SPOTLIGHT Dr. Xiomara Rivera Pagán, Ph.D.

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Hi, and welcome to this episode of Assassin's Sips Spotlight. I am Lisa. Today I'm sipping on my fancy water because it has lemon and mint, so I deem myself fancy.

SPEAKER_02 0:20

I'm your co-host Agnes, and I'm just drinking a water, plain old non-fancy water.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Sorry to fail.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

And today our guest is multi-language advocate, Dr. Ziomara Heribera Pagan. And she is going to talk about lots of stuff involving languages.

SPEAKER_03 0:46

If you let me, if you let me, I will.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

We sure will.

SPEAKER_03 0:51

Yeah. Do I say what I'm stepping on? It's basic water. But it's filtered. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

It's kind of fancy.

SPEAKER_03 0:58

Yeah, exactly. We got the filtered water. Naturally fancy. I think so. Especially after like weeks of not having the filtered water. The area that I'm in, I'm in uh Maryland, but like up north. And the area for some reason just does not have the best water. And so whenever we are drinking like not filtered water, you already know like you're you're risking your life. So I'm I'm thrilled. This is like a cocktail, but with you know hydration properties.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

Well, that's why I have to make my water fancy, because as a native New Yorker, um, New York City has the best water.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

The best water.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

And now I live in Jersey and I'm like, what is a swill coming out of my faucet? So we have to doctor it up a little bit because I like to drink water. It's just lemon and mint inside. That's it.

SPEAKER_03 1:53

I got some mint. I might get some from the garden.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

Yeah. And they say it's an anti-inflammatory. So you know, for those things when you need a little help.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

Good point. Thank you.

unknown 2:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:04

Thank you, Lisa.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

You're useful sometimes. This is why I keep you around.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

I'm glad. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

The water restaurant sucks. Oh yeah. I think I spent since I've been here, I can't tell you how much water how much money I spent on water alone. Just like probably like New York we rent just to buy bottled water.

SPEAKER_03 2:25

I mean, right. Even with the filter, it does it hit. I was like, You wouldn't think, right? Like we're we're in 2026 and we're right now we're we're having this conversation about just like basic water in in not not super remote areas, right?

SPEAKER_02 2:41

No, this is still a big city.

SPEAKER_03 2:43

Exactly. Exactly. It's a problem here. It's a huge problem in Puerto Rico right now. Just access to water at all. So it just blows my mind in 2026 that we're all like, you know, I can't find healthy water, right. Figuring out the water situation. Sorry to bring us down.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

No, we we're always up to work.

SPEAKER_03 3:06

I'm just I'm stuck. I'm stuck. I feel like water, my mom wrote a song about it, a bomba about it. And so I think it's it's like at the top of my head of um how it's a natural resource. We should have access to all natural resources. Why are we not in possession of water, right? Not not on the island, not here, not in a lot of places. Safe water, especially.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_02 3:33

I feel like we're like first world problems. We're talking about this the taste of the water. And as opposed to way too many people don't have access to water, that drinkable water. Right. Mm-hmm. So you did mention briefly before we start talking about water.

SPEAKER_03 3:52

You said you wanted a tangent.

SPEAKER_02 3:54

I know, I love that. I you are from the get-go. You're my spirit person. I'm feeling you. I'm gonna talk, I'm gonna give you my silly question because I always forget. And I actually remembered my silly question today. I'm excited for myself. I'm proud of myself. So before I ask my question, did you ever do dating apps? No. Okay, that's fine. And I don't regret it. No, don't regret it. Okay, second question. What is the food combination that bothers you the most? Like french fries and frosties, like weird food combinations that people do that you just like, yeah, no.

SPEAKER_03 4:33

This isn't weird. This is actually a preference for a lot of people, but I don't prefer salty and sweet. I don't like it when I know, see, this is it's like so not weird. It's so not weird, but I don't want my sweet stuff to touch my salty stuff either. Like when I'm on a plate, like when I have things on a plate, I want whatever is like sweet, usually, because if you're eating like a dinner, most of it's gonna be savory. So if it's there's something sweet, I want it off to the side. If I go to like a nice restaurant, then you I'm not gonna be picky, but I don't prefer it.

