LOST ?

SPEAKER_02 0:09

Hi, welcome to this episode of Jackson's Tips. Where every episode we will be discussing and dissecting an episode of Lost in Order. We are your hosts. I'm Lisa.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

And I'm Agnes.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

And today's episode is Question Mark. Literally.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

What are you drinking today?

SPEAKER_01 0:32

I'm drinking my happy coffee. This is what happens when we broke the crack the ass crack of dawn. Speaking of self, I have a bottle of wine here. Well, what's left of it? I'm so proud to be to be caught to be your friend.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

Yeah, I was drinking this baby and intermittently all night, so who needs friends when you have wine? You know? So I got a Cabernet Sauvignon. Sauvignon. Sauvignon. Yeah. Alright.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

So I I told you that I was going to like get on you, and I keep forgetting. So now what I have to get on you. This woman has never seen The Godfather. Unacceptable. And every time it's on, like Lisa, it's on. By the way, it's on.

SPEAKER_02 1:28

I was out yesterday when you text me.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

And the time before that, whatever time before that. So I'm watching it now at least. But everyone in the world has seen The Godfather. Well, apparently not everyone. Thank you. You're Lisa. You're not people.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

In some circles, I don't exist, so I wish I didn't exist sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

I don't I don't exist. You don't get my whole war time consiglieri references.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

I mean, not specifically, but I get the gist of it. Not the same. Alright. I suppose eventually I'll watch it, but I'm going to like tie you up.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

That's it. I'm going to drive all the way to New York and tie you up and play the Godfather one, two, and three. Now three wasn't the best. It was okay. It wasn't like if no one saw three, it's okay. But I'm gonna make you watch all three of them. Like misery style? Misery style.

SPEAKER_02 2:33

But instead of haunting you. But like don't break my ankles. You can chain me to the bed, but don't break my ankles.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

You freak. I'm gonna change you to I'm gonna like tie you to the bed and put have a funnel. It's like a pour alcohol down your throat. Fun times. Yeah, I mean, where's the threat? Don't threaten me with a good time. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 2:55

Where exactly am I supposed to be threatened by this? I never said it was a threat. But yeah, because like forces me to lay in bed for a good day, watch a watch a few movies, and feed me alcohol. At least what I'm hearing.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

I mean, at least nine hours, nine, ten hours. Okay. True. All right. I guess. So aren't you excited? I have a new I have a new theory on lost.

SPEAKER_02 3:27

I am. I wanna I can't wait to hear it. I haven't heard it yet.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

So, because I am like a complete geek, I'm re-watching The Matrix. I'm like, okay, fine. The plane never crashed, and they have some kind they're like they are like hypnotized or in a coma or some kind of medically induced thing of a bobby, and they're made to think that they're crashed on the island. But when something happens in real life, they I don't know. I was watching The Matrix, I told you the Matrix. It was all about the Matrix. Like it's it's you see the Matrix, right?

SPEAKER_03 4:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

Okay, so yeah, like so. But back to my it's probably they're probably already dead, and this is purgatory. And on that note another question about the matrix. Things that make you go, hmm, suck. They trust the oracle. But how do you trust the oracle if she's still hooked up to the matrix?

SPEAKER_02 4:32

Are you asking a serious question? Because I don't have an answer.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

No, it's not a serious. There is no answer to this question. It's just something that makes you go, hmm. Okay. Let's get back to Lost episode, not my brain. I got holes in my brain. I have an excuse of being stupid.

SPEAKER_02 4:56

In flashback, Mr. Echo, posing as a priest and going by the name Father Tunde, takes confession from a man who seems to confess adultery, but reveals he has a forged Australian passport for Mr. Echo to enter the United States. Another priest tells him the trip to the US is delayed as a miracle has happened. A woman has claimed that her child drowned in a river, but was reset but was resurrected the next day. He informs Mr. Echo that he has been chosen to start an investigation of the claim. After meeting the mother, Mr. Echo tells the Monsignor that he is not a good choice because he does not believe the claim. The Monsignor, however, explains that this is exactly why he was chosen. We don't figure out how Echo got to Australia.

SPEAKER_01 5:56

Like you know, right. But then here's another question. Why was he going to LA anyway? True. We don't have an answer for that. Interesting. Okay. My bra's too tight.

SPEAKER_02 6:11

You should just take it off. I'm not wearing one.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

You know what? It hurts when I don't wear a bra. Like the weight.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

That's a big city problem.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

I ain't got that problem. But they're not that. But you know, okay, so it's funny. My bra size, you would think they're big, but they're not that big. Like you've you've been around me. They're not like I'm not like tilting over.

SPEAKER_02 6:36

Well, no, but I mean, like, okay, on a good day, I could fit into a D cup. And these are not like what you would imagine a D looks like.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Right, because I find that bra sizes over the years have changed. I remember my mother's Fred, she's like her aunt to me. She passed away. I love you. She we used to tease us. She had like these huge titties. Like titties that could like could like rest your arm, like when you cross, you can't cross your chest because they just sit on your titties. And I think she was like a double D at the time. But you or you know, but she wasn't like EFG, but they were like, by today's standards, they would be. Yeah. But it's kind of awkward, like looking like this is like maybe 30, 40 years ago. Did I say that out loud? I did. Um, like the bras is definitely have I feel, I feel have changed. I might be wrong. It might have been a whole generation of people not wearing the right cur the correct size bras. I don't know. But yeah, it's not the same.

SPEAKER_02 7:36

I I agree. But I also think that it's just yeah, maybe it's like more like what you said. Maybe it's not like people wearing the right sizes.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

But okay, I'm trying to think. As a child, you know, we sort of like you you watch your parents or you watch your your aunts or whatever get dressed, and in my mind's eye, I feel like the bra fit her like it was supposed to fit her. You know what I mean? Like, you know. So I'm like, it just I don't know, it's weird.

