LOST This Place is Death

SPEAKER_03 0:09

Hi, and welcome to this episode of Sassin's Sips. Today we are going to talk about Lost, Season 5, Episode 5. This Place is Death. I'm one of your hosts. I'm Lisa.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

And I'm Agnes.

SPEAKER_03 0:29

Today I am drinking some hooked up coffee with Kalua again. Because that was good last time.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

Did I create a monster?

SPEAKER_03 0:41

Maybe a little bit, yeah. It's also early.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

So we need the coffee.

SPEAKER_03 0:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

I um got my same, my laced coffee, my very strong coffee. But I also added a packet of hot chocolate mix. Ooh. It's like I got glue and hot chocolate and this coffee in there because coffee I made very, very strong. I noticed as I'm getting older, I can't take the caffeine. Really? So it gives me the heart palpitations and make me weak and dizzy. I'm a hot mess. So I don't drink every so often I go to Starbucks, get my even then, I get decaf roast. But I make my make it at home. I make it so strong. Who knows? It doesn't have caffeine in it. Because for me, it's just the taste. I don't need caffeine to keep me up. I'm a taste of coffee that makes me happy. So yeah, it's a win-win.

SPEAKER_03 1:38

Any hot takes for the episode?

SPEAKER_01 1:44

I knew it. I knew it. I knew it.

SPEAKER_03 1:46

What did you know? What did you know?

SPEAKER_01 1:48

That she was on the island before.

SPEAKER_03 1:50

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

And that it was him on the island. Like maybe his father, but it definitely was him. Faraday. So I'm like, duh. And then I'm going back to, I think I said this in season one. They're all dead anyway. And this is one oh god. End of life flashes.

SPEAKER_03 2:12

I can hear the hate mail coming in right now.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

Bring it on. I actually don't take any kind of mail because it comes into us, so I'm okay with the hate or otherwise not being picky.

SPEAKER_03 2:25

I like the episode because you you got some questions, you got some answers right away.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:31

You got some callbacks, and I thought that was kind of cool, but got a couple got a scene where Ben was like, oh, was surprised.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

Like, oh interesting. He seems so pissed that he didn't know. I love that.

SPEAKER_03 2:53

Alright, ready?

SPEAKER_01 2:54

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 2:55

On the island, November of 1988. Jin, who's confused, asks Danielle her name and where she came from. Danielle responds that her group left Tahiti on November 15th, 1988. He argues with the members of the science expedition about what to do next. He wants to return to the beach camp, but Robert and the others want to find the radio tower, which is the source of the transmission. The expedition members convince Jin to accompany them to the radio tower, as Jin does not know the way to his own camp from their current location. Danielle stops to rest while they're trekking in the jungle, and she flirts with Robert about the gender and the name of their baby. Robert offers her water but does not have a canteen. They call to Nadine, who had been carrying it, but she's missing. They look for her briefly, then Montan directs the others to conduct searches. They hear a noise, and Jin is like monster. A few moments later, a tree is torn up and Nadine's body lands near them. Jin yells at the group to run, and the smoke monster makes his way through the trees. The monster catches Montan and drags him through the jungle to a Cerberus vent near some old ruins. The group chases him and manages to grab his arm just before the monster can pull him down the hole. And uh the only thing left of him is his arm. I know it's not funny, like because his arm is ripped off, and like you know, but but it's funny.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

Sorry, he's sick.

SPEAKER_03 4:46

I love that because then they're just like left there holding the arm, and then they hear him yelling from down the hole, like, oh, it's safe now, you know. Come on. Like you might as well see you don't have an arm. You might as well see a clown holding a balloon in a drain, okay?

SPEAKER_01 5:04

Come on.

SPEAKER_03 5:07

It's the 80s, you should have known by now not to go down any holes.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

Um now I I feel like people only want to go down holes. Like they intentionally want to do that crazy.

SPEAKER_00 5:20

Oh, I look like I could die. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

Okay. Natural selection at its best. Let's just weed, let them weed themselves out. I'm okay.