SPEAKER_02 5:05

So like your candied yams cannot be with your dressing, and it's gonna be separate almost candy yams, right?

SPEAKER_03 5:13

Yeah, but I also don't prefer sweet. Uh like I oh you said candied yams, and I was like, I've never had that.

SPEAKER_02 5:18

No, no, but you don't like sweets, I can't tell you to try it then. So yeah, exactly. I don't prefer it. I don't like your nose to just like shove it down your throat. Like you like it.

SPEAKER_03 5:28

And I don't I don't dislike it, but it's not your preference. Exactly. I I like a baked potato or tortone or like chicken.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

Yes, and yes. But I don't prefer sweet either. I don't I mean, I like salty and sweet and things like that, like savory. But in general, my go-to taste is salt. Salty. Give me the chips, give me the pork chop, give me the rice with the extra salt on it, because and my family loves to shame me about the amount of salt that I use. And I'm like, I don't care. I'm enjoying it.

SPEAKER_02 6:07

And I like my potato chips dipped in chocolate if I can. Give me the salty, sweet, like I like, oh, that sounds like my nightmare.

SPEAKER_03 6:16

She's like, I'm gonna have to end this recording. No, not at all. But I I feel so basic because it's like a very fancy thing. You go to restaurants and they love to put like sweet things on top of savory things. And I'm like, why did we ruin it? Yeah. Like a no mango compote. Like she's like, I was just gonna say that. I I don't remember where I went this weekend, but somebody was like, and a mango, da da da. I was like, minus the mango. I mean, I like mango, but apart, separate, uh, you know, in its own world. So mango margarita. I don't prefer it, but I also don't prefer cocktails. I prefer like liquor by itself.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

So you can because I had a mango orange margarita last night. Oh, cute. It was yummy. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:07

I say yes to everything. I when it comes to like food or drink, I'll try it at least three times. Well, the first time is like not everyone could cook, not all restaurants have good days. The second time, okay, maybe it was me. The third time is the final, yeah, this didn't work for me.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

But usually it's I like food. So usually by the second time, I'm I'm like, okay, this works for me.

SPEAKER_03 7:31

Turn it all around. I love food. I I do too, but I guess I'm pickier than I realize. You're you're making me realize. I was like, but anybody who says that they're good with the flow or easygoing is not.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

So no, for the most part, people who say they are, you look at them, you're like, no. Well, like, no, no, you're not. I want to disagree with that.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

I am go with the flow until unless I don't like something.

SPEAKER_03 7:55

There you go. That's when that's when you realize I don't like it.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

I don't like it. But if you serve me something and it's things that I eat, I'll eat it. I'm just I just don't like what I don't like.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

I'm talking about food. I'm talking about in general. You're not that easy.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

Please. We just don't like to walk places. Just don't like to. I physically cannot. Whatever, whatever, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 8:18

So back to you. I like this. I like this friend's dynamic.

unknown 8:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

We've been we've been friends.

SPEAKER_03 8:24

This is love.

unknown 8:25

It is.

SPEAKER_03 8:25

You know, when you're old?

SPEAKER_01 8:27

Yeah. Yeah. Oh man. We went to elementary school together.

SPEAKER_03 8:30

Yeah, right. I love it. Mm-hmm. I don't think I mean my partner's the only person that I know I haven't known for that long.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

And I don't see anything, not to say.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

She's gonna yell at me, but we can offer this.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

I I guess, you know, I don't I don't deal well with change, maybe. So, you know, like the same friends that I've had I kept. I'm like, no, no, you can't leave me because I don't want to make new friends.

SPEAKER_03 8:53

I support that. Making friends as an adult is hard.

SPEAKER_02 8:56

It's so much harder. Yeah. It's so much harder. Because you're a little bit, you're more, you're more aware of things. You have your boundaries and you're setting your waves or whatever the case may be. And if people do not fit in the box that you've gone accustomed to, they don't get into the box. Yeah, I always box.