SPEAKER_02 8:05

It must be See, but I also think that like um I know for me specifically, um, I used to wear the wrong size around. And I think a lot a lot of people make that mistake because they go up a size in band and down a size in cup.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

Not good, because it doesn't really give you the support you need for the boobies.

SPEAKER_02 8:28

Right. But so then when I when I got resized and I was like, oh shit, like uh actually this works a lot better, but then my cup size goes up and I'm like, oh, but I'm not well, I guess I am. Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

And it just seems like it like incongruent, but maybe, maybe it is a generation of nuts, but she still looked a lot huger.

SPEAKER_02 8:54

That being said, it could also be the types of bras, like the the way the bras were made.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

Maybe, maybe this um I don't want to offend anybody, like the old lady bras, they look like torpedoes, your titties look like Well what's the name, Miss G?

SPEAKER_02 9:08

Uh yes, my little chickadees, yes. Those things, oh my god, you would lose an eye on those things.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

And then because my mom's like, just why don't you go to these that why go to this store to get a bra? I said, Because I don't like the way they're made, they made my titties look like torpedo titties. I don't want that shape, and I find that they're all the old lady bras, and though, and that's the easiest bra to get in my size without spending a fortune.

SPEAKER_02 9:33

I just got a new bra in the mix awesome.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

It's like spending a fortune for a good bra or spending less than a fortune for it's still a good bra, but it's oh, see, I can add these.

SPEAKER_02 9:47

That's so cute. Yeah, I mean I love those. It it doesn't have a a thing, you gotta put it on over your head.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

But I know that you could throw like one of those like tank tops loose over like the those exactly. I love those, but I can't wear them. I hate you.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

Well, sorry. That's my third, that's my third one. So now I have it in pink, black, and green.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

The my child always had p titties, and she learned the hard way. Good. She learned the hard way. I'm like, you can't. I told her I said that's not gonna, you can't wear that. She's like, Yes, I can. It fits. I'm like, you can't wear that, and it looked like like yeast buddy, you know. I was like, don't you?

SPEAKER_02 10:30

Yeah, I did have to go up in a size in those. But then it was a medium. Now I'm a large.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Look at that, titty. You got you don't you don't have mosquito bites?

SPEAKER_02 10:43

Well, I do. I just have a little extra mosquito bite. At least on one side.

SPEAKER_01 10:52

Okay, why? I forgot what we were talking about. Back to Lost. I saw Yeah, where the fuck is my paper? Oh, he's thinking. We just completely like the show.

SPEAKER_02 11:01

I know. How did I even know how we got I'm sure it was my fault. Probably, but still. Alright. Um Echo interviews the medical examiner about his account of the miracle. The examiner informs a skeptical Mr. Echo that the girl was wait. Okay, the medical examiner informs a skeptical Mr. Echo that the girl came back to life during the autopsy and provides an audio tape as supporting evidence. When you watched it, did you get startled by the scream?

SPEAKER_00 11:46

No.

SPEAKER_01 11:50

Because she because he said that, you know, I found out at the doing the autopsy. So I'm like, oh, we cut into her, she woke up. Like, you know, so no, I was kind of expecting the scream.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

Echo visits the family who reported the miracle, and the mother comes out and informs him that it's not an appropriate time for him to visit. The father comes out, who we should recognize, and orders his wife and child to go back inside. He tells Echo the whole incident was simply a misunderstanding. He claims that his wife knows that his psychic services are fraud, and that she is a fanatic and was making the claim to spite him. How do you feel about him saying that he's a fraud?

SPEAKER_01 13:03

Um, we kind of figured it out already.

SPEAKER_02 13:05

Um Well, I don't know, did we?

SPEAKER_01 13:08

I thought I I kind of assumed he was. Because the last time that we saw him, I mean, he's telling her about how the bad kid was Eve, like give her the kid, and that's you know, he sends her on a plane that ended up crashing. You kind of feel those kind of plans.

SPEAKER_02 13:20

You can't have the baby raised by another. You have to raise this baby, blah blah blah. And then he puts her on, he tells her it has to be this flight, and then the flight crashes, and it she's like all but guaranteed to raise this baby by herself if if she survives.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

So here's a question things that make you go, hmm. Is he really a fraud though? Or did he have a moment of oh shit, this actually happened, like this shit is real. Like, was Claire's situ did he go into it as like this profession as a fraud, and then here comes Claire and he's like, oh fuck. So, or maybe he really isn't a fraud, but he just tells his family that he's a fraud. He just goes, like, who fucking knows? Does he get back? I mean I don't know. I kind of I don't know. I just like it's a 50-50 split to begin with, like raised by another, it was already like 50-50. So you're like, meh. So when he's like, so when he comes in this episode, he's like, My father's a backup and a fraud. I'm like, okay, there you go.

SPEAKER_02 14:28

Oh, because either way, he's he's either lying to Claire or he's lying to Echo.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

Right.

SPEAKER_02 14:33

So it's which lie do you believe? Um you know what I mean? Like that's what it comes down to. He's saying two opposite things, so you have to choose which one do you believe.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

Because this is lost, I think he's lying to I Okay, you're asking me now because I saw the whole episode. But at this point, okay, let's be okay. I'm gonna be honest. At this point, I was kind of like, meh, I didn't give much thought to it. By the end of the episode, I was like, oh, he lied to Echo. I don't think he's a fraud.

SPEAKER_02 15:09

So I don't think he's a fraud either, but Okay. I just thought like I was just curious, like, your opinion, just because his two his two his two points of view contradict themselves. So I just was wondering like how you felt about it.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

I did you know, I I don't think I thought about it until now. That's funny, because I was just watching it. But yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because he seems so not always he seems so unbelievable, but the way he and uh raised by another his actions led to exactly what he said should happen. Excuse me.