SPEAKER_03 5:31

Yeah, really. So so basically they all start going down the hole, and then but before Danielle could go, he's Jin is like, um, no. But then Jin gets time flash, so you know, he he doesn't exactly know what happens. He goes later on, uh, it's like two months in the future. Montan's arm is decaying on the ground. So as he's walking through the jungle, he sees smoke, he goes back to the beach, he finds the makeshift camp, including the still-playing music box that Robert had given to Danielle. He finds the dead bodies of Lacombe and Brennan, and he moves closer because he hears voices and that are arguing. As he approaches, he sees Danielle and Robert both armed with rifles. Danielle is accusing Robert of not being her husband, asserting that he has become infected by the monster. Robert tries to reassure her that he still loves her and has not changed, and he insists that the smoke monster is not a monster, but merely a security system for the temple that they have discovered. He asks her to put the gun down, and when she lowers it, he shoots her. Aha! But we already know what happens. Danielle had removed the firing pin. She's too smart for his ass. But this was cool because remember, like we had only heard the story. Right, and so now we got to see it kind of cool. So she shoots his ass, and then Jin is like, wait, uh you know, like, anyway, and then she goes to shoot him, but time flash saves his ass. Like, save by the flash.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Good try. That was a violent effort.

SPEAKER_03 7:35

Oh man. Before after the after he's he flashes, right? And before he can react, we hear a gun being cocked, and someone ordering him to turn around slowly. And we all know that voice. Oh, I know that voice. And this was this was so great though. This was so great. Jin turns around, like, you know, just ready to be like, I don't know, I'm about to get shot, you know. And then he sees Sawyer, and and both of their faces just change. Like, I look at that.

SPEAKER_01 8:13

It was like a second of like your brain is have to catch up with your eyes. I gotta say, this is so realistic and not just acting. It's yeah, they do both did a great job. And there's joy and the hugging, and uh yeah, and then you realize as a watcher, like they're still stuck in this fucking flashing island.

SPEAKER_03 8:32

But put that aside, you know, yeah, and I mean it lasts for like a few seconds before Jen is like, okay, but we're son. And then poor Sawyer, once again, he has to tell somebody that somebody is not here. I mean, could we give this man like better? A better role to play in this, like this poor guy has to be the constantly be the bearer of bad news.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

But I listen, if you if I'm gonna get bad news, I think I don't mind it from Sawyer because he's not gonna sugarcoat it, he's gonna give it to you straight. That's true, and then he's gonna say something that's gonna make you like uh okay.

SPEAKER_03 9:13

Yeah, so he tells Charlotte to help translate, but I like that he was like, translate, and Miles is like, I don't speak Korean, he's like, I'm from Encino. So they they didn't even know that she spoke Korean, but anyway, so the whole situation gets worked out, and then they start going towards the orchid. As they're walking, they get another flash, they go from daylight to darkness, and then they flash again. So, like now it's it's coming closer, they're flashing back to back, and they go back to daylight. Sawyer and Juliet now get nosebleeds. Charlotte collapses and she begins to speak, yeah, and she starts to speak incoherently, partly in Korean, and she tells Jin, don't let them bring her back. This place is death. Oh, look, the title of the episode.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

No, my my first thought was, well, no shit. We've known that since they crashed, but okay.

SPEAKER_03 10:20

It's a big crack and obvious. It's it's like the biggest irony of them all, right? This island where these people fell out of the sky in a plane crash, yet somehow walked away unscathed, and others walked away better than they landed, and yet this place is all about death, except somehow these people lived.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

Thus, this they're already dead.

SPEAKER_03 10:49

They're already dead.

SPEAKER_01 10:51

Okay, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 10:52

You you guys can't hear it, but I'm rolling my eyes.

SPEAKER_01 10:55

I think they can hear the eye rolling. They can hear it in the future or the past, or the past, or the future. It depends where the island's at.

