LOST The Man From Tallahassee

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Hi, and welcome to this episode of Sassin's Sips, where every week we will be discussing and dissecting an episode of Lost in Order while we drink. And today's episode is The Man from Tallahassee. We are your host. I'm Lisa.

SPEAKER_02 0:28

And I'm Agnes.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

And welcome. What are you drinking?

SPEAKER_03 0:33

Welcome, welcome, welcome. My favorite summer, one of my favorite summertime drinks. Malibu and pineapple juice. Sounds good. It's very good. It's scumptious.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

I got trusty old beer. You know, cool and refreshing.

SPEAKER_03 0:50

Go wrong with the beer.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Right? You know what I want to try? Um, I saw a commercial for the Stella Solstice.

unknown 0:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

I want to try that. So the next time I actually get to a store, I'm gonna see if they have it.

SPEAKER_03 1:02

I tried the Stella Solstice and then the one in the dark box.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 1:06

Because they were like two, there's like it's like a light, it's like a light. Um, it's like a lighter, what's the word I'm looking for? Dark.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Interesting. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

So they had like it's a they're dark, but it's lighter than a regular dark.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

See, I don't usually like the darker beers.

SPEAKER_03 1:28

I don't, but this one I liked because it's still like the Stella version. So it's lighter than your normal dark beers.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:34

So I got the solstice and I got the dark one because there was like two for something. I don't remember what the stella was. So I like them both.

unknown 1:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:41

So at this point, I'm liking everything Stella.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

Listen, it's a yummy beer.

SPEAKER_03 1:48

It's perfect.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

And we don't get paid to say that.

SPEAKER_03 1:50

No, we don't. We just love Stella. I like the cider. I like so Stella is my go-to, everything.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

I'm not a big fan of ciders in general.

SPEAKER_03 2:00

Neither. I well I do. I like the ciders. And this one was just because I find them crisp and refreshing and viping. Stella is even for me. I'm like, yeah, you hit the spot. That's the fall. Just like we have our fall and summer and winter perfumes. We have our fall, summer, and winter drinks.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

We do because I use the same thing all year round.

SPEAKER_03 2:26

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

I'm such a feature of habit.

SPEAKER_03 2:29

Well, I am too. I I have my I have my particular winter ones, the little bit heavier. And then I have my summer, a little bit lighter. And yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

I don't know. Like I'm such a dork. We went for um our eye exams. And so um they I was picking up my my new frames. And I was like, well, I like the Torty. And they're like, but your last two glasses were. I'm like, yeah, what do you want from me? I'm a creature of habit. I like what I like.

SPEAKER_03 3:04

And I fan with glasses, I would keep the same one because it's just I would have to go through so many. I would have to go through all the shapes and sizes and see which one I like, which is legitimate, but I feel like I'm being like time, like hello, pick a frame. Like, I feel like I'm being like judged.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

And the truth of the matter is, like, I had time because um it wasn't like everybody was done with their eye exams yet. So like I knew I was gonna still be there for a while while the kids were finishing up. And I'm just like, yeah, no, no, I like what I like. Can you just show me? Just let me get my granny glasses and let's go.

SPEAKER_03 3:42

I've had the same pair of glasses for like 15 years because my eyesight hasn't changed.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Oh, yeah, my change a little.

SPEAKER_03 3:49

It's actually gotten better. So I don't even use them. I use them from having like a flare and it's something it's affecting my eyesight. But then that'll be I don't even need them anymore, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

Well, that's good.

SPEAKER_03 3:58

That's not this great for me getting older. My eyesight got my eyesight wasn't that bad. It was more like at worst, I needed to drive, but at the time at the New York, I didn't drive. So I was like, right. Yeah. So I was like, okay, let me just get them because I have insurance and cover it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Yeah. This is the first time I didn't get myself a pair of like fancy frames. I was like, what is the insurance cover? Because I'm gonna budget, I'm unemployed. Okay, I'll take those. She was like, you know, you could have brought your old frames. I was like, you know, I thought about that, and then I forgot them on the windowsill because I was in a rush. But I will remember next time.

SPEAKER_03 4:39

At least you have an extra frames in case that you need, you know, for an emergency.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

Yeah. So it is what it is. What can I do, right? Okay, the man from Tallahassee, a Locke episode. Thoughts before we start?