SPEAKER_02 15:58

Um so you're like happy accident or a true and utter and he was so adamant. I mean, he he offered to give her the money back, and then you know, so he was kind of like ready to like wash his hands of her, but then at the same time, he kept going, where he kept calling her and telling her, like he could have very easily washed his hands of her, good point, and and went on his way, but he was the one who pursued her.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

Okay, here's the other question, and this is not this is just me being silly. A good con makes you makes you think it's your idea, you know what I mean? Like if he was if he's going for the long term, like maybe in theory, I'm not saying that that's what he did. Yeah, but if he was trying to get her to come back to spend more money with him, that's the actions he would have taken. Hmm if you want to play devil's advocate. I I believe you. I'm on I'm on your side with this.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

I don't think that calling her in the middle of the night would would be very good to get her to spend more money. I think that at the beginning, maybe he was like, Oh, I can't do this. Here's your money back, go. I think that would be a perfect way to get her to come back because she did. But then the middle of the night forward, he he was he was alienating her. I mean, it was kind of I don't want to say a miracle because that's kind of like two on the nose, but it is kind of like some lucky part of event that made her finally listen to him. I mean, but again, it was like he handed her plane tickets, he wasn't even making money off of it.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

No, you're right. No, that's true, that's a good point. But like I said, I I'm on your side. I I completely agree with you on that because the odds that he was just guessing it and bullshitting her, like, come on. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:04

Either that or when this happened, it scared him because maybe it was too close to home, maybe like because his his his daughter was having a vision that's exactly what happened.

SPEAKER_01 18:18

The whole situation was too close to home. He's like, gotta go, just leave fraud. Like, I think that's exactly what it was in this situation. I concur. I concur. But I was like, ha, I know who he is. At least not at least he's not gonna think I I caught it. I mean the next thing I probably want I wouldn't have caught, whatever it is. I probably missed it.

SPEAKER_02 18:44

Echo tells him that he will report that the incident was not a miracle as he leaves, and he sees the daughter staring at him from the window. He tells him that the most important thing is that she's alive.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

Question What if he had a vision with Echo and knows he has to be on that plane too? So he's like, gotta go. Like maybe he lied, maybe something his daughter saw, maybe something she saw in the in in in the in-between worlds, and he's like, You have to go because he knows that he has to be in that plane. Probably not. I didn't consider it, but I mean, okay. I have like brain frauds sometimes. I have good ideas.

SPEAKER_02 19:27

Mr. Echo picks up his tickets for the flight while he is at the Oceanic Airlines terminal. As he begins to walk away from the ticket desk, the girl who supposedly drowned confronts him. She informs him that his brother Yemi contacted her when she was between places. She says she knows that Echo is not really a priest, but he should have faith in himself anyway, as Yemi still does. Echo begins to angrily question her as to how she knows about Yemi, but Libby overhears him and asks them if everything is alright. Echo shrugs it off and leaves. We have her telling him about Yemi, and she said I don't remember the exact words, but basically um she tells him that Yemi still believes in him and that it won't be long before he he sees him again.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Right.

SPEAKER_02 20:25

Which is very ominous. I mean, and and actually right on the nose, because then when he got to the island, he saw him not only in his dreams, but literally in the plane. Like he found his physical body. So I mean But the fact but like even if he couldn't know that at the airport, the fact that she knew his brother's name, the fact that he wasn't really a priest, and and the simple fact that his brother believed in him was enough to I guess get him to question the validity of her claim, of her saying this. So, you know. And then we have Libby making an appearance in another flashback. This is what her second one?

SPEAKER_01 21:19

Yes, the Hurley one, and then this one, yes. Because I don't we don't ever get her story though, do we? They never tell you about her story, do they? No. That's sad.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

I know I know that she appears in a few flashbacks, and I remember her in Dave. Do I wanna know?

SPEAKER_01 21:47

I just look because I've never worn a tank top when I'm doing this with you, so now I'm like, oh god, this is ridiculous. Well then don't do this, and nobody will see. But I see it even not doing it. I want to see how I don't know what broad this is, but I gotta tell you, this looks really good. Okay, bye. I like my tits, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 22:13

She was a Dave, right? She wasn't Dave, right? The hurley after that. Is that the first time that we see her? Shit. Now I'm like, I feel like this might have been the third.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

One, but I can't well I can't think about I don't even know when she was let well let me look at my notes and see if I made any kind of conversation in Okay, so Dave.

SPEAKER_02 22:49

Question mark. Yeah. That's it. Mm-hmm. Yeah, okay. And so they mentioned that she's in three. Right? Three? Yeah, I I'm pretty sure that it says maybe in a future, maybe another episode.

SPEAKER_01 23:09

Right.

SPEAKER_02 23:10

Yeah, I can I can I remember the other episode that we see her in. But for some reason, I guess I thought it was um yeah, I guess I thought it was like more.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

Okay, so is she one of the only and I say major relatively speaking, is she one is she the only major character that we don't get her own personal flashback? Maybe. Because of all the Taylor's, we get their personal flashbacks. Yeah, I mean, we got Anna Lucia. We got Echo. We got Echo. I mean, that was it. There's just those three don't Bernard and vote. Yeah, so that's sad. Why did they give her her own flashback? Unacceptable behavior.

SPEAKER_02 23:55

I know. I I would have liked to have seen um like because obviously she was a psychotherapist or something, a clinical psychiatrist, so whatever.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

Obviously, she did end up in was it St. Rose, Santa Rosa's? Mm-hmm. Good good memory. Thank you. So I'm like, I want to know her story, or I will never find out. All right.

SPEAKER_02 24:19

Well, I mean, we get like bits and pieces. I mean, this this one doesn't really give us anything.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

No.

SPEAKER_02 24:26

Uh at all. We get a little piece of it in um Dave because we know that we know that she was in the mental health um hospital. And then the next one that we'll see her in, we'll get like just a tad bit more.