SPEAKER_03 11:06

Charlotte begins suffering from mental time slips, speaking as if she's experiencing events from her past. Why can't Daddy come with us? You know what would you know what my mother would say about me marrying an American? I know more about ancient Carthage than Hannibal himself. Why does anybody like Charlotte?

SPEAKER_01 11:29

I mean, she seems like I don't think they don't like her.

SPEAKER_03 11:33

I mean Daniel Faraday loves her. Right.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 11:38

I don't know. I just forget it. I take it back.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

I think that at first she was very abrasive.

SPEAKER_03 11:44

Well, she is.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

But but now they know her a little bit better, and her brazen nip is just okay, that's just she's like she's like Lilith, you know, with a shittier personality.

SPEAKER_03 11:55

Although I love Lilith.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

I mean, I would be her, but but she kind of reminds me of Sawyer in that sense. He doesn't get off the best first impression or second or third, or maybe even fifth impression. But as a person, you're like, okay, people not people trust Sawyer and they like Sawyer and they appreciate him. So I think that I think that's the same thing with Charlotte. And if you know, if she was on for four or five seasons, we probably have a different relationship with people.

SPEAKER_03 12:25

That's true.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

And also when a woman is whatever, it's so much, she's it's it's it's a felony as opposed to when a man. I understand what you're saying. And straight to it is slightly abrasive. Oh my gosh, she's horrible.

SPEAKER_03 12:42

No, it's not that. It's not that. It's her like holier than thou mentality. So she's Jack and Sawyer. No, but but Jack, maybe not Sawyer. Sawyer doesn't really come up.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

No, I mean it's for the abrasiveness. She's like a melding of the two.

SPEAKER_03 13:03

She's like a smarter arst. Like oh, I forgot about. Yeah, I forgot about it. And prettier, but all right, anyway. As another flash occurs, Daniel asks for help to carry Charlotte to the off orchid, and Laga's like, um, no, she's gonna slow us down. Even though Charlotte is like, just leave her behind. Leave, wait, wait, am I awake?

SPEAKER_01 13:35

No, but that's what makes this so great.

SPEAKER_03 13:38

Even though even Charlotte is like, just leave me behind. Daniel is like, um, no, because I love you. Because I'm Daniel Faraday.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

I can't want to call him Michael Faraday, but anyway.

SPEAKER_03 13:51

Sawyer asks Locke what he wants to do if the orchid the orchid station isn't there anymore. But Charlotte is like, well, look for the well. You'll find it at the well. And they're all looking at her like, um, okay. But once again, they dismiss a woman and she turns out to be right. But anyway, the group of Robbie.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

I would be honory and abrasive too if my whole life was shut down. And she'll and later on she'll tell you the beginning of her being shut down.

SPEAKER_03 14:20

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

So, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:23

They arrive at the ruins of the orchid, placing them sometime much after the creation of the Dharma initiative. And Juliet's like, oh, lucky thing that we got here what we did, and then you get a flash. So you're like, you had to didn't say you had to say something.

SPEAKER_01 14:40

That was like my probably my favorite part of the whole episode.

SPEAKER_03 14:43

It's just so realistic. Like, it's just so natural of a comic.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

Like, you just had to say something. Yeah, we were done.

SPEAKER_03 14:53

That sounds like a exactly. We all would have said that.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

They sound like a very common when I say old, I don't mean age-wise, but they sound like a very old married couple. Well, there's definitely a comfort between them, and they get each other, and she just looked at him like, okay, whatever. Uh, I feel I think Kate would have had like snide to say, which at first is kind of cute, but she would have something to say every single time. It's like, okay, that's Juliet just like, okay, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 15:26

Yeah, she she's just like, yeah, whoops.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

So this is why like I think those two need to be a thing. I want those two to the thing.

SPEAKER_03 15:35

Uh Juliet and Sawyer.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

Yes. I don't know how Kate's gonna feel about that, but well, she can suck it up and get it. She has Jack.

SPEAKER_03 15:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

That's what she wanted anyway. I know, right?