SPEAKER_03 4:58

I love Locke. I love Terry O'Quinn. Like he's one of my favorite actors. I like everything he's in. Shocker. Shut up. Hi Terry. My buddy Terry. I um this episode was a little aggravated for me. Because I'm a bit like it, it's just was ill. Some of the things he did was like his flashbacks were completely illogical.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

And it makes them like, uh that makes sense for all of them.

SPEAKER_03 5:26

But this was this one really, it really can be.

SPEAKER_00 5:29

But this was almost like extra, like extra.

SPEAKER_03 5:32

Because I find that there was like a lot of the emotion, like the other ones. I'm like, okay, I kind of get the emotional reason why you did things. This one's like, there's no reason not to do it, not to be logical. And we can get more into my my angst as we get to the synopsis.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Okay. Did you see that coming?

SPEAKER_03 5:52

No. Okay. No. That's good.

SPEAKER_00 5:55

Because you you've been kind of hard to shop.

SPEAKER_03 6:00

To be fair, I was um watching the episode as I was rolling my hair. So I was just like, I didn't, I wasn't watching it like dissecting it as I was watching it. So I was just like watching it. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 6:16

It happened so fast that you're just like, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_03 6:18

Like I wasn't expecting it, like the whole episode. Because sometimes as you're going through the episode, you're like, oh yeah, this is gonna happen. This time I was just kind of like, Yeah. Yeah. All right. So I was like, say word.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

Ready for flashbacks? I'm ready.

unknown 6:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

In flashback, Locke is being interviewed by a government worker about his disability payments. She asks whether he has tried to find his biological father and why he has stopped submitting his therapy bills. He says he stopped because it's a waste of time. So she suspends the payment, saying the suspension is temporary and he can apply again as soon as he starts his therapy for depression again. So, like the show opens with one of its usual fake outs, like right here, you think, oh yeah, he must be like when he got into his wheelchair because he's disability.

SPEAKER_03 7:12

Oh, and you know what? I didn't even think that because I'm thinking, no, because I'm like, we didn't that's like that. I don't know for some reason. I'm like, yeah, that's not it. For some reason, I don't know what it was.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

Yeah. And then especially when they're like, oh, you think it's you think it's temporary or something, and you're like, Yeah, of course not. He's in a wheelchair, like staple. And then he stands up and leaves, and you're like, oh wait, no, he's not.

SPEAKER_03 7:36

I was like, because I wouldn't be surprised, like, even if he was the wheelchair, I wouldn't even be surprised if they were questioning it, like, because that's the kind of shit that they do.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

At his apartment, Locke eats a TV dinner while watching TV. And the show that he's watching, they're talking about like the Cobra and whatever. You're gonna see what the show is in the next episode.

SPEAKER_03 8:05

Oh, okay. I didn't notice anything.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

Okay, yeah, like you're not really gonna recognize it or anything like that, but you know, like they show him watching the TV, you don't see the show or anything, you just hear it, and they're like something like the uranium and the cobra, and you're like, what the fuck kind of shit is he watching? But you're gonna see in the next episode. Okay, there's a knock at the door, and a young man introduces himself as Peter Talbot. Okay, this part, I'm sorry, but it was funny, but like in a you shouldn't be laughing at that kind of way.

SPEAKER_03 8:42

I was just this this is the beginning of my angst.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

When he was like, Oh, you have the wrong person, and he's like, How many kidneys do you have?

SPEAKER_03 8:50

Kidneys do you have? That was kind of funny. He's like, um, yeah, but it's funny, but it could have been funnier if because you're like, oh well, it's like, oh, I have two. Oh, you're right. There's the other John Locke with one kidney. Like, what about it'd be funny though.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

He asked Locke if he knows Adam Seward, who claims to be a retired computer entrepreneur from Ontario, and has asked Peter's mother to marry him. Talbot says Seward used to be known as Anthony Cooper, and he was able to trace Loc as the donor of the kidney. Peter has an uneasy feeling about Seward and wants to find out if he is a good man. Locke claims it was an anonymous donation and he can't help him. Locke then confronts his father at a flower shop preparing for the wedding. He demands that Cooper call off the wedding and leave the state. He tells Cooper that Peter is onto the con and threatens to tell Mrs. Talbot about the truth. Cooper tells Locke that he will leave and call off the wedding. See, like right here, like, why are you even getting involved? If you wanted to do something to help, you should have just told Peter the truth.

SPEAKER_03 10:33

That was the beginning of my angst. Like just tell him what happened, and then and my angst continues to build by each decision he makes.