SPEAKER_03 9:20

I always tell people the hardest thing that you can do when you want to like figure out in social circles or the folks that I practice Spanish with, the hardest thing that you can do is find friends. Find friends that are connecting along the same wavelength that you can practice your language with, that have the same goals. The easiest thing that you can do is say yes. So when someone invites you, when someone asks you if you want to do something, asks you if you or tells you that you should lead, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. When someone sees something in you in order to like guide you in a path towards new friends, new, new social circles, new spaces, the easiest thing you can do is say yes. It feels like a big thing and you're like, I don't know that I'm ready. But like it's so much harder to actually seek those things out than to just say yes when someone's actually seeking you for it, you know?

SPEAKER_01 10:11

That's definitely something that I'm realizing more and more as I get older that just say yes. Live in a place of yes, uh unless, you know, obviously, unless there's reasons to say the ish, you know, right, within reason, obviously.

SPEAKER_02 10:25

But living in a place of yes has for me has gotta be, I think I'm a much better version of me.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

Because I'm like, yeah, just go for it.

SPEAKER_02 10:35

If it didn't work out, may I learn something.

SPEAKER_03 10:38

Yeah, yeah. I think my my biggest gross moments have been from times where I was like, I don't think I'm ready for it, but if you think so, sure. Let's go for it. Yeah, exactly. I don't see what you see, but let's go for it. And then, you know, people often see you with clearer eyes than we see ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 11:00

That's true.

SPEAKER_03 11:01

Other people that love and care about you. Right.

SPEAKER_02 11:03

Actually, and there's some people who don't. And you're like, yeah, you yeah, I'm not exactly the nicest person. You're right. I'm I'm gonna do that. I'll give it to you. I'll give it to you. Yeah, you're you're you're not wrong. But yes, you're still here in front of me. So I don't know what you want me to do with that. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 11:20

Exactly. Exactly. I do have multiple sides with me. I am layered.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

I am an onion, right? Or parfait. Everyone loves parfait. My grandkids love Shrek. So I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_03 11:31

I was gonna say, I hope that that was a Shrek reference.

SPEAKER_02 11:33

I find myself keep using it.

SPEAKER_00 11:36

That's sweet.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

I'm gonna ask my silly question.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

Oh yes.

SPEAKER_03 11:41

I like it. I didn't realize we were doing silly questions. This is so cute.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Well, yeah, they're they're just something that we we take turns, and so we'll each ask you know our guests just to break the ice. Cayute. I like it. Why do you think eleven isn't pronounced as one T1? Why are you saying is this a riddle or a question? No, no, no. It's just a dumb question that there's no right answer for.

SPEAKER_03 12:11

Say that again.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

Why do you think 11 is not pronounced one T1? One? You know, like 22 is 22 is 22.

SPEAKER_03 12:21

1T. Oh, I hear it now. Okay. So 1T1. 11. Now I really want to look at like the epistemology of it. Of that, right? Why? 11. It's gotta do something with like the Greek gods, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:40

I just thought a language question was fitting.

SPEAKER_03 12:45

She's like, you got me stumped. No.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

I mean, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 12:48

Absolutely. And that is like the funniest thing that for a long time people, it's like such a big misconception. It's like, okay, so you love languages. So, like, how many languages do you speak is like the the first question that everybody loves to ask me. And I really practice mostly Spanish, English, Spanglish is what I talk about. And I've learned and practiced, but I I don't have strong proficiency in Italian, Japanese, Portuguese, and a little bit of French, but that's the least of all. But people are like, you're the language person, so you must speak a bunch of languages. And I'm like, that's not what I mean when I say I'm a multilingual advocate. I want to create spaces for language. I want I am a language educator, so I want everyone to know as much as possible about how language is learned and how languages used, so that we stop making uh a lot of people make assumptions on someone's language ability. And oftentimes it's comes from a negative perspective of like, why can't you do what I expect you to do? I have expectations for your language ability, and now I see you're not performing as you either not being what you said you were, which happens a lot with heritage Spanish speakers who identify as Latino, and they I realize I'm going on the tangent that we were talking about earlier today.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

Keep going. Keep going. We're following exactly.