SPEAKER_03 15:48

So after the flashes, the orchid obviously disappears, but something catches Locke's eye, and wouldn't you know it? It's a well. And Miles is like, hey, how'd Charlotte know about that? Meanwhile, Daniel is back with Charlotte. He's trying to comfort her because she's still experiencing the effects of the time flashes, and she tells Dana she grew up on the island. She mentions the Dharma initiative, and she describes moving to England with her mother, leaving behind her father whom she never saw again. Though her mother tried to convince her that she had merely imagined this place, Charlotte devoted her life to finding the island. She also confides in Dan that she remembers a crazy man from her childhood who scared her. The man told her that she must never come back to the island or she would die. And she realizes now that Daniel is that man. She lapses back into her childhood and utters that she's not allowed to have chocolate before dinner. And moments later, she dies. So this is where we realize Charlotte's connection.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

And I'm doing my told you so dance. Okay. Um for the short time she was on the episode, on the episode, on the series, episode series, same thing. They really, I don't know if it's just me putting plugging this in because it fits, or if this is something they thought about when they wrote her character. But she was gaslit by her mom with good intentions, probably, about the island. She chose a field, a career field where it's predominantly men. Um her abrasiveness is level two or where she should have been.

SPEAKER_03 17:59

Well, okay, so we realize that she was born on the island, she lived here as a kid, she left with her mom. And she never saw her dad again. So she mentions her parents. We have no idea who her parents were or why her mother wants her to believe that it never existed. So it's like we got another answer, like a really, a really quick answer, right? Like, how did Charlotte know it's here? Oh, Charlotte was lived here as a kid.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

I think this is one of those answers. If I don't get, they threw a little bit more questions in there, but if I don't get those answers, I'm okay with it. Like, I don't need to know. I mean, unless this has a direct correlation to what's happening, if I don't ever find out those details, I'm okay. Okay. Glad you said no, I'm just kidding. Oh shit. Glad you said it because you ain't getting shit. Okay. Julie noted.

SPEAKER_03 19:21

Back at the well, Locke attempts to climb down the rope, but Jin stops him. He threatens to cut the rope unless Locke promises not to bring Sun back. He tells Locke to tell Sun that he's dead, which is obviously a lie, but it's to prevent her from returning to the island. Loc is to tell Sun that he buried Jin's body after it washed up on shore. When Loc is unsure of how he'll convince her of this, he gives him his wedding ring. And after promising not to try to bring Sun, Loc says goodbye. And Sawyer helps him down the well. Loc goes down the hole. He begins descending the shaft. You never watch Tiny Tunes? Yeah. And Plucky Ducky Duck. Lucky goes down the hole. The ball go down the hole.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

That's my biggest fear with the grandkids now, because I have flashbacks of Tiny Tunes. And I'm like, um yeah, this keep I keep the things down. Well, I keep the tops down because the cats. Cat. Anyway, so it's now just a habit. And do you know every time you flush, like I always close it back before I flush? Because you know how much fecal matter and stuff comes up after doing a flush. If you want to know how much shit comes up on the toilet after you flush, use those like the blue toilet drop-ins. You know, as normal. Close your top down. You flush, use your bathroom, flush it, whatever. And you'll notice the top of that the seat is all blue splashes. That should give you an idea of what comes up if you don't close your toilet seat before flushing.

SPEAKER_03 21:11

This has been Agnes's toilet corner.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

You started with Plucky Duck.

SPEAKER_03 21:17

And you went down the toilet. I was I was referring merely referring to the scene where he plays miniature golf.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

Okay. But I was thinking about the one where he was throwing things down the toilet. Yeah, because your brain is in the toilet. Because that's the scene where he goes, bold, like he does, he puts everything down the toilet and it causes a big flake goes, Rubba Ducky, Rubaducky goes down the hole.

SPEAKER_03 21:40

Or the elevator go down the hole. Either way, I still wasn't talking about the toilet.