SPEAKER_00 10:47

In all of Locke's flashbacks, you see him as this just pathetic, gullible person, and it's like Locke is still trying to get into like good grace with his father. The dude stole your kidney, and you're still trying to help him because that's the only reason to do that, is to help him. Because if you wanted to screw him over, you know, you would either just not get involved or tell Peter.

SPEAKER_03 11:18

I wonder, like, I have I don't know why he didn't just I don't know. Like what my question is, like, why does well my question is actually best asked at the end.

SPEAKER_00 11:29

Okay. One day, as he arrives home, Locke is met by detectives who asks if he knows Peter Talbot. They tell Locke they know he came to his apartment, and when Locke claims Peter was just trying to sell him something, the detectives tell him that he was worth $200 million and that now he's dead. Locke goes to Cooper's high rise and demands to know if he killed Peter Talbot. Cooper claims Mrs. Talbot called off the wedding due to the boy's death, leaving him with no angle to make any profit. Cooper pours two glasses of McCutcheon Scotch whiskey, sipping from one. Locke refuses the whiskey. Cooper says he's a con man and not a murderer, and Locke can call Mrs. Talbot and ask her. As Locke reaches for the phone, Cooper lunges and pushes him through the window. He plummets eight stories and lands on his back. Locke is badly injured and hospitalized. The detectives visit him and tell him that Cooper fled to Mexico and disappeared. When they leave, Locke's therapist tries to bring a positive attitude to the deeply depressed Locke. He brings in a wheelchair and carries a resistant and unsettled Locke to it. Loc claims he can't do it, but the therapist responds, John, you fell eight stories out of a window and survived. I don't want to hear about what you can't do. And thus Locke's trademark phrase was born. No, I'm just kidding. Right?

SPEAKER_01 13:01

Perfect timing.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

Locke stares at his immobile toes and cries. On the island. Locke, Said, Kate, and Rousseau watch Jack and Tom throw a football. They're having a merry old time, and Juliet joins them and they happily speak. They go to a house and Juliet wheels Ben out in a wheelchair. They talk and Ben shakes hands with Jack. The trio of Kate, Said, and Locke are confused by Jack's behavior. Loc guesses that Jack must have a good reason for it and suggests waiting until dark before talking to Jack and attempting a rescue. Said notices that Rousseau has left them because she is no fool. That night, the rescue party splits up to guard Jack's bungalow as Kate sneaks in. She finds Jack playing the piano, and when he notices her, he is surprised and angry and tells her to leave immediately because he is being watched by cameras. Guards burst in and Kate is captured and Saeed is dragged in also. When Kate is interrogated by the guards, she lies and does not mention that Locaruso had accompanied them to the barracks. Meanwhile, Locke surprises Ben in his room with his gun drawn. Locke asks Ben where the submarine is, and Ben claims ignorance until Locke mentions that he killed Mikhail. Alex comes in and Locke takes her hostage. When Tom knocks on the door, Loc takes Alex into a closet while Tom and Richard enter to inform Ben that Kate and Said have been found in the barracks and captured. Ben orders that they be separated. Tom goes to carry out the orders and Ben asks Alpert to bring him the man from Tallahassee. When he leaves, Loc sends Alex to retrieve Said's backpack as he holds Ben hostage. Ben asks for help getting into his wheelchair. When Locke shows reluctance, Ben promises no tricks and that he just wants some dignity. He says that Locke should understand what that means. Ben asks how Locke will pilot the submarine and what is in the pack. He deduces that Locke has C4 explosives and that he plans to destroy the sub. I know you, John Locke, says Ben. He outlines Locke's life, saying he knows he spent four years in a wheelchair and that he knows how Locke ended up in it. He asks if it hurt, and a bitter Locke explains, I felt my back break. What do you think? Kate's hands are cuffed behind her back, and she is being held in a recreation room with a pool table. She is working to free herself when Tom comes in. He is with Jack and warns him to be careful in here, pointing to his ear and the ceiling, indicating the room is bugged. Jack tells Kate that this is where they live and that the kidnapped people and children are safe. She confronts him about why he is acting this way, and he admits that they agree to let him go the next morning and that he can get help for everyone. They draw near to one another, but when Jack mentions saving Sawyer's life for her, Kate asks, What did they tell you? Their moment is interrupted by Juliet coming to get him so they can leave on the submarine. Jack whispers in Kate's ear that he will come back for her after he escapes. Ben says, while he was imprisoned in the hatch, he couldn't ask John how he was walking around without telling him who he really was. When he invites Ben to ask him now, John suggests that he still will not know who Ben really is. Ben seeks confirmation that John could walk immediately after the crash. Locke says that Ben is wondering why he too is not recovering as fast as he would like. Ben suggests that Locke is afraid that he leaves the island, he will be back in the chair, and that's why he wants to destroy the sub. Alex goes to get the pack from Ryan, who was guarding Saeed, who is handcuffed to a swing set. Saeed tells her she looks like her mother. My mother is dead, she says, and he replies, I'm sure that is what they told you. Before being hit by Ryan and told to keep his mouth shut. Poor Said barely has any lines in this episode.

