurley recounts how Abaddon posed as an employee of Oceanic Airlines at Santa Rosa Hospital. After Locke returns to the car, he finally acknowledges that he recognizes Abaddon as the hospital orderly who originally told him to go on the walkabout. When Locke asks Abaddon what he really does for Whidmore, Abaddon says his job is to help people get to where they need to get to. Los Angeles. Locke is at Kate's house, who refuses to return in spite of the consequences to those still on the island. Kate tells Locke that she believes the only reason he wanted to stay on the island was because he didn't love anybody. He disagrees and talks about his relationship with Helen, which didn't work out because he was angry and obsessed. And Kate sarcastically replies, Look how far you've come. Locke leaves the house and promptly asks Abaddon about his quest to find Helen. Abaddon states that he hasn't found her, that perhaps she moved away or changed her name. And Locke gets angry. He's like, Oh, but you you you could find everybody else, but you can't find Helen because she changed her name.

SPEAKER_04 18:35

Yeah, right. That was kind he is he's not wrong.

SPEAKER_00 18:39

Right.

SPEAKER_04 18:41

Fucking Saeed in the middle of nowhere.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

But yeah, he on a roof in in fucking Dominican Republic, but like, yeah, no, he could find him. Um next up, Santa Monica. Locke and Abaddon are in a cemetery. They're standing at the gravestone memorializing Helen, who died on 4-8, 2006. Abaddon states that she died of a brain aneurysm. John laments that Helen loved him, and if he had stayed, they would have been together. Abaddon states that it wouldn't change anything. She'd still be dead. But Locke seems unconvinced. Abaddon reasons that Helen is where she is supposed to be, and that Locke is destined to end up on the island. Locke questions whether he believes that everything is predetermined and that he doesn't have a choice. Abaddon asks whether Richard Alpert's prediction that Locke must die is predetermined or whether it's a choice. And Locke, who's confused, wonders aloud how it could possibly be his choice to die. As Abaddon is loading John's wheelchair into the car's trunk, he is shot three times by an unseen assailant. Locke climbs hurriedly into the driver's seat in a blind panic and recklessly drives away. Ultimately driving through a red light and is struck by two cars at the intersection. He's knocked unconscious by the impact. Who had not seen this coming? That he wakes up in Jack's hospital.

SPEAKER_04 20:25

I mean, because because there's only one hospital in the entire state of California. I know.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

He was like in the express lane to go see Jack.

SPEAKER_04 20:32

Right. You're like, okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

You got a disheveled Jack sitting next to him in the hospital room. Loc asks how Jack found him, and Jack is like, well, you're in a car accident and you were brought to the hospital and you found me, pretty much. Locke says it's fate, and Jack says, Mmm, it's a coincidence. And Locke is not happy. Because Jack refuses to accept that it's their destiny to return. And Locke asks Loc to seriously question whether or not he is truly special as as you know as he believes. Jack goes to leave, but Loc stops him, saying, His father says hi. Jack is like, wait, what? Having ruled Christian out as Saeed's father or Hurley's father, Jack states that Christian died three years ago in Australia. But Locke says, he didn't look dead to me. Locke implores Jack to come back to the island with him as he's the only one that the others will follow. I mean, not for nothing though. Right? I get it. Not a bad deduction on Locke's part.

SPEAKER_04 21:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:51

But had that been my father saying, you know, tell whatever I said hi, I mean, obviously, like daughters. Not son, but you would have gone to Saeed or Hurley and been like your father way before you would have ever gotten to me, been like that doesn't make sense, or my mother.

SPEAKER_04 22:12

That would have been right.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

The the real world is is just not so like cut and dry.

SPEAKER_04 22:20

Unintended. Yes. Yes. I mean, at the at the very least, I mean, at least you you and your father like closer on the color palette.

SPEAKER_00 22:32

I mean, we do resemble each other, but we just if if you didn't know any, like you wouldn't know that's his thing. You know, like you just right?

SPEAKER_01 22:40

Like I think that's so funny now that you mentioned I'm just mentioning everyone, like because your daughter, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:47

Because you know, like you get it growing up.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Totally get it.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

You know, no one's ever no one ever assumes that your parent is your parent.

SPEAKER_04 22:58

No, right.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

I grew up with that my whole life. My my well, my dad and my sister, nobody ever like looked at us and assumed we were related. It was always the opposite. They were like, is that your friend?

SPEAKER_05 23:15

Like, because my sister, same parents?