SPEAKER_01 21:45

But okay. Whatever. My scene I thought about, he was pushing, he was going everything down the toilet. That was that was the episode I was thinking about.

SPEAKER_03 21:53

All right, can we talk about going down a well?

SPEAKER_01 21:57

Fucking Alice in Wonderland. Let's go.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

Alice doesn't go down a well, she goes down a hole, also. She could still go down fucking holes.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

The only thing between a well and a hole is that the well has a little brick stiff to let you know that there's a hole.

SPEAKER_03 22:14

It's a hoo as Locke begins descending the shaft. Well, okay then. The sky brightens.

SPEAKER_00 22:21

That sound is so dirty.

SPEAKER_03 22:23

I'm so sorry. And there's a light at the bottom of the well. As the flash occurs and the time period changes, the top part of the well becomes filled in. The rope is severed and locked falls. And you see Sawyer like the Miles is like, um, I think you can look like go now. Like, oh shit, it's all filled in. Right. Oh man.

SPEAKER_01 22:51

I felt the the okay, maybe because I think everyone's dead anyway. Him lock looking down the end of the hole, which based on the angle, looks like going down a tunnel. The light at the end of the tunnel. Don't go into the light. Like it just kind of just all falls into they're already dead. Okay, that's it.

SPEAKER_03 23:13

So now we know we've gone back in time. Because the well is not there anymore. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

I just had a flashback. When you said back in time, it was thinking about the theme song, the one the songs to um Batch the Future.

SPEAKER_03 23:26

Going back. We're never gonna finish. You're frozen. Oh, there you know. Okay. Sawyer discovers that the rope he's holding leads to solid dirt. The well is gone, and Sawyer frantically tries to dig at the ground, but Juliet is like, um, no, just stop. Did you think that you were gonna like her this much when you first met her? She's so the voice of reason.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

I don't remember my thoughts on her when she first came up. It was like a hundred years ago.

SPEAKER_03 24:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

In like our lives, so much has happened, so I don't remember.

SPEAKER_03 24:07

Locke has fallen into a cavern below the well that appears to be the frozen wheel room, and he suffered a compound fracture to his shin. Christian Shepherd appears and chides Locke for allowing Ben to turn the wheel when Christian told Locke to do it himself. He tells Locke that he must find everyone who left the island and take them to Eloise Hawken. When Locke asks about Richard's statement that he would have to die, Christian responds, I suppose that's why they call it sacrifice. He instructs Locke to fix the frozen wheel, saying it's off its axis. After unsuccessfully asking Christian for assistance, Locke struggles around the corner where he witnesses the wheel rocking back and forth and emitting flashes of green light. Hieroglyphs are visible in the background, and Loc pulls the wheel back into alignment as Christian says to say hello to his son. Loc is like, Well, who's your son? But you know, as usual, he doesn't he doesn't get an answer. Off the island, Sun talks on the phone with her mother and G Yun, who are back in Korea. Sun tells her daughter that she misses her and that she'll she met a new friend back in America. Obviously, she's talking about Aaron. After finishing the conversation, Sun pulls out her gun and goes to threaten Ben. He tells Sun that Jin is alive and he can prove it. Sun yells back at Ben that she has spent the last three years believing Jin was dead. Kate's freaking out because she's like, well, where's Aaron? So she goes, she gets Aaron, she puts him in the car, and Ben explains that someone, would you look at that? Here in Los Angeles has proof. He'll take her and show her the truth. And it turns out it's going to be the same person that will show them how to get back to the island. Oh a Kawinky think. Yeah, look at that. Kate begins to argue with Jack, accusing him of pretending to care about Aaron and her just to get them to go back. Jack is like, I was never pretending. Kate's like, fuck that. I'm out. She takes a kid and she leaves. Say is like, yeah, I'm doing this shit either. And he leaves. And he warns Jack he doesn't want to see him or Ben again. So Ben's son and Jack, who are left there. Wait. So Ben's son and Jack are left there. And Son tells Ben, Take me to your leader. No, she's like, Take me where you can show me the proof. Ben drives the Canton Rayner van, aka the reincarnation anagram van, to the church where Eloise Hawking is known to reside. Jack apologizes to Son for leaving Jin behind and that she should have waited for him. And Sun is like, Well, why are you telling me this now? Is it because you want you you don't want me to kill Ben? Jack is like, Well, actually, after what he just did to Kate, if you don't do it, I will. And Ben is like, stomp on those brakes. Ben is like, um, I've been trying to keep you guys safe. And if you knew what I had done to you, you would never stop thanking me. What'd you do, Ben? Because we're gonna like it.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Pictures put everything into motion to quote unquote save them.