SPEAKER_03 17:37

He's the most abused himself.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

But at least like his one line, he made it count. Because you know he got Alex wondering, like, the fuck he meant by that.

SPEAKER_03 17:47

He always he has that way though with people, with everything he does. It's very because it's very he says what he means, he means what he says, it's very concise. There's no bullshitting.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Locke asks where the electricity comes from. And Ben says sarcastically that they have two giant hamsters running in a wheel. I fucking love Ben. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03 18:10

I do, I do also.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

I I and Ben and Locke together. It makes a really good scene.

SPEAKER_03 18:20

Yeah, it really does.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

Ben has photos of Alex throughout her childhood displayed proudly in frames on his wall. Ben tries to convince Loc to leave the submarine alone because he would have a big problem with his people if Locke were to destroy it. He says that he was born on the island, but many of the others weren't. And though they love the island, they would do anything to defend it. They need to know that they can leave if they want to. And the sub maintains that illusion. Ben promises to show Locke things he wants to see very badly. He tells Loc to imagine that the island contains a very large box that can manifest anything one wishes for.

SPEAKER_03 19:20

And it's felt like they never they haven't missed a beat. Like they just can like they play off of each other.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

They have the same type of and even though Ben is like in charge here, he's still kind of being held captive by Locke.

SPEAKER_03 19:36

But is he really? Well is he really?

SPEAKER_00 19:41

Is he really? He says Ben is a hypocrite and a Pharisee for using electricity and guns. He says that Ben has no idea what the island really is. Ben asks how Loc thinks he knows the island better than he does. And Loc replies, because you're in a wheelchair and I'm not. Alex returns with a bag and Loc demands that she take him to the sub. Ben pleads one more time, telling Locke about his deal with Jack. He tells Loc that the submarine will leave in an hour with Jack and that it will never come back because the magnetic anomaly disabled their communications. Outside, Alex tells Loc that Ben was manipulating him because that is what he does. She tells him he makes you think it's your idea, but really it's his. To which Loc replies that he will have to keep that in mind. And it's like once again, she's helping the survivors, and she's telling Locke, dude, he's manipulating you. And Locke only does what Locke wants to do. You can't tell him what he can't do.

SPEAKER_03 20:57

I feel like even if he was being manipulated in a sense, he's gonna do it regardless because it's what that's what he wanted. Whether Ben's manipulation and his wants are different or they are are they aligned, he's gonna do it like because that's what he wants to do.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

Yeah. She shows Locke to the doc and he apologizes for involving her. We we see Rousseau longingly watching Alex from the trees. Locke enters the empty sub, looks around, and turns on the lights. Ben is visited by Jack and Juliet at his house. Jack asks for one last favor that his friends be released after he is gone. Ben agrees to let them go, shaking Jack's hands and giving his word to let them go just as soon as you've left the island. Juliet thanks him for keeping his promise. Loc leaves the sub, bathed in sweat, and is confronted by Ryan and the others with Jack and Juliet. Jack asks Locke what he is doing there. Loc apologizes to Jack just as the sub explodes. And here we see Locke blow up yet another thing on this island. What is that? Three things now? Three, four, something like that. Two two hatch two uh stations and a submarine. Well the first oh well, yeah, that's right. Well, yeah, yeah. Yeah. He's uh he's got a role here. Um Later, Locke is cuffed in an industrial room when Ben and Richard Alpert enter. Locke guesses that Ben wanted him to destroy the sub. Ben confirms that Locke made his dreams come true by leaving Jack unable to leave the island, but without Ben having obviously broken his own promise. Ben tells Alpert to uncuff John. Locke asks sarcastically about the magic box, and Ben says that he will show him what came out of it. Ben tells Locke that when he asked him earlier if it hurt, he was not asking about the physical pain, but what it felt like when Loc's own father tried to kill him. He guesses that Loc is afraid of Cooper and that the island is the one place Cooper can never find him. Locke has some communion with the island, and that makes him important. Then unlocks a door, revealing the man from Tallahassee, Anthony Cooper, found and beaten with a gag in his mouth. Anthony Cooper's reaction to seeing Locke is a mixture of shock and fear. And John's reaction is shock and one word. Dad.