SPEAKER_04 23:22

Yes. I don't know what's worse. That or people say that me and my brother look alike. Me and my brother look nothing alike. And I'm trying to like, I don't see we don't have the same, like taking it like bit by bit, we don't have the same features. Never mind the coloring. You take away break it down, chins, no, at least you both have the same complexion. No, he's much lighter than I am. Yeah, but well, at least close on the spectrum.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

I mean, compared to what I have.

SPEAKER_04 23:49

People like you guys look just alike. What the fuck are you smoking?

SPEAKER_00 23:52

No, you don't look just alike, but I do see the family resemblance. Maybe I see it because, but right, because I know I've seen what your mom looks like, I've seen what your dad looks like, you see a little bit of your daughter and your grandkids, so I see the big picture how it spans.

SPEAKER_03 24:10

But people who just see both of us individually, no, off the drugs.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

Oh, people people used to say that, like when my father was married to Edna, and she would take us places, just like picking me place. Oh, you oh, you look like you know, oh, she looks like you, oh, you look like your mom. That's funny. My mom's you have never seen. That's not my mom. I'm not related to her.

SPEAKER_04 24:34

I feel like people just talk to hear themselves talk. Because I'm the first one to say, I don't see it. Like, I'm looking, I don't know. I don't see it.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

I think maybe it's just like they just want to offer a compliment, and so they don't say nothing. I I don't know. Like, that's my that's my most positive guess.

SPEAKER_04 24:52

I think that's what it is. They just want to play a comedy, something to say, and they don't mean anything by it, but sometimes there's like right, they have mistakes.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

This is not the 1950s, right? Things are different, there are lots of different family dynamics, tons of and most people are not gonna take offense, right? They're just like, but but but also I'm sure that today was not the day you wanted to know how your foot tasted.

SPEAKER_04 25:19

So maybe just but I think I think that like you said, there's a lot more there's a ton of different family dynamics out there these days, and I think the fact that a kid looks just like their parents kind of weird at this point because just because there's adoption, there's second marriages, there's fertility, there's so many.

SPEAKER_00 25:42

Can I tell you, I find it crazy that my kids all look alike. They do, like they look alike. They they didn't they get nothing from your side, they got different.

SPEAKER_04 25:54

They all look like from Alex's side of the family.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

I mean, aside from like a Maya who has fair complexion, fairer hair, other than that, she still looks like her sisters. The eyes, the shape of the eyes, very she she looks m the most different, but they all still like there's baby pictures where we're like, wait a minute. Which one is this? Which one is it? We have to look at the hair. That's the hair is the only way you could tell the difference.

SPEAKER_04 26:20

Oh, and then like sometimes your kids like an um Ameris and Linda, like telling my eye, I don't know who's who.

SPEAKER_00 26:28

Oh, and then and then don't bring Caitlin into the mix because then when she was little, we used to dress them all the same because they were all three very close in age, or all one, like one year after the other.

SPEAKER_04 26:40

So they're just all dressed up and chiplets.

SPEAKER_00 26:43

And yeah, and Caitlin and Amaris look very much alike. Yes, and so then you're like, oh, they're sisters, and then you're like, Yes, and then people would always think it's Caitlin and Amaris that are sisters, and I'm like, these two, not those two.

SPEAKER_04 26:57

But you know how they say cousins look more alike than siblings. It's not uncommon for cousins to look more alike than siblings because of the genetic, like right though, but they and they both take after their fathers, so yes, yes, you yeah, but I think it's hysterical, I think it's cute, it's funny. Genetics, genetics is cool, it's so fascinating, and sometimes just makes me laugh. Like if people just lose their shit, I'm like ha ha ha science confuses you. Ha ha. Um okay. I mean, there are some cases that you don't need, you don't need DNA test, though. There are some cases like, yeah, no, no, no, I've never seen I've never seen a kid look this much like their daddy. Then you okay? Yeah, I just got a sharp pain in my side. All right, let's before I die, let's finish the recordings that you have to leave in.

SPEAKER_00 28:02

Jack angrily tells Locke to leave him and the other survivors alone and that none of them were ever important. No, Jack. Later, nearly a month later, according to Jack Well, at least according to There's no place like home. In his room at the Westerfield Hotel, Locke writes his suicide note. He addresses it to Jack and places the envelope in his pocket. He throws the cell phone that Woodmore gave him into the trash, and he takes a length of extension cord, climbs a noose. Climbs a noose? What?

unknown 28:44

He's sorry.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

I heard that and took a second for it to click.