SPEAKER_03 27:54

Yeah, but you know what? It's one of those things where you're like, Ben, really, pictures, or it didn't happen because we know you, right.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

Ben, we know you like the putting Aaron and Kate's in jeopardy. That was Ben, right? Um, the people outside the door, like I don't know. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:20

After arriving at the church, Ben pulls out Jin's wedding wedding ring. So you mean you could have proved this at the marina? Got it. But like in Ben fashion, he held, you know, he held his cards. He gives it to Sun and saying he was sorry he had to hold it till now, but that it was given to him by Locke. Jack is like, um wait. Jack brings up that Ben said Locke never went to see him, and Ben is like, Well, no, he didn't come to see me. I went to see him. He's like, What are you for?

SPEAKER_01 29:03

Like, well, as one of those, well, I didn't lie.

SPEAKER_03 29:10

Right, right. So Ben tells Jack and Son that they need to help all of the people that they left on the island, and says that the woman in the church can help them get back, but that time is running out. Son looks at the ring in her hand and she agrees. Just then Desmond approaches and asks what they're doing here. He says, Are you looking for Faraday's mother too?

SPEAKER_01 29:41

Did you see that one coming? I did not know that Ben didn't know who she was. And so he's like, uh, okay. Interesting. Um, I didn't know he didn't know. Um, oh, oh, did I think Faraday's mom was the same woman? Yeah. She's like, she's a liar. No, I knew the same person. I wasn't surprised when I saw him. I didn't think Ben didn't know who she was. Because with the odds that he's in LA talking to this woman, and they're like, oh, she's in LA. I'm like, okay, same woman. All right, fine, let's move on.

SPEAKER_03 30:16

A stunned Ben doesn't answer him and enters the church. The rest follow shortly, and they find Eloise lighting votive candles. She asks why only four of them are here, and Ben is like, Well, this is all I can get on short notice. And she replies, Well, I suppose it will have to do for now. All right, let's get started. And she smiles. So you think that Ben was surprised because he doesn't know that that was Faraday's mother?

SPEAKER_01 30:45

Um the way he said, Okay, first the surprise was I had to think about like, was he surprised that Desmond knew, or was he surprised that because he didn't know who she was? And then he's like, hello, Eloise. Kind of gave the the impression, was like, oh, okay. Did he mention her name the first time he saw her? I don't remember. Just the way he said hello.

SPEAKER_03 31:16

Well, we haven't, we haven't I don't believe that we've heard her first name up until now.

SPEAKER_01 31:25

Okay, so we don't know. Okay, it's the way he said Eloise, like accusatory. So that's why I don't think she the connection clicked. That okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:39

This is actually the first episode of the entire series in which Ben and Desmond speak to each other. They had previously only been in one scene together, and it's also the first episode of the entire series to feature Ben and Sun speaking to each other, even though both were in the same locations during the beginning of the end. This episode is only the second episode. Only the second, sorry, this episode is also only the second time Locke and Jin have spoken to each other in the entire series. Wow. This is the second episode to not feature any flashbacks or flash forwards, not counting the transitions between the you know, on island, off island, and the other one count.

SPEAKER_01 32:35

The other one as Island's actually switching doesn't count.