SPEAKER_01 24:47

But it's yeah, it's not as much as like, you know, a whole flashback episode of our history.

SPEAKER_02 24:55

Right. Yeah. On the island, Echo is chopping wood with his axe on the beach, continuing to build his church. Anna Lucia appears on the beach and asks him what he is building. Echo explains that the idea of a church came from a dream, and Anna Lucia responds, A dream like this one. Echo then notices she has a bullet hole and is bleeding from her stomach and from her mouth. She tells Echo, You need to help John. Echo's dream travels to the swan where he finds his dead brother Yemi sitting at the computer. Yemi tells Echo that Locke has lost his way and that Echo needs Loc to take him to the question mark. He also tells him to bring the axe. The room starts to violently shake. The timer has reached the red and black tiles, but now the hieroglyphics are replaced by question marks. Echo sees Anna Lucia in the dream.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

Girl, like this one thing to dream of someone who's dead that you know is dead, or to dream of a dead person that you don't know that's dead and the exact wound. Fuck it freaky. Mm-hmm. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 26:13

The letters on the computer keys have also been replaced with question marks. Echo wakes up hyperventilating, and Charlie, sleeping nearby on the beach, turns over and asks, What's the matter? Locke, Sawyer, Kate, and Jack are moving through the jungle when Michael stumbles out of the hatch, claiming he had been shot in the arm by a person unknown to him. The group enters the hatch and begins to investigate. Echo appears with his axe and offers his help. Sawyer and Kate discover Anna Lucia slumped on the couch and Libby on the floor, both with gunshot wounds. Kate tells Jack that Anna Lucia is dead. Libby coughs up a mouthful of blood and Jack rushes to treat her as fear crosses Michael's face. Echo prays over Anna Lucia as Locke looks on. Jack insists that they go after Henry, whom Michael says he left only a half hour earlier. Sawyer insists that Jack remain and tend to Libby's condition. Echo offers to track down Henry Gale with Locke as he can track and they set off. Locke cannot find the trail, but Echo lies that he has found it. So Loc follows him. Loc wonders what Echo is following as he realizes that there really is no trail. Loc prepares to head back, but Echo asks Locke to take him to the question mark. When Loc refuses, Echo headbutts him and knocks him out. You don't say no to Mr. Echo. Like, haven't any of them learned this yet?

SPEAKER_01 27:45

You don't say no to him. And that that's uh he's like the personification of speak soft thing, carry a big stick. But he is the big stick. Like, you know what I mean? He is literally the big stick. So you're like, okay. Yeah. Although I'm that type of girl, I'd like I that I like to question people, but I want to know the whys. I want to understand. Like, I might still I just need to understand what I'm getting myself into. I'm still down for it, but give me some like, am I right or die? Like, do we have to die? Can we kill instead of die? Like any other options for this chip to go, you know, does it all go left?

SPEAKER_02 28:29

Like I don't know. I think my only question is like, will we stop for food?

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Right. That's like like questioning you doesn't mean I'm not down, but I'm like, and food. And do I get a picking? And what will it be beer? Will it be alcohol? Like, I just need to know. I may be able to make this ex this journey more endurable. I might have some suggestions to make it more fun. Some shit we can get into. You know we need we need a road trip. We would have to have we would literally have to have like that emergency phone call that we know that number by heart because we're gonna like listen, it yeah, I done did it. All right, when and where like yeah, I need that person.

SPEAKER_02 29:26

But the problem is we need a reliable person to answer the phone. The only person well, the two people's numbers that I know by heart are Alex and my mom. And if I was in an emergency, I would not call Alex because he never answers his phone.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

So I'll call my mother's good that way because she can she'll get me to answer her phone, and this woman works magic. She would get me out in a heartbeat before I don't hit before. So yeah, she's like the person to call when shit go when shit hits the fan. That I bet you need to call. She needs so I just have to remember her. She had to change her number, and the number she's had, she's had for like I think it was her only cell phone number. So I know like now this one is a fucking 262 number. So I'm like, I don't know it. So I gotta learn it.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

Like it's about to take the chance our chances with my mom. No usually answers her phone.

SPEAKER_01 30:22

Oh well, I could write it. I'll I'll put it somewhere on my back on my purse. You know, like I'll tattooed on my thigh or something. I don't know. Sharpie.

SPEAKER_02 30:29

When my kids, yeah, when they were younger and they would go on school trips, I would write my emergency information with the Sharpie on their arms. Because God forbid they got lost. I would tell them, like, you anybody, you tell them to call this number, and it would have my name, and you know, see well, just just like my first name, but you know, I sometimes I wouldn't even write my name because like I don't want anybody to be like, Oh yeah, your mom is Lisa, and she said like mom, and it's the phone number, right?

SPEAKER_01 31:07

But you know what, and I still use it to this day with my kid with my brat. I don't know if she ever remembers it, but I still use it. We had because you know, we're the latchkey kid generation, um, code words. We had oh yes, still have code words, and my kids also we had the code words, and like if anything, they have to have his code. And I doubt my brother even I think at the time he probably didn't remember it because he's like whatever. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:34

Yeah, they knew if anyone ever came to pick you up from school and you weren't expecting them, you ask them what's the word, and if they don't know it, you do not go with them.

SPEAKER_01 31:44

Even if you know them, even if you know them, but they don't know.

SPEAKER_02 31:47

I don't care who it is, I don't care if it's Nana coming to pick you up, if it's not me and and they don't know the word, you ain't going.

SPEAKER_01 31:55

And then I'm kind of glad, like as an adult, I'm glad we never had to use it because if we did have to use it that one time, that means the word had to be changed. Right. Yeah, so I'm like, that would have just got me done.