SPEAKER_00 28:49

I'm like it took a second for it to click on my end too, and I said it. I'm the one who tasted the word, and I should have known it tasted wrong. He takes a length of extension cord, ties a noose, climbs on the table, and is about to hang himself when there's a knock at the door. He ignores it, but after a few knocks and yells, Ben forces the door open and enters the room. Ben begs him to stop, saying that he only wants to help John. Ben admits to shooting Matthew Abaddon, as according to Ben, he's very dangerous as an employee of Whidmore and would have killed Locke if Ben hadn't killed him first. Whidmore, Ben claims, was using Locke to get back to the island and is the reason that Ben moved it in the first place. Ben then unties the extension cord, telling Locke that he's important. Ben offers his help to a distraught Locke, who is convinced he is incapable of being a leader. Ben tells Locke that Jack booked a return ticket from LA to Sydney, which proves Jack's change of attitude. As he helps Locke down, Ben tells Locke he has too much work to do to die and suggests contacting Sun. Loc says he promised Jen he wouldn't contact her and shows Ben the wedding ring that Jen gave him. Ben is surprised that Jen is alive. Locke states that he knows what he must do next. He must contact a woman who lives in Los Angeles named Eloise Hawking. At the mention of her name, Ben is visibly startled. Locke asks Ben if he if he knows the woman, and he quietly confirms their acquaintance. Suddenly, Ben strangles Locke with the discarded cord, eventually killing him. He later hangs Locke in a stage suicide and cleans the hotel room of his own fingerprints. Before leaving, he sees Jin he sees Jin's ring and takes it with him. Standing in the doorway, Ben says aloud, I'll miss you, John. I really will. You have any thoughts on on why? Like what why not just let him do it himself? Why he did it for him?

SPEAKER_04 31:02

Like what facilitated the change or fucking Okay, so my thoughts is like he knew he knew before he before they got here that Locke was gonna have to die. No, he didn't know. Richard told him that, right? Did Ben Jimin know that he Locke was gonna have to die?

SPEAKER_00 31:23

I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 31:24

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 31:25

But my point is this, right? Like you stopped him from committing suicide and then you killed him.

SPEAKER_04 31:31

I think when he stopped the community, I think to get what information he could get from him. But I kind of feel like maybe I wouldn't be surprised if Ben knows that once he gets back to the island he'll be alive. I wouldn't be surprised. Just like Christian, he knows who Christian was, and he's seen Christian. So he's because he he did research on.

SPEAKER_00 31:59

Are you sure he does he knows who he was?

SPEAKER_04 32:01

Didn't he do research on Jack? He did research on all of them.

SPEAKER_00 32:06

Look at you remembering stuff.

SPEAKER_04 32:08

Oh my god, holy shit. And I think Jacob, the mysterious Jacob, was at one point another, I don't know, Christian or Locke. Like he I think he was dead, but not dead. So I think part of I think Benjamin assumes getting everyone back to the island is gonna bring Locke back anyway.

SPEAKER_00 32:30

Okay. We go back to the island, like that's pretty much the end of the off-island stuff. We go back to the island and we see Locke visits Caesar in the office in the Hydra. He explains briefly about the Dharma initiative whose logo appears on the document that Caesar is reading. Caesar questions Locke's knowledge of this, and Locke replies that he's been on the island before for over 100 days. Caesar is confused but curious and asks Locke if he can explain what he witnessed on the plane, describing how he was sitting next to a heavyset man with curly hair who disappeared during a flash of light, and that other survivors of the crash also reported seeing passengers disappear. Realizing from his description that Caesar is talking about Hurley, Locke responds that he now has a better idea of how he came to be on the island. Locke asks whether everyone apart from the people who disappeared are accounted for. And Caesar says that they are, other than those who were injured in the crash. And he had asked Ilana, and she was the one who basically was like, um, I don't know, ask Caesar.

SPEAKER_04 34:14

Um, but why was Caesar happy? I feel like who is he? You know what I mean? It just weird, yeah. Didn't I tell you he was something? And you made me think I was crazy. So that's how I knew he was something. Because you try to like throw me off. You look at me. Your look, you look, you gave me the look. I'm like, he has to be something. You're like, why would you say that? Okay, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:37

Locke asks whether everyone apart from the people who disappeared are accounted for, and Caesar says that they are, other than those who were injured in the crash. He leads Locke to a makeshift infirmary where the injured passengers are resting. Locke moves between them, closely looking at each person. He seems disappointed until he comes to the last of the injured, who is revealed to be Ben, and Locke identifies him. Caesar's like, Do you know him? He's like, Yeah, he's the guy who killed me.