SPEAKER_03 23:40

I my question before I forget was why does he allow himself to continue to be conned? I just like over and over and over by his father, by Ben, by I just like I like he's not a bad person. No, I think a lot of it stems from being a foster child, possibly, where you just want to believe that someone means what they say. You just want to you want and hope and pray that someone's not gonna fuck you over. Um so part of me, I I understand it, but watching it it's frustrating. Like tell I keep calling him Mike because the kid was Mike and um the legal draw. Wait, my brain is shutting down. What's the name of the fucking show? Oh my god. Anyway, the god, the kid that played the rich kid, the rich woman's son that came to ask him the question. Oh, I think he's from um Suits. The Lost Show that Suits, damn it. I used to love that show. I was like, I was addicted to that show. Thank you. I'm gonna keep calling him Mike because that was his character on Suits. Harvey, by the way, total crush on Harvey. Um I didn't see the show. But you did we remember the name, but you didn't watch the show. Yeah, you have to watch it. It was really good. Maybe you could find out demand. It's a really good show, really, really good. Um what was the point I was going to remember?

SPEAKER_00 25:14

I don't know, but it was about the point. It was a aka Mike.

SPEAKER_03 25:18

Yeah, I don't know. I I jumped off the track and went in a totally different direction.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

Oh my I and you say you said before I forget, and five seconds later, you forgot.

SPEAKER_03 25:32

Well, I did tell you my question was why does he keep line himself to be conned? That was okay. That was that because I forgot and then it might okay. I would have out until I remember my brain. I gotta find my brain. Excuse me, people, I'll be back. Might be a minute, might be a couple episodes before I come back.

SPEAKER_00 25:53

Do you want to do um trivia first or do you want to talk about like episode points? I don't care. This is trivia. Okay. The piano Jack plays appears to be the same Kauai once owned by Charlie.

SPEAKER_03 26:11

I mean, considering I don't see them buying six different pianos for props. That's not much trivia, but okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

This episode drops several several hints about the next episode, expose. But I can't really tell you them yet.

SPEAKER_03 26:31

Great, fabulous. TV, because you're just a tease.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

Anthony pours two glasses and drinks McCutcheon whiskey right before pushing Locke out of the window. That's the same whiskey that that uh his father. You should already know. Like you see somebody pouring that whiskey, and they're about to ruin your life.

SPEAKER_03 26:50

I see anyone pouring any alcohol, they're gonna be ruining your life at this point.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

Well, he he poured, he got two glasses, poured one, and told Desmond basically you're a piece of shit. You'll never be drinking both of them for my daughter, and Anthony Cooper poured and then pushed his son out of a window. So I think so far Anthony Cooper has the award for worst dad.

SPEAKER_03 27:12

Like I said, I think I said this a couple episodes ago. I'm just glad Lost is not making this a mommy issue because everyone wants to blame the mothers for every every drama, it's always a mother's fault. This show makes it like hey, it was a two-person process here. We're not the only fucking ones here. Everyone, everyone goes to therapy for mommy issues. Listen.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

This episode, this is this is not a spoiler, but like, but it's a kind of it's cool, okay. This episode I want all the spoilers personally, I know, marks the first time in which Locke and Richard Alpert meet. However, it is not the first time chronologically that they've met. Who Richard, who's Richard Albert? What? Mr. Eyeliner. I love him. Okay. Richard Alpert was the one who Ben tells to bring him the man from Tallahassee, and then he uncuffs Locke at the end. Oh, also the one from Juliet's flashback giving the presentation, trying to recruit Juliet to mill. Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_03 28:18

So I suppose to remember his name. Um, but this is the first time they meet on the show, but not the first time chronologically.

SPEAKER_00 28:25

Right.

unknown 28:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

They've met before. And Anthony Cooper, Adam Seward is an anagram. But if I tell you what the anagram is, it's going to spoil something. If you figure it out, I'll tell you. Okay, so what's his name again? Anthony Cooper? Anthony Cooper. Adam Seward.

SPEAKER_02 28:49

Like Seward Park?

SPEAKER_00 28:50

Like S-E-W-A-W-A-A-R-D.