SPEAKER_03 32:39

Right. And the other one being the constant. And this is the second episode of Lost to not feature any new characters, and the other one was the Brig. Sun says that she wants to kill Ben because she believes that Ben is responsible for killing Jin. Yet she had no way of knowing that Ben was the one who killed Kimi, causing the destruction of the ship. I still think so.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

Wait, at this point, oh right, we assume that Locke saw her, but obviously he well, is it possible that he did see her and didn't give her the ring? No, that's the pause. The whole point of having the ring was to convince her. So how does she know?

SPEAKER_03 33:29

Right, because from what she knows, Charles Whidmore would be much more responsible for Jin's apparent death. But when she met him, she seemed to have no problem with him.

SPEAKER_01 33:42

So how does she know that Ben? Because we just assumed it was Locke told her. Right. Unless Locke left her a letter. I don't know. I don't fucking know.

SPEAKER_03 33:58

Unless Ben is just like the catch all, you know, for blame.

SPEAKER_01 34:02

And she just happens to be right. Excuse me. Confusion. Okay, I don't need to know details. Do we find out how she knows that Ben was directly involved?

SPEAKER_03 34:20

I don't remember.

SPEAKER_01 34:21

Okay. See, I never would have thought about it if you didn't bring it up. It would have been a lost puzzle, and I never would have cared about it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 34:30

You're welcome. John has repeatedly stated that Boone was the sacrifice the island demanded. But in leaving the island and eventually dying to bring the others back, John becomes a sacrifice to the island. And in another little bit of irony for Locke, remember he was in a wheelchair when he landed on the island. He was crippled.

SPEAKER_01 34:56

Right.

SPEAKER_03 35:00

When he's leaving the island, he's also got leg issues. He's got a fracture.

SPEAKER_01 35:07

Dude. Okay, maybe I'm just going straight to hell. Oh. And I know. The six. Knowing, pretty sure, 99% sure, that all the intrigue and all that other bullshit that's causing people to be like people waiting outside the net house and all the other stuff, 99% chance orchestrated by Ben. Okay. And you're like, okay, fine. Nothing, no one's after us. I can live here in peace. Maybe it's just me. I would live here in peace and not go back to the island and call it a fucking day. Because if that if that I I I I wouldn't go back. I'm sorry. Me going back might save their lives. Maybe, possibly. And what kind of danger are we gonna be in? And what kind of lives are in danger we're gonna be in if we do go back? Hmm. Um, especially Kate has a kid to think about, son has a kid to think about. Oh well, so sorry for you on the island. I'm staying here. And how is me going back going to save anyone? Like, how does us be on the island set it from flashing? I you could not get me back on the island. Couldn't. Could it? And then, son, yes, your husband might be alive. Do you really think he's gonna want you to A, leave your kid to come get to come be with him? Or B, bring your kid, which is what like whatever. There's no right answer. Okay, stay with your kid. Okay, that's just my opinion. Stay in civilization unless it's 2024. Then you're like, yeah, I'm going back to the fucking island.

SPEAKER_03 37:12

So there's um some connections we see that Jin finds the music box and the wreckage, and then that that goes back to like the first season, you know. Remember Dan Daniel's lab rat was named Eloise? Oh, right, right, right. Did he name the rat after his mom?

SPEAKER_01 37:37

Actually, there's something my mother in theory, she would appreciate that. Like the irony, like it's not necessarily a lab rat per se, but to name something, yeah, she would appreciate that.

SPEAKER_03 37:50

I don't think Daniel's mother has the sense of humor your mother did, though.

SPEAKER_02 37:56

So there's that.

SPEAKER_03 37:58

Um a time shift prevents Locke from hearing sorry, a time shift prevents Locke from learning the identity of Christian's son, just like it prevented Desmond from learning the identity of Daniel's mother. So just some little, you know, whatever. But now we know the connection between well, we know who Daniel's mother is, but that doesn't necessarily explain questions what her connection to the island is, why she or how she knows Ben, you know, how they became to work together, and why in Desmond's past she seemed to be kind of the puppet master with the ring for Penny.