SPEAKER_04 35:09

Could you like as I'm standing here talking to you?

SPEAKER_00 35:13

I mean, could you just like imagine what it must be like? Like you just You're on a plane, you crash, but before you crash, there's a bright light, people disappear, and then you land unscathed onto this crazy island, find a man who wasn't on the plane, and then this man is like, Well, yeah, actually, I was on the plane, but I was in a coffin because I was dead. Yeah, and that's the guy who killed me.

SPEAKER_05 35:41

Killed me.

SPEAKER_00 35:42

I mean, this is like more fucking bonkers than Jin waking up and seeing Danielle Rousseau 16 years earlier.

SPEAKER_04 35:50

Like, I'd be like, Okay, someone pass me the blunt because something ain't right here.

SPEAKER_00 35:58

I think at that point, someone take the blunt away from me because I mean, considering well, you I don't smoke, so I'm like, something has to give.

SPEAKER_04 36:06

I like there's something wrong. Um, let me try something different because this ain't working.

SPEAKER_02 36:12

Sobarty is not working, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:16

But yeah, so can't can't wait to see Locke and Ben face off after this, huh?

SPEAKER_04 36:23

Dun dun dun.

SPEAKER_00 36:25

I I'm gonna tell you something, and it's not a spoiler, but I think you're gonna like the next episode.

SPEAKER_04 36:32

Okay, mom.

SPEAKER_00 36:33

I think you're gonna enjoy it. Okay, I think you're actually going to enjoy an episode of Lost.

SPEAKER_04 36:38

I enjoyed like about two episodes this series.

SPEAKER_00 36:43

You know, we're like almost a hundred episodes in, but you've liked two of them. So yes!

SPEAKER_04 36:50

We're making lead way. I mean, watch out now. I um I'm actually I'm terrified when it's my turn.

SPEAKER_00 36:59

Good, and as well, you should be.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

I have a feeling you're gonna love it though.

SPEAKER_00 37:03

Oh, I'm so gonna love it.

SPEAKER_01 37:06

You're gonna like my pick.

SPEAKER_00 37:09

Trivia. Trivia, trivia, trivia. The mango is considered by many in India to be the tree slash fruit of knowledge or life.

SPEAKER_04 37:24

As opposed to the apple.

SPEAKER_00 37:26

Well, if you ever had a mango, I I concur. But but I think that it's just the symbolism, the fact that La comes back from the dead and eats the mango, and it's like, wow, this is the best mango I've ever had.

SPEAKER_04 37:43

I mean, mangoes are the shit. I would take I would pick the the the fruit of knowledge being a mango over an apple any day. I'm sorry. Mangles are amazing.

SPEAKER_00 37:54

I mean, yeah. Locke meets with Walt in front of the fictional Southfields auction house, which is the auction company that auctioned the Black Rock journals to Charles Whidmore.

SPEAKER_04 38:10

Um the TV version of Southern Bees copy that. Just like um Hudson University is supposed to be Columbia. Yeah, it just cracks me up.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

There appears to be some discrepancy between the events depicted in this episode and those referenced in There's No Place Like Home, parts two and three. In the latter episode, Jack relates to Kate that Locke told him that a lot of bad things happened because the Oceanic Six left the island.

SPEAKER_04 38:43

Right.

SPEAKER_00 38:44

While talking to Ben, Jack also claimed that John Locke had told him that he was off the island. Similarly, Walt appeared to know Locke's alias of Jeremy Bentham. This is possibly a blooper or continuity error or a suggestion that Locke may have visited them both a second time, not shown in this episode.

SPEAKER_04 39:05

Or this longer than what was shown. But it never gets discussed again, so I'm assuming.

SPEAKER_00 39:15

Yeah. This marks the first time in the show's history in which Josh Holloway, Sawyer, has not appeared for two consecutive episodes.

SPEAKER_04 39:26

Unacceptable behavior. I don't appreciate this. I'm I'm going to protest a show that's no longer on the air. But this needs to be rectified.

SPEAKER_00 39:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 39:42

We learn. Listen, I gotta tell you, that angst of protesting because Josh owned this show that's no longer on the air, it's no more stupid than half the people are bitching about now.