SPEAKER_02 28:54

Like Seward Park High. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 28:56

So are they uh anagram together or separately? Two separate anagrams. Like I don't understand.

SPEAKER_00 29:04

No, like you need all four names. Okay. Uh, you know, the well, two names, whatever. Yeah, I know what you need.

SPEAKER_03 29:12

Yeah. Okay, so I the next episode I would tell you if I got the anagram. Okay. I like puzzles.

SPEAKER_00 29:19

I know. And I think that that's it for trivia. Now, I have a question. I have an answer. Did you see or I know that I know that how luck got into a wheelchair that that was actually like you didn't see that coming.

SPEAKER_03 29:40

Right. Did you find something we're all knew? Oh, go ahead. I'm sorry. Oh no, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 29:44

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 29:44

I mean, we knew it definitely had to do with his father. Like we like from like the very first episode between him and his father, you knew however he got in that wheelchair, it was directly connected to his father. That's all we knew. Um, but I'm not surprised he threw him out of window either.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

That was like, yeah, that that's wow. Um, did you see it coming when they opened the door that that's what would be in the box? Quote unquote.

SPEAKER_03 30:14

No, I did not.

SPEAKER_00 30:16

What did you think about it? I didn't think okay.

SPEAKER_03 30:19

I really didn't think anything because I'm like, okay, what's what's gonna be? And I figured first of all, I also did not expect them to tell you what these saw until like another episode. Like I thought they're gonna leave me hanging.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

I'm sorry, but like, you know, you you feel like the um right, like after that whole like holy shit moment of lock flying out the window, you're like, that's bad enough. Like that's a what the fuck moment, and then they open the door and you really think it's gonna fade to black, and you're like, oh my god, fucking lost. Like, and then they show you and you're like, wait, this isn't even worse.

SPEAKER_03 30:52

Another what the fuck moment, and now I'm like, okay, so just tell me when I need to know when the next episode or when they actually could like like um continues that situation. Just tell me no, like two episodes from now, the next episode, four episodes from now. I need to know. I'm not waiting. I'm just gonna skip. No, because I know it's not the next I know it's not the next episode. No, the next episode. But they wouldn't do that, no, because they're evil.

SPEAKER_00 31:16

I'm not honestly, I'm not sure. But the next episode doesn't have anything to do with that, but it's it's a good episode in its own right, it's really dark and twisty. And I have oh, I like dark and twisty. Yeah, I have a feeling that you're gonna like it. I like dark and twisty because I'm dark and twisty. However, I will tell you this, it's a Nikki and Paolo episode.

SPEAKER_03 31:40

Okay, the two people that came out of nowhere because I'm still I'm with I'm with Sawyer. Like, what the fuck are you?

SPEAKER_00 31:45

Like, I'm like with him, like but it but it's dark and twisty, and and even though it's Nikki and Paolo, I have a feeling that you're actually gonna enjoy it. Okay, dark and twisty makes me happy.

SPEAKER_03 31:57

I'm like the Grim Reaper on a fucking unicorn riding line uh rainbow.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

Do you think that Anthony Cooper is what Locke like when Ben says, Oh, imagine what you want, anything that you want will be in the box. Do you think it was actually Anthony Cooper that Ben wanted in the box?

SPEAKER_03 32:18

That Ben wanted, or I mean that I'm sorry, that Locke wanted, yeah. I think so. I don't think subconsciously. I think subconsciously. I think sometimes you don't know, you don't you're surprised by what you want. I think it was like um whether he wants to understand why he's supposed to asshole, or whether he wants to make his life hell, or whether whatever the reason, I think subconsciously, that's something it's the same premise, like the wronged the person in a relationship that's been wronged always wants closure. Like it gets to the point where, like, okay, the fact I'm so glad I'm at the age, I'm at the point in my life where you just don't want me, that's closure enough for me. And I think it's blue, it's a blessing for people to be able to just like because you're not gonna get what you want from a person that doesn't want you anymore. You know what I mean? You're never gonna get that, right?

SPEAKER_00 33:09

Right.

SPEAKER_03 33:09

So I think it's that whole sense of closure that he wants. And I don't think he's ever. And the thing with closure, you're never gonna get it from the person that wronged you. Because they wronged you to begin with, they don't give a fuck about your closure.

SPEAKER_00 33:25

Yeah, but Locke can't get past that, and he's not going to, I think.

SPEAKER_03 33:30

That's why we keep getting like he's never he's never been throughout the window.