SPEAKER_01 39:07

Kind of just completely random. Like right. Maybe it was just she it was just a situation to allow herself to make herself memorable.

SPEAKER_03 39:22

Well, for what reason?

SPEAKER_01 39:25

Because she knew this was going to happen. She knew this scene was gonna happen. Listen, if Daniel could have been Daniel's age or younger when Charlotte was a five-year-old, why couldn't she know this moment was gonna happen? Okay, none of it makes sense because they're all dead anyway, so it doesn't make a difference.

SPEAKER_03 39:54

So if they're all dead anyway, how did Charlotte die?

SPEAKER_01 39:58

She this is death purgatory-ish, and when they die on the island, they actually die, die. I think I've had the same conversation like season one, I think. All right, we're we're done. It's anything that makes sense. Okay, it answers all the questions that don't make sense. It doesn't make sense, does it anyway?

SPEAKER_03 40:19

Of course, it would answer all the questions, just the same way you get to like the end of a season a season uh series, and they're like, Oh, it was all a dream. Yeah, well, then anything can fucking make sense, but like that's such a cop-out shit.

SPEAKER_00 40:33

Who killed JR? Who shot JR? And it was a dream, yes. Uh all right.

SPEAKER_03 40:42

The next episode is called 316, like 316. The numbers, like not the numbers, but numbers, you know.

SPEAKER_01 40:52

Numbers, yes, because you have a fascination with numbers.

SPEAKER_03 40:55

No, I don't. The show does, and these are not the numbers, anyway. But you have fascination with numbers by way of the show.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

Fine. Can I tell you how cute my grandson is? So I had him the other day, and they were they were both being good, and I have my graduation picture mounted. Um, so I'm kind of like distracted with Angel, the youngest one. Axel looks at my graduation picture. He goes, Yeah, yeah, is that you? And I looked where he's looking.

SPEAKER_00 41:28

I said, Yeah. He goes, You were a princess? And I was just like, I love my babies. I just want to see how cute my babies are.

SPEAKER_01 41:42

I am not a princess if you see me today.

SPEAKER_03 41:45

That's why we are on audio, not visual.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

Unless I was like in the dungeon for like 20 years.

SPEAKER_03 41:55

All right. Any uh any last thoughts on this episode?

SPEAKER_01 42:00

No. Pretty self-explanatory-ish for lost. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:05

This is on a lost like standard, it's self-explanatory. Right. This is this is season five lost. We are we are in all the dooziness, but we're getting answers. We got questions, but we're getting answers. So we're on our way.

SPEAKER_01 42:22

There's no season one, season two, season three, angst.

SPEAKER_03 42:26

But but if but it feels like where a season one, season two, it was just like every episode, it was like, oh, here more shit that is like, wait, but what is this? What is that? Why is this? Why is that?

SPEAKER_01 42:39

And then you're adding more questions, and this is ridiculous.

SPEAKER_03 42:43

But now it's starting to feel like, oh, okay, I think this is gonna go here, and this is gonna go here. And and even for the stuff that we don't quite have an answer yet, it's starting to feel like we're getting closer without it feeling there is some cohesiveness that the other the yeah. Okay, all right. Well, yeah, join us back here for the next episode, and we'll see if Agnes still feels that way.

SPEAKER_00 43:16

And that does not bode well.

SPEAKER_03 43:19

And until then, we remind you to drink responsibly. Don't drink and drive, don't drink and operate heavy machinery. I don't know. Um go to assassinsips.com. You can link from there, you can link over to all of our socials, all the way to get in touch with us, and all the ways to find this podcast that you've clearly found because you're listening to it.

SPEAKER_01 43:48

She's been watching Lost a little too long, people.

SPEAKER_03 43:52

Well, maybe I've just been drinking too much. Oh, not enough. Or not enough. And anyway, we'll see you next time. And until then, I'm Lisa.

SPEAKER_01 44:02

And I'm Agnes. And we're out of here. See you later. Bye.