SPEAKER_00 39:55

You know, you're not right.

SPEAKER_04 39:56

So go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 39:58

You were saying trivia Locke Locke discovers that Helen is dead. Walt, let's talk about Walt's dreams. I mean, that's kind of you know, they they whole they left the whole Walt is special thread hanging.

SPEAKER_04 40:17

Yeah. But I feel like this is Birds and shit, and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:21

This was their little attempt. And Walt and Loc had always had that kind of bond. Bond. But, you know, him having dreams about Locke wearing a suit and people around him and wanted to hurt him. I mean, it's kind of like on the nose.

SPEAKER_04 40:37

Just a little bit. I just hope no one comes to me with any dreams they've had about me. Good, bad, or indifferent. Don't dream about me.

SPEAKER_00 40:45

So then you're like, oh, who's Caesar? We don't know much about him or Alana, but we do know that Caesar found a gun and didn't tell her.

SPEAKER_04 40:56

Well, I'm assuming Alana is um law enforcement. Isn't she the one that brought Saeed in? So she's law enforcement of some sort. Yeah. But this is yeah, Lost Sees 2.0. I like that. Because they're like the Kate and the Jack where they're just taking over and being proactive and setting up the new Locke's.

SPEAKER_00 41:26

Each city that Locke and Abaddon travel to, with the exception of New York City, references saints or angels. Santo Domingo, Santa Monica, Santa Rosa, and Los Angeles. And then you've got New York where all the heathens live.

SPEAKER_04 41:44

I mean, New York is I'm just tired of people talking shit about my city, especially you've never been there before. You can't tell it's like wild wild west these days. The whole world's a wild, wild west, okay? I mean, so the whole the whole world's falling apart. New York is no worse, no worse than any other city out there. I mean, you know, never mind. Right, right, right. No worse than any city in the United States. So it just really pisses me off. I keep telling people, at least New York is not the birthplace of every Midwest serial killer there is, okay?

SPEAKER_00 42:25

If that's all we got, I think I think maybe we should not leave with that.

SPEAKER_04 42:31

I'm just saying, but they keep talking about oh, New York crime. And I'm like, per capita, well, I mean, we're doing a lot better than you are.

SPEAKER_00 42:36

That's the whole thing, per capita. And and people have to understand and know what per capita means before they can. Because I've done that.

SPEAKER_04 42:43

Like, per capita, we're still like we're doing way better than you are. Right. So that means you just have more people. I'm like, exactly the point. Less murders per people. You guys are right. Every thousand we have four. Every thousand, you have twenty.

SPEAKER_00 42:55

You have five people when when you have one murder a year, but there's five people in your town, those odds are not great.

SPEAKER_04 43:01

No, it's not. So, yeah, leave my city alone before I show you what our city can do.

SPEAKER_00 43:07

Okay, all right, let's let's move on before Agnes gets canceled. I miss my home.

SPEAKER_04 43:14

Some I haven't been cancelled yet, so you know.

SPEAKER_00 43:17

Cultural references. Abaddon. Hurley says he's evil about Abaddon. And Abaddon in the Bible means place of destruction. John Locke and Jeremy Bentham. Woodmore muses about Locke's parents calling him John. This is well, John Locke. This is the first direct reference to the 17th century philosopher John Locke, and the first time a character points out the connection. The same applies to the alias Jerry Bentham, he then gives him. Abaddon is shot and killed in a cemetery. But moments earlier he said, Helen is where she's supposed to be. Sad as it is, her path led here. And as it turns out, so did his. So did his.

SPEAKER_04 44:10

This is where your road ends.

SPEAKER_00 44:14

Um so we see that flight. Oh go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 44:19

You know who I miss? I was thinking about him. I miss Mr. Echo.

SPEAKER_00 44:24

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 44:27

Alright, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 44:28

We see that Flight 16 is still pretty much intact and it landed on the runway.

SPEAKER_04 44:34

Because they had Frank piloting this plane.

SPEAKER_00 44:37

Remember the oh well, of course. I mean, he bleeds Yankee Blue.

SPEAKER_04 44:44

That wasn't my point, but yeah, that too. He was just meant to be on the plane. That's what I meant it as.

SPEAKER_00 44:50

It's almost Star Wars Day at Yankee Stadium. Okay, anyway. Um better not get fucking rained out again. But remember they were like way, you know, way, way back in like what season two that you saw um Kate and Sawyer that they were putting them to work and they were they were like moving the rocks and shit to build the runway.