SPEAKER_00 33:34

He's never would have been well, but I think but I think that from okay, for me, I had a little bit of a different take. So I don't know if Locke wanted would have wanted Anthony Cooper in the box, but I think that Ben is a fucking brilliant mastermind psychopath. Ben keep talking about the wheelchair was to get Locke to keep thinking about his father.

SPEAKER_03 34:05

Ah, so you don't think he wanted for say you think it's kind of like mind fucking to thinking. Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 34:11

Because now Locke is thinking about him, so when he appears in the box, it's like if it was his own idea. Like she said, first of all, he makes you think it's your idea.

SPEAKER_03 34:21

There's no such thing as whatever you want to be in the box, it's more as an it's a an illusionist trick. It's a so you you exact of suggestion, and but like you said, so there is no such thing of whether he wanted it or not. That's what Ben, like you said, it's what Ben wanting him to think that he wants it. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 34:43

Yeah, that's exactly what I said.

SPEAKER_03 34:45

I I said I was agreeing with you. It's like, yeah, it's all one thing called. I was I was agreeing with you and just being more in depth of my agreement, as opposed to just saying, yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

I mean, okay, on the on the flip side, Ben says, bring me the man from Tallahassee. And what an hour, maybe two hours later, Anthony Cooper is in the box. Where the fuck did Anthony Cooper come from?

SPEAKER_03 35:11

Another question I have about the others, like, how do they know all this shit about the the survivors? This is more than just like, okay, this is the manifest, and this like none of it makes sense to me. And I feel like it's bothering me, like those details. I have to ignore those details of get very frustrated with the show again. Because none of it makes sense. I need to know, and this is season three, and I feel like I've watched three different shows.

SPEAKER_00 35:42

Yeah, but didn't our buddy Jamar tell you that this was gonna happen?

SPEAKER_03 35:46

I hate this. I it and I'm with you. This is like you're killing that you're killing me, Smalls.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

It's gonna change again, too.

SPEAKER_03 35:54

It's not enough alcohol. How many seasons in this stupid show? Oh my god, six. We're almost there, we're almost there. So three the last three seasons, is it like three different shows too? Or do I at least get two one to two shows out of this the last three seasons?

SPEAKER_00 36:13

No, never mind. Season four is yeah, I can't I can't really answer that well.

SPEAKER_03 36:20

I don't never mind. I don't even like it.

SPEAKER_00 36:23

But season four season four changes again, so this okay.

SPEAKER_03 36:27

Does season four or season five connect?

SPEAKER_00 36:30

Um I'm actually I'm not sure because I don't remember where this with a yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:37

Guess what? I hate I really do not like this show, Lisa as a whole, I wouldn't I still would never have watched the show.

SPEAKER_00 36:50

I know.

SPEAKER_03 36:50

You owe me like a dozen bagels per episode after this. I'm just joking. I'm just joking, I'm just joking.

SPEAKER_00 36:58

What do you think? While we're talking about Cooper, what do you think the plan is? Like now that he's in the box, what are they gonna do with him?

SPEAKER_03 37:06

He's gonna fuck up his life. He's like the fuck boy in every female's in every woman's life. Like he's just there to Cooper is there to fuck up Locke's life. Like he's just he's the fuck boy in every woman's life. And like I'm just gonna pop in, fuck up your life, and then pop back out. 10 years later, I'm gonna pop in, fuck up your life, and pop back out. Like, he's just gonna fuck up his life. I feel like whatever it is. Short of Locke, just taking him out and burying him, he's gonna fuck up his life some way, some form, somehow.

SPEAKER_00 37:37

Okay. I I have a feeling that you're gonna like where that goes. Does Locke get its this quote unquote closure? Let's talk about Locke. Hi, Terry. This whole episode, as as you've said before, there's a very um heavy religious overlay. But this episode, it just keeps having Locke as like this Jesus figure. They talk about him as as being like a miracle, how he fell and he survived and he's a miracle, and now he's like, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 38:19

I guess like he's kind of like the savior of the island, like he has this communion with it, and but is he Jesus or is he one of maybe one of God?

SPEAKER_00 38:30

Or like a prophet, you know. Yes, that's yeah, um, and then but and there's a lot of like religious talk in this island, like even Locke is telling Ben he's a Pharisee, so we've got like so much religious talk in this episode that I feel like it just it just reminded me of everything like that you've been saying and you've been picking up on.