SPEAKER_03 14:20

Exactly. But uh it happens with our heritage Spanish speakers or heritage anything speaker, right? You identify as Latino, so why is it that you don't speak Spanish? Oh, then are you really Latino? Uh like, and then there's this identity crisis and this push-pull between my expectations and then your self-identification when there's so much there in terms of language education, how language is passed down, how language is lost, how language goes dormant, uh how historically are many of our communities, especially bilingual and multilingual communities, have been either physically or emotionally attacked for speaking additional languages. Even in 2026, we're dealing with it and this English-only movement, uh, by the Supreme Court and the executive order, it's all sorts of stuff that's telling us like, oh, it's cool to speak other languages if you're doing it to study abroad, and if you are presenting in certain it the right way, yeah, exactly. If you're Jimmy, who's studying abroad and you're just doing it as like a little bonus language, then oh my gosh, that's amazing. How how do you learn it? Like, that's so cool. Um, but if you are a Sami and you grew up in a Latino household, then why didn't you learn it already? Why don't you already know it? Why do you speak Spanglish and not Spanglish? Why, why, why, why, why, why, why? And it's this deficit view of like you're not performing Latinidad in a way that I feel like is appropriate, which is super problematic because language and culture go together, but they are not equivalent.

SPEAKER_02 16:09

And then they also get the flip side that they do, if they are bilingual, multilingual, they'll look it down upon, like, why don't you only speak English? This is America.

SPEAKER_03 16:17

Or the accent, right? Oh, you do speak both languages, but you speak this one with an accent or that one with an accent. Well, then you don't speak it well enough. Which happens uh again a lot for the heritage Spanish speaking community, where I have folks that speak beautiful Spanish, beautiful Spanish. And they're still like, but I don't speak it in a way that is Puerto Rican enough, right? Or Mexican enough or Colombian enough or whatever. And then their community members are like, Yeah, but where are you where are you from? Because you don't speak it the same way that we do. Which again, I can go on a super tangent about that, because even in Puerto Rico, it like there are so many ways of speaking Spanish, right? If you look in any of the chats, people are like, no, no, no, no. Over here we say it this way, over here we say it that way. In the United States, same thing with the English. Know what I mean? Like it happens in every language with every language variety. And a lot of times we uh try to shape ourselves in order to feel like, okay, if I present myself in a certain way, then the other listener is gonna accept me. If I uh speak well enough, grammatically correct enough, professional enough, whatever, and all of those terms are just ways that basically we gatekeep communities that are often marginalized by saying you don't speak like white hegemonic middle to upper class individuals, so you don't get to belong. Even if you know everything, it doesn't sound when it comes out of your mouth like I expect it to. So it means nothing.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

Right. And I think that that's something that within the language of English, sometimes we can adapt to the surroundings, and then you know, we call it code switching because right, like if you're talking to your friends, you speak this way, if you're at your job, you speak this way, and that's acceptable. But it's like you say then when you do it in your native language, but then you sh you're struggling, then it's like it's it's not enough.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

That's the hard and that's the hard part.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

And so I'll be honest, this this spotlight is very personal for me, you know, because I was kind of like in my own little journey, and especially with respect to the the the broader things that are going on in life and I've been trying to do a lot of like introspection. Introspection? Introspection, I don't know, whatever. Whatever that word is, and if that's not a word, you nailed it, you nailed it, introspection.