SPEAKER_04 45:15

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 45:20

You remember?

SPEAKER_04 45:21

Yeah. But now my time frame is all jacked up now. Oh my god. Holy shit.

SPEAKER_00 45:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:29

What year are we in? Yeah. It's not three years of I what what holy mother of balls? Well, I just had my where's my beer? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 45:42

Whitmore reveals that he was the leader of the others, that the island was his before Ben exiled him by tricking him into leaving. You think that's true?

SPEAKER_04 45:56

I well, we know he was an island.

SPEAKER_00 45:58

Okay, but do you think that that he was the leader and Ben tricked him? Like, you know.

SPEAKER_04 46:03

Don't know. I really don't know. It could be true, but it also cannot be true. Like, that's the thing between Whidmore and Ben are the same person. In the sense, uh, so he's like, Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:25

And then we have like the little kind of connection where Ilana comes to Caesar to say that they found a man who wasn't on the plane. And in the beginning, remember Hurley was like, there's a man here, but he wasn't on the plane because they had the manifest and he was speaking about Ethan.

SPEAKER_04 46:44

Oh, right.

SPEAKER_00 46:45

So it's it's kind of coming around like Losty's 2.0. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's pretty much gonna do it for this episode. Do you have anything else? Or okay, so the next episode is called Le Fleur.

SPEAKER_04 47:03

Le Fleur.

SPEAKER_00 47:04

Le Fleur.

SPEAKER_04 47:05

Le Fleur.

SPEAKER_00 47:06

Yes. And I I really I I I like the episode. I think you're gonna like it.

SPEAKER_04 47:10

I'm not gonna tell you why you're gonna like it, but I think it's like it's like it's even if I did, I probably wouldn't tell you. Now because I'm a petulant child.

SPEAKER_00 47:18

I mean, listen, it's been five seasons and you've barely liked two episodes. I think that your track record is still gonna be safe if you like one more episode.

SPEAKER_04 47:30

No, but I mean, I would probably tell the listeners, yeah, I liked it, but I wouldn't tell, I wouldn't admit it to you. Okay, that's fair. Just to be petty, you know. No, I'm just joking. If I like it, I would tell you.

SPEAKER_00 47:41

Okay, jokey. That's gonna do it for this episode. Agnes and I now have to record Married at First Sight.

SPEAKER_05 47:49

Ugh.

SPEAKER_00 47:51

What? Ugh. If you guys haven't been listening, my brain is shutting down.

SPEAKER_04 47:55

That's what I mean. Like, I need to like wake up.

SPEAKER_00 47:57

You need to get a new drink. Yeah, no, but go go check out that bonus series if you haven't yet, because we're just about ready to wrap it up, and and we don't know what's gonna come next for the bonus series.

SPEAKER_04 48:10

So, you know, will it be MAPS season two? Will it be a totally different show?

SPEAKER_00 48:15

Maybe it will be the one that Rebecca brought up to us in her episode. We might we could do that too. And if you don't know what it is, we're not gonna tell you here. You need to go listen. You need to go listen. Which I think the episode might not even be out yet as of this air date. But okay, I don't even know.

SPEAKER_04 48:43

Okay, so this is what you're gonna do. You guys are gonna listen to this episode, and then stay tuned and look for our spotlight. And listen, listen out for Rebecca, listen out for Rebecca Johnson Spotlight.

SPEAKER_00 49:01

Well, anyway, yeah, here's just listen.

SPEAKER_04 49:04

Just please, just listen to us.

SPEAKER_00 49:05

That's all I'm we were we were fortunate and we had a couple of recent recordings for Spotlight. So, yes, you you will have to wait, but it's coming and it's a good episode, so you're gonna want to listen.

SPEAKER_04 49:17

Personally, I think they're all great because you know our guests are been amazing people, amazing, and I'm I feel blessed to that they gave their time to speak with us. They're kind of cool. Does that make us cool by default? Um cool-ish, cool adjacent.

SPEAKER_01 49:39

I'm cool, adjacent. Yay.

SPEAKER_00 49:41

Well, until next time, until next episode, that is gonna do it for this one. Go visit us at sassinsips.com for all the ways to get in touch with us, to support us. And until next, oh, and don't drink and drive. Drink responsibly. And until next time, I'm Lisa. And I'm Agnes. And we're out of here. See you later bye.