SPEAKER_03 39:01

Wow, I was so smart sometimes. I amazed myself. There's something you there's times that you're like, oh you said this like X amount of episodes ago. I'm like, I did. Wow, that was kind of perceptive of me. Like, wow, that was kind of cool.

SPEAKER_00 39:21

When Ben, when Jack when Locke was into Ben's room, there's the book on Ben's night table is The Gunslinger by Stephen King. So two things about that. Number one, I think it's funny because when we see um in one one of the other episodes when Juliet was doing the book club, I think it was the first episode of the season. And they're like, oh, Stephen King, like you must not want Ben in the book club anymore.

SPEAKER_03 39:51

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:53

So I thought it was funny that Ben is reading a Stephen King book.

SPEAKER_03 39:56

Oh, okay, okay, okay, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:58

But the gunslinger, which actually I love that book, I love that whole series. Anyway, it's the story centers upon the gunslinger who's been chasing after his adversary, the man in black, for many years. So can you compare that to say John Locke, who's kind of been chasing after his father?

SPEAKER_03 40:22

His father.

SPEAKER_00 40:23

Okay, I see the connection. I don't want to spoil the series for anybody who hasn't ever read it, but I can tell you, I can tell you later how that book ends. Well, how the series ends.

SPEAKER_03 40:37

They both end up in the grave. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 40:41

No, well, I'll I'll just cut this part out. It's spoiler alert.

SPEAKER_03 40:45

Don't tell me. I don't know what else, because this I feel like it's gonna connect to John and his father. So don't tell me anything.

SPEAKER_00 40:51

It might, it might not.

SPEAKER_03 40:52

Nope, don't tell me.

SPEAKER_00 40:54

Fine. Oh, such a good series. I feel like reading it again. Okay, anyway. That's about it for this episode. I think. I don't think that we missed anything. So the next episode is Expose and Nikki and Paolo and whoever the fuck they are. But I just okay, I'm gonna give you this, right? Like I think that this episode is one of those episodes where like when you're really into the show and like the first time like when it came on the first time around, you watch it and you're like, this is like Stranger in a Strangeland part two. Like what the fuck? However, I will say that now after seeing the entirety of the series, this episode is fucking brilliant. Like it's it's like the writers had a lot of fun. And I and that's why I said like it's kind of dark and twisty, and it's like it like trolls the whole fucking show. Okay, but and I think that you're gonna like it. I really do. Okay, it's kind of like a standalone episode, so you don't really need much, you know, connection. I don't have connection.

SPEAKER_03 42:13

I don't have to think about what did I miss and no connections, like looking for the numbers because I was quiet. That first is another reason for the first season. I was just you're gonna drive me fucking crazy for the show. Like everything like Easter egg, load the fucking place. I'm like, what the fuck? Like, it's confusing. There's Easter eggs. I feel like I was being tested because there was all this stuff that had to look out for. I'm like, I hate that shit.

SPEAKER_00 42:34

So I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03 42:35

Season one.

SPEAKER_00 42:36

Okay, I get really nuts.

SPEAKER_03 42:38

Well, season one, we kind of think this is a lot of different connections everywhere, drove me nuts. I was like, I no, I don't care. I didn't know that nobody knows the numbers. I don't care, like, does it really make a difference in the show?

SPEAKER_00 42:50

Any connections that you're gonna see in the next episode, they're easy to spot. Like, you don't have to dig deep. You're just gonna be like, oh, look at this. Like, yeah, it's it's it's fun, it's dark, and it's it's it's really smart, you know.

SPEAKER_03 43:08

I have a I'm scared. I'm like, should I be concerned when you said you're gonna like it because it's dark and twisty and fun? Like you, I'm gonna find it fun because it's dark and twisty. Should I be concerned? Nah.

SPEAKER_00 43:18

The fact that you also found him saying, Well, how many kidneys do you have? Okay, I think you're I think that there's a reason you're gonna like the next episode.

SPEAKER_03 43:28

And it's I laugh at dark horror movies. I I I I laugh at horror movies, so it's dark and twisty.

SPEAKER_00 43:35

Yay! So yeah, but as for this episode, we are done. And please stay tuned for the next episode. And in the meantime, please, please, please, if you like what you hear, please consider supporting the show. You can go to assassinsips.com for all the ways that you can support this show, and you can connect with us on social media. All of our info is in the show notes. And as always, please drink responsibly and do not drink and drive. And until next time, I'm Lisa, and I'm Iris, and we are out of here. Peace.

SPEAKER_03 44:19

See you bye.