SPEAKER_02 19:09

It's at least a word now, but yes.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

Yeah, exactly. But it's like really difficult because I feel like I've been battling this my whole life. And it's funny because you know how like you hear the phrase all the time like representation matters and representation matters, but you look at me and you think oh she she sees herself, right? Look at me. I I'm I have blonde hair, I have blue eyes, I see myself on TV, I see myself, but I don't see myself. You know when the first time that I saw myself was, and this is gonna sound funny and you can laugh, but back when the movie Selena came out, and I remember when she was talking to I don't remember who she was talking to, but then she was like, you know, here I am, Mexican American, right? But like I'm not I'm not Mexican enough for Christina, and I'm not you know white enough for Oprah, and I'm like wait, that's me. Because you sit on this fence and you never feel like one or the other is the right side to jump down on, and so you just end up sitting there kind of looking and peeking over each side, wondering which is the right fit for me. I don't know where to go. And it's the same thing, and then the struggling with language and looking like I do, you know, I'm I've never been Puerto Rican enough and I've never been Italian enough, and it's like I'm not half and half. I'm this and I'm this, and I now understand that I get to just be both without needing to explain why I don't know this or why I don't do that. But it's still like really, really a struggle on some days to accept myself. And and my what I consider like I don't want to say shortcomings, but like the things that I haven't been able to achieve, you know, like in those spaces. And so like I don't I don't know if I've ever actually said that out loud, but here I am.

SPEAKER_03 21:22

Well thank you for saying that. Yeah. It and it for what it's worth, the folks that are in the Lupatox community, uh uh there's there's many of you of us. Uh for what it's worth, it wasn't silly at all what you said about Selena. Uh like it's the same thing, right? Like I'm I literally I'm writing a book. I'm working on in one of the chapters I wrote exactly that, right? Like media representation has a lot to do with it, right? And it's not just what we physically look like, it's like the languages that you're hearing and not just like the expressions of Dinita that I used to see were like, okay, if you're Latina, then you're speaking Spanish. And otherwise you're not. Otherwise you're not. So seeing her and seeing like that battle between, it was like, oh, okay. So same. I love what you said about like knowing that yes, and like uh a lot of times people will be like, I'm 50% this or I'm 20% that, or like, and we start to cut ourselves into like teeny tiny pieces of less than than a human of fur, and that's just like not at all how it works. Right? Like, I um I don't know if you've seen I I plug this this documentary all the time, uh, but uh the Becky G documentary, Tebecca. No, I highly recommend watching it. Okay um because she's she's so young. Yeah, I won't age myself, but I I watched Silana and when it originally came out, same. So I'll be able to do that.

SPEAKER_01 23:14

And her and I went and saw the movie, and then we left her dad's music stand on the train and got in trouble. Oh, oh. I will not forget that day. But yeah, I mean I was but yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:28

So watch the documentary because she does a really lovely job of basically talking about um how she really identified with being raised in LA and um I think it's Englewood that she uh the her community. And she also really identified with Mexican culture and the language and growing up with her uncles and aunts and da-da-da-da-da. So she felt like it, she felt that she was 200%. She was 100% here and 100% there. She didn't buy the whole, you know, idea of ni daqui, ni da ya. It's like yes and yes. And that was like, it wasn't the first time that I heard it, but it was I loved how she phrased it because I felt like that's that's who we really are, right? We are our most expansive selves. We are yes and we are a hundred percent plus, two hundred percent plus all of the identities that we want to be, but it is really hard when language is a component of it. Uh and it is really hard when something as complicated as this idea of Latinos, right? Latina community, which is not not a not a race, not a language, many cultures. It it is it is all of those things because of uh colonization, because of uh enslavement, because of racism, because of all of it. And so I can be fair skin and feel like someone is uh putting me to the side because I have fair skin and I have besties that uh are black and are also being told that they don't belong as part of our community. And it's like uh so it starts with the looks and then it trickles on down. Well, if you got this, but then what about this? And we still have to qualify, and I'm not buying it. I'm I'm refusing to buy it.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

No, and and then that's something that I've also kind of come to realize is that like my father is Puerto Rican, my mother is Italian. So when whenever I speak to people and they'll say, like, oh, you know, like what ethnicity are you, whatever. When I say Italian, no one ever asks if I speak Italian, no one ever questions, right? But then when I say Puerto Rican, also you speak Spanish. You know, I can understand it, you know. But it's but it's like almost like the door shuts because it's like I f I failed, you know, they're gonna take my card away. But I know, and it's it's so like I don't know, like it's so silly to say it like that because obviously, right? But but then that's how I feel.