SPEAKER_02 32:13

And they even knew, like, even you know, if somebody came to the house, I don't care if I'm home, you know, you do not open the door.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

I still want my kid to ask the door, she's 20. Like, wait, no, wait, hold up.

SPEAKER_02 32:25

Anyone who needs to come in here got a key.

SPEAKER_01 32:29

Oh, if I'm the doors open, I'm expecting them. Even then, like I I'm one of those big people. Like, I'm big. It's not that I'm big on um my private. Yeah, I love my privacy, but ultimately I'm big on respect. Like, I take I might take it to a whole new level because coming to my house unannounced, like, hey, no, no, you don't know. Who the fuck you think you are? I don't care if I know you, I don't care if your family just you don't pop up without letting me at least head a text, like, hey, we're heading that way to just something, just something. I might be a little bit like oh, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:06

Yeah, I mean, usually like I'll get a phone call if somebody is gonna drop by, but if somebody drops by unannounced, it's usually my mom.

SPEAKER_01 33:14

And somehow that isn't they exempt for all rules in that case, don't they? Back to lost.

SPEAKER_02 33:20

Okay. When Locke later regains consciousness, he shows Echo the diagram he he drew from his memories of the glass door with the question mark in the middle. Echo then tells Locke that they will go to the question mark, stating that Anna Lucia told them in his dream to find it. Locke responds with a look of skepticism, and Echo asks him, Have you ever followed a dream? And we both know that he has.

SPEAKER_01 33:48

Yes. I find that if anyone I Locke and Echo's relationship has it's really multi-dimensional because they understand each other, they they work on two different roads, but those roads are still parallel to each other, if that makes any kind of sense. Because if anyone else like knocks you the fuck out and you wake up, he's like, All right, so here we go. Like he's just like, all right, this is where we're at.

SPEAKER_02 34:17

This is mirror basically mirroring the relationship that him and Boone had, because he knocked out Boone in order to get him.

SPEAKER_01 34:26

And Bo's like, all right, here we go. This is that's a good point.

SPEAKER_02 34:29

Follow the dream, knocked him out, and they kind of ended up at the same place.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

The plane. Holy shit, balls. I mean, I saw the connection, but I didn't see how deep the connection was. Right? It's just it's like and here's another question for the writers intentional or have very happy accident. Like, was that like shroom-induced accident? Like, I'm just wondering. I like at my judging, I support it. I'm with it.

SPEAKER_02 35:01

Um, later, as the two are arguing about symbols on the map that Locke had copied from memory, Echo steps on a Virgin Mary statue, and the two stumble into the burned plane. Echo asks what made the plane fall, and Locke answers that it was Boone who made it fall, and that his death was a sacrifice that the island demanded. They make camp and wait for further instructions. Further instructions is also the name of an episode in the future. In the hatch, Michael asks if Livy had said anything, and Jack says that she is still unconscious and is suffering, and that all he can do is make her more comfortable. Jack then gives Sawyer a stern look. Sawyer responds by insisting that he already gave him all of the medications, and Jack clarifies that he was referring to the heroine. He asks Sawyer to fetch it and that Kate should accompany him so that she knows where Sawyer has hidden the guns. That was pretty smart of him.

SPEAKER_01 36:03

Yeah, I didn't expect him to be that quick of uptake to be that I to him to think something that quickly.

SPEAKER_02 36:09

And Sawyer knew exactly what he was doing, but he knew that Sawyer wasn't gonna let Libby suffer.

SPEAKER_01 36:15

Yeah. Cause even and was like, I love Sawyer because he got it. He he's like, this is why he's doing it. Come on, let's go. Like there was no hesitation. Because he like he didn't take the stash back to our original discussion to be malicious. He just kind of wanted to be part of the people. You know, he wanted to be part of them. He felt left out and he just he lashed out. So he was so that goes back to just to prove that he's not a horrible person. I mean he's a con artist, but he's still not a horrible person.

SPEAKER_02 36:45

Kate learns to her surprise that he hid his belongings in a pit underneath his bed. When they leave the tent, Hurley approaches them and asks if they have seen Libby. Kate tells him the bad news. In a dream, Yemi appears before Echo and directs him to climb the cliff. At the top, Yemi, seated in a wheelchair, says, Wake up, John, and in terror, Echo loses his grip of the cliff and falls back to the bottom. Locke wakes from the nightmare. When he describes his dream, Echo tells him that the priest he saw was his brother Yemi. Locke says that Yemi wanted him to follow. He then looks up the cliff from his dream, and Echo climbs the cliff. And here we go again, another mirrored situation where Locke has an impairment on his leg, and once again Loc can't climb. And the person that he's with is going to climb.

SPEAKER_01 37:49

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 37:50

While Locke watches from the bottom.

SPEAKER_01 37:52

The island has other missions, has other ideas for him.

SPEAKER_02 37:55

Echo struggles to the top, and Loc calls to him asking if he has found anything.

SPEAKER_01 38:02

So I find it fun, like, and here goes fucking Locke dreaming of Echo and Yemi. He doesn't even know fucking Yemi. He doesn't know he even has a brother. He knows, but he dreams that he's Echo talking to his brother Yemi. I'm like, fucking lost. I swear, you guys got me. Like, if I if I didn't know better, I would have thought I was on some like hallucinogenic drugs or something. Lost would make you feel that way with being completely sober.

SPEAKER_02 38:34

Yeah. That's one of the things I love about it is that every episode you're like, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_01 38:40

Like, have you lost your like you see what's happy, like really? Have you lost your fucking mind? Like, really?

SPEAKER_02 38:47

Echo surveys. Echo surveys. Wow, what am I French? Echo surveys the island's verdant landscape and replies that he hasn't found anything. But as he looks down at Locke, he sees a giant question mark shaped into the clearings undergrowth. With the tail's plane, with the plane's tail make and dyslexic.

SPEAKER_01 39:14

You're too sober. Hello.

SPEAKER_02 39:17

But as he looks down at Locke, he sees a giant question mark shaped into the clearings undergrowth with the plane's tail, making the period at the base of the question mark. Echo tastes the soil and finds it was salted in the pattern of a question mark to prevent growth. Echo then picks the ground with his axe and discovers a hatch buried beneath the plane. They open the hatch and descend. Locke finds a working light switch and they enter a room with several tables, one of them with cigarette debris on it, with adjustable rectangular magnifying lenses and a series of television monitors. Locke turns them on and one shows a live surveillance feed from the Swan where Jack is seen walking past the camera. Locke sees another camera above them and also finds a pneumatic tube which proves to be functional when he inserts his map sketch and it sucks it up. So imagine if they had found this maybe like one day ago.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

They may have seen Michael kill. Yeah, because I was because I'm thinking, I'm like, is this just is this just like CCTV kind of like, or is it recorded? Like I was wondering, like, can they go back and see? I know they can see as it's happening. Can they go back and see? Is it recorded somewhere? Is this kind of servers? I don't know. Questions upon questions upon questions on the question episode. And the fact that there was like cigarettes there.

SPEAKER_02 40:52

I couldn't tell where they can were they were they old? They didn't look that old. Right, because that so was somebody like could somebody have been there to watch my that's another question I had.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

Are there still people from Dharma Initiative watching them? Are there other people on the island? Don't they? Well, we know that there's other people on the island. I'm not talking about the others, I'm talking about a third group of people. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 41:20

But we don't know who the others are. We just know them as others.

SPEAKER_01 41:24

So the way the others are the others, they didn't come out right. You know what I mean? Yes, I understand what you're saying. So why aren't they at the hatch? Watching more often. And then there must be another way in and out, because the other one has a set. Like there's there's hatches and then there's the doorways. Everyone has a hatch at a doorway, I think. I can assume. Interesting. More questions upon questions upon questions.

SPEAKER_02 41:50

And then there's the pneumatic tube. Where's that going? Oh, well, let's okay. So let me let me read. Lock also finds Okay Lock also finds a computer terminal with a command prompt, print log. Yes or no? Lock inputs Y and a dot matrix printer is heard in the background as it produces the log printout. Echo finds another orientation movie, and Echo and Locke watch the tape with the orientation again presented by the man in the swan orientation tape, and learn that they are in learn that they drink.

SPEAKER_00 42:32

Drink.

SPEAKER_02 42:34

Echo finds another orientation movie tape. Echo and Locke watch the tape with the orientation again presented by the man in the swan orientation tape, and learn that the hatch they are in is a station five, the pearl. Constructed to observe the other stations and to record how the subjects perform actions which they believe to be of great importance. Basically, the tape is saying that the purpose of station five, the pearl, is for the people to watch the swan, fill the journals, and then send the journals and stop doing that.

SPEAKER_01 43:18

That was quick. I thought it was gonna take you a little longer.

SPEAKER_02 43:22

And then send the journals in the pneumatic tubes, but we don't know where they go. Yes. Little by little we're getting more and more.

SPEAKER_01 43:45

And then you see the part where they're watching them like doing exercises, like there's a whole regiment thing going on here. So I'm like, it's more than just people not knowing that they're being watched. It's it's like you said, there's barracks, there's them.

SPEAKER_02 43:59

So and he also says that they're the people that they're watching believe that they're doing something of great importance.

SPEAKER_01 44:09

Poor Locke.

SPEAKER_02 44:20

He explains that they are being tested and that the reason they push the button is. Not because they are told to do so, but because we believe we are meant to.

SPEAKER_01 44:30

I think he was kind of reaching with that one. Like I think he's reaching. I hope he's took some stretches and before he started with that idea. Because that's even by lost standards, a little reach to it.

SPEAKER_02 44:44

John responds in frustration and anger that he was never meant to do anything, and that every moment of his pathetic and useless life is as useless as that button. Excuse me. Echo explains his responsibility for his brother's death, how Echo's plane crashed on the island, and how this island he has found. No. Sorry. Echo explains his responsibility for his brother's death. How Echo's plane crashed on the island, and how on this island he has found the plane which took off from Nigeria, and here he has found his brother and put around his neck the same cross he first wore the day he took another man's life. So, he asks Locke, how can you say that this is meaningless and that he thinks the task at the Swan is more important than anything, and that if Locke won't push the button, he will. Echo takes the log print out with them as they depart. At the Swan, Hurley tells Michael he was going on a picnic with Libby and adds that he is glad Michael is okay. Hurley says his goodbyes and tells her how sorry he is for have for for having forgotten the blankets. Hurley is like breaking my heart. Like I I was almost like with a tear because watching Hurley have all those emotions, they're just like they're just so pure, you know, just so genuine.

SPEAKER_01 46:21

I um I feel bad because I it did it pull a heart string and I feel bad. I mean it was like oh it's sad, but it didn't make me. I was like, okay, I feel like a horrible person now.

SPEAKER_02 46:35

Libby's last word is a horse, Michael, which Jack misinterprets as a sign of her concern for Michael. When Jack reassures Libby that Michael is fine, she appears frightened and she dies.

SPEAKER_01 46:49

So your last word is to like your last your last thing you say is trying to you know trying to warn them and it's not and it's not um understood correctly. That fucking sucks. You're like, fuck me. Like, can you imagine like the last thing you say still doesn't get through the way it's supposed to? You're like, motherfuckers, right? And then you just croak. Like, I'm sorry, I'm so going to hell.

SPEAKER_02 47:15

The scene, like you see um Sawyer and Kate sitting at the table, and that was like that was really there was something about that scene, you know, like Kate is just sad and emotional, and Sawyer just kind of like comforts her, and it's and it's genuine.

SPEAKER_00 47:39

They belong together.

SPEAKER_02 47:41

It's just nice to see him kind of let his humanize it.

SPEAKER_01 47:50

Softy. He's like a kid, like if he were if if his character had to be a zodiac side, it would be a cancer. Because they have this hard, crabby shale, but they're all soft inside, you know, like you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_02 48:04

Next time we do um our zodiac fun. Uh-huh. Can we read cancer and think of Sawyer?

SPEAKER_01 48:11

I think we should. I think so. I think that's what we should be doing. We should assign zodiac signs to all the characters.

SPEAKER_02 48:19

Okay. Locke and Echo make their way back to the camp. Michael is sitting in the gun vault, looking solemnly down at the floor, and looks up as the alarm starts beeping. And with that, the episode is over. Overall.

SPEAKER_01 48:38

It was okay. It was good. Um, it was okay. I didn't dislike it. And it answers it gave me more questions, which is a good thing. It was more like, oh, this is what happened. I got I got more questions to look to get answered, so in a good way, more questions. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:03

So let's do some trivia, and then we'll keep going. A majority of the events from this episode, including Libby's death, take place on Thanksgiving Day, which would have been November 25th, 2004. Thanksgiving Day is when it air on Thanksgiving Day on the show. On the show. Oh in their timeline. It would have taken place on Thanksgiving.

SPEAKER_01 49:31

Damn. That's fucked up.

SPEAKER_02 49:34

In the orientation video, Francois Chow, who's the actor, gave the name Dr. Marvin Candle in the Swan Orientation film, calls himself Dr. Mark Wickmund in the Pearl Orientation video.

SPEAKER_00 49:50

Wickmund Candle. What's the next time? He's gonna be he's gonna be flame, wax flame, like I did.

SPEAKER_02 50:00

And his left arm is no longer a prosthetic arm, which suggests that this orientation film was made before the other one. Oh but now okay, regardless of the order that they made, he's given two different names, right?

SPEAKER_01 50:18

So maybe he did it, maybe hitting the button does lead to something, and they didn't hit the button one time, and all he lost his arm. He's like, we don't talk about that. Like maybe that's what maybe it maybe, I don't know. But obviously, they're going to different people, like everyone is seeing the orientation different. Everyone is seeing a different orientation. So it really doesn't matter what name he gives anybody because all the names, none of the names are his real name. I mean, I kind of I kind of thought that I kind of had a feeling that it was all like it was so what's the word I'm looking for? My word my words are not coming out today. Um the whole pro the whole experiment is really hush hush. No one knows everything. So the fact that he gives fake names, like you kind of assume that whatever name he's gonna give is not his real name. But like the whole candle thing. Is it gonna be another orientation film later on in the series? Come on, just tell me that much. We already know there's other stations, that's not a secret. Okay, that's just evil. What the next name is gonna be um Yankee Candle, his name will be my name is Yankee Candle Company.

SPEAKER_02 51:47

In the dream, when Echo is following Yemi up the cliff, he is walking with the limp. It then turns out Locke was the one having the dream and saw himself as Echo. Locke actually having the hairline fracture in his leg.

SPEAKER_01 52:01

Oh, I didn't catch that.

SPEAKER_02 52:03

Yeah, I did. I I noticed that at first, and I was like, why is Echo limping? And then I was like, oh, right, because it's Locke. Echo met Richard Malkin, the psychic.

SPEAKER_01 52:14

Yes, it took me a second. I'm like, huh? Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 52:17

And so that's that's like another little connection off the island of some, you know, of how like the six degrees of separation, more like one degree of separation between these focus.

SPEAKER_01 52:28

That doesn't bother when you first watched this show. It didn't bother you how the like everyone was connected every which way. Like, what was her name? Nadia was being always being expected by Locke. Like, come the fuck on, people. Everyone who survived, there's a connection. What are the odds? Come on. And it's not like they were all like live, they not like if everybody on there was actually from Australia, you can see it, but they're from all around the fucking world, and they still had a connection. That bugs the fuck out of me. Because it's so illogical.

SPEAKER_02 53:03

I love it. I love it. All right, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:08

Okay, this is like they're all dead.

SPEAKER_02 53:11

This is not so much trivia, but I love that Sawyer calls Henry the artist formerly known as Henry Gail.

SPEAKER_01 53:18

Gail.

SPEAKER_02 53:21

Yes. I mean, R.I.P prints, but like, oh in the orientation video, so these are these are just like, you know, overall themes, okay. In the orientation video, pushing the button is implied to be an experiment. Do you think do you have any change of thought about the validity of having to push the button now?

SPEAKER_01 53:49

I thought it was bullshit until you brought up the fact that he no longer has a prosthetic and the implications of what that means, and then the orientation for the swan, they talked about cattails. Um cattails. They talked about like the incident, what they call it, the what they call the incident. So you're like, well, since you brought that up, now like, well, maybe the button does mean something. Or maybe the incident had nothing to do with the button at all. Like, I don't know. Lost has me doubting myself, and I don't like it.

SPEAKER_02 54:24

In the last episode, Michael shoot shoots Anna Lucia and Libby, and then that's where the episode ends. So now in this episode, he tells them that it was Henry. Well, and he also shot himself, so he he tells them that it was Henry who did it. So we're already starting to see this new side of Michael. And what do you think?

SPEAKER_01 54:49

I really wanted them to figure out that Michael shot them. It's so hard.

SPEAKER_02 54:57

Because on face value, at face value, you're like, what the fuck, Michael? Like you just shot, forget Anna Lucia, like you just shot Libby.

SPEAKER_01 55:09

I mean you shot people, period. That really had no reason, like but then I mean you can see that he shot Libby on accident. You could tell that it was like that wasn't meant to happen. I get it. But he's like you just shot people, period, for no for apparently for no reason.

SPEAKER_02 55:31

For no reason, but but we both know what the reason is gonna lead to. Right. Because there's only one reason that Michael does anything on this island, and it's why or the boy.

SPEAKER_01 55:43

The boy.

SPEAKER_02 55:44

Give me the boy, and then when you think about it, like as a parent, you get it, it's like fuck. I probably would have done the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 55:56

It's a no-brainer, it really is.

SPEAKER_02 55:57

It's really it sucks. It really fucking sucks because it's hard. Like you want to make him out to be like this real evil person for doing that, but we I think we all know that if it was our kids, we would do whatever we have to do.

SPEAKER_01 56:13

In a heartbeat. People may be like, um uh it's it's easy to say, it's easy to say yes, kill me for my child. And I think a person would be like yes, in a heartbeat. And when you say, I need you to kill three innocent people for your child, you were like for a second, you I think ultimately you probably still would do it, but it'll give you pause. It would be like, uh, okay. Um, I think that's the hard part with being a parent and that that nuance when do something completely evil or wrong for your child, like, yeah, you're gonna do it, but you're still like because human nature, a good person, but you're gonna pause. You're gonna be like, right. But yeah, so I um I still wanted him to get caught at this point, but not because he was evil. I just kind of wanted it to have a better ending.

SPEAKER_02 57:14

You like you wanted him to be like it to be kind of like justice for them.

SPEAKER_01 57:18

Yeah, I want this, this is what this is what happened. Alright, fine, you're gonna get punished for it, but we're still gonna get Walt back. Like, like, you know, you know what I mean? There needs to be a happy ending of some sort. Um, but we already know that because remember um when I told you I accidentally had like a spoiler, because I was reading like an article on Facebook, and then all of a sudden they lost all the equipment. So I already know Walt's not coming back.

SPEAKER_02 57:45

So every time I'm like What do you think happened to Walt?

SPEAKER_01 57:50

And how that okay, so this is my question. So since I know he's not gonna be back on the show, like in like in the that continued way, I'm like, how do they get rid of him? How do they explain his absence? What's gonna happen? I am at least there's that, at least there's that sense of okay, I want something.

SPEAKER_02 58:12

We're gonna get a little bit more about um Michael and Walt in the next episode. Yes. Um, before we talk about the next episode, the title of this one is just question mark, literally a question mark.

SPEAKER_01 58:29

So obviously it refers to the location of the Pearl Station, and the 600 different questions they edited that it in a cured the whole episode.

SPEAKER_02 58:39

Yeah, it's just like how could how do you even narrow it down? It's like the question mark, what's going on with Michael? Will they ever find out that it was him who shot them? Like everything, like everything. What's the deal with the swan? What's the deal with the pearl? What who salted the ground so that nothing would grow? Like, why do you need to see it from above?

SPEAKER_01 59:02

I s I this whole fucking I I don't even know if I'm here right now. Like, watching it, like, do I exist? Like, what's going on? Fucking episode got me fucked up.

SPEAKER_02 59:15

The next one is three minutes. And it it's it focuses on Michael.

SPEAKER_01 59:21

Only three minutes, Michael? Okay. Sorry. I mean, I mean hopefully there are three really good minutes you gotta make worth it. Because sometimes three minutes hit the spot. Like this time, you know, boom, yeah. I have nothing against it as long as it's productive. Right.

SPEAKER_02 59:41

Sometimes you got other shit to do, and and you, you know, anyway.

SPEAKER_01 59:47

Not even. Sometimes you just like you come home from work and then one w one or the other will like throw you over the couch, bang you, you're like, oh, that was great. How was your day? Good. What for dinner? Like, that's sometimes it's just like Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:04

Three minutes can do a lot for your life.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:06

I wonder if I'm gonna get any phone calls on this episode.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:10

Who's gonna call us? Um, do you agree that three minutes can be worth it? If you do, call us.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:20

Let's hear your thoughts on this. I think there's times for three, there are times and a place for three minutes, and there's time and a place for three hours. I'm down with that and anything in between. Yeah. I I mean I can't have three minutes all the time, and I can't have three hours all the time.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:40

Uh, I apologize in advance for the noisy pup. Uh Michael's episode. Is there anything that you hope to learn?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:50

Let's see. Michael's episode. Why did they kidnap? Why did they want the boy? Like, I wanted I kind of figure out, like, obviously, when I said when you hear Michael, I think Walt automatically. So I'm trying to see if they get any into like why my why Walt? What was so important by Walt? And the fucking how long was he gone? Like two weeks, a month, a year?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:12

Who might yeah?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:14

How long was he gone?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:15

Well, Michael was gone for like eight episodes, but in island time, I guess it was about two weeks.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:23

So I want to know what happened to him. Did he see Walt? Did they have a good time? Did they was I don't know what's happening? I don't know, but that's that.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:35

Yeah. Alright. So next time, when you come hang out with us, we're gonna discuss three minutes and get into some of Michael's story. But in the meantime, while you wait for the next episode, we would ask that you help us and support our podcast. Ways that you can do that are by supporting us at patreon.com slash saspod. There are multiple tiers that you can join, and the tiers start at at as little as one dollar. Yeah, so please consider that if you can. Um, you can also help by sharing our podcast, telling your friends, and connecting with us on social media. We have all of the information in our show notes. There's also our email and our phone number. And I know that it's um it's kind of short notice at this point, but we may have space for some for some more fan favorite episodes. If you want to if you want to join us to do a season two episode, reach out to us on um you can email us. That's probably like the easiest way to let us know that you're into it. So if you want to record an episode with us, yes, definitely reach out to us and um hopefully we have we have the ability to do that. We also asked if you can, you can support our sponsors. That's another way of supporting our show. If you go and use our promo code to treat yourself, that's cool. And as always, drink responsibly, please do not drink and drive. And until next time, I'm Lisa. And I'm Agnes, and we are out of here.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:34

Bye.