SPEAKER_03 26:29

No, and I like I'm not enough. It it does feel like that because your community, uh, or people from your community are essentially telling you, like, we don't see you. Like you and and so this is why a lot of the work that I do um does does not focus as much on proficiency as much as it does on awareness of how language is learned and how language is used, how language changes, um, how systems give us ideas about what is better or worse for language, that then we attribute to people of saying, like, oh, you should present and perform this way if you are identifying this way. A hundred percent of people, this is my the the dumbest and my favorite stat. A hundred percent of people have an opinion on how language is used because we all use language to some extent. We've all learned a language. If only one, some of us multiple ones, but the point is if only one, we've all learned a language. So we all have an opinion of this is how you learn the language, or this is how you should use the language. And we've been told stories about language all of our life. This is professional language, this is grammatically correct. You use that here, you don't use that here. That makes you sound like you're blank, right? All of that is super problematic. Um, so that is why in those spaces, oh, back to my T tangent. 100% of people have an idea, uh, have an opinion about language. Less than 1% of the global population are educators and definitely haven't studied to be language educators. So we're talking about less than 1% of people are the people who should be telling you, this is how you should learn the language, this is how you should practice this the language. Someone telling you that you should or should not speak the language, my first response would be great. Are you a professional linguist? Do you teach languages?

SPEAKER_02 28:39

The question is should be, do you know what that word means? And then ask, because that's like a languat, a who what?

SPEAKER_03 28:46

So Yeah, like do you how much studying of language have you done before you're telling me that I'm not performing my language in the best way or in the right way? Because that awareness is what I really hone in on and what I love to share with the people that I work with, because that starts to open up our eyes of oh, wait, the choices that I make with language are so personal that someone can't tell me what I should or should not be doing. And that shouldn't rock my world because I know more now about how language is used and how language is learned, right? And so, for example, I can practice Puerto Rican Spanish all my life and have a beautiful Puerto Rican Spanish accent. And if I still think that one day someone's not going to challenge me and say, wait, but like that's not how you say it in Spanish. Cedi Cesi. You say it like this, because that's how you say it in Spain. And let's create hierarchies, let's create levels to it, right? If somebody wants to judge my Puerto Rican Spanish for all the work that I put into it, then I still need to know what I'm doing and why I'm doing it. I don't care that you think it's that way. And I do agree that in Spain they say it this way, and in Mexico they say it this way, in Colombia they say it this way, but my abuela says it this way, and that's who I'm trying to talk to. Talk to.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

Right.

SPEAKER_03 30:19

You're right.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

Like And and the irony is that in English, I tripped over my word five minutes ago, and I'm like, yeah, who cares, right? That's my favorite part. We say things, right, because it's in English, and I don't give a fuck. Exactly. Because I'm secure in my English, right?

SPEAKER_03 30:38

That's the confidence piece.

SPEAKER_01 30:40

And so who cares? But as soon as I trip over my tongue in Spanish, I'm like, oh my god, like, where's the whole thing? They're gonna figure it out, they're gonna know. Right. But it's like, okay, so we we're here in the US, and even in English, right? Like Northeast will say it one way, the South will say it another way, the West Coast will say it this way, Canada will say it this way, um London will say it this way, like and how beautiful. And it's great.

SPEAKER_02 31:08

And who can I think that's the beauty of language because this is how languages develop with different dialects. And what we and I where I know it drives me crazy, and then be like, oh, black people speak ghetto or the Ebonics, it's not pro it's it's it's uneducated. This is the beginning, this is this is literally you are watching a language develop. How you think Italian, turn into Spanish, turn it to French, right? It's different dialects.

SPEAKER_03 31:37

And and there are rules around black English. Like you can't just, it's not you can't just go into a space and say, I'm just going to misconjugate things. I'm just gonna say whatever I want.

SPEAKER_02 31:50

Because they're looking to be like, oh, you and you're uneducated.

SPEAKER_03 31:53

Like it's like, ooh, there are rules, there's a culture, there is it is language, right?

SPEAKER_02 32:01

Not relation. Um dialect. It's it's you like I mean subtitles. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 32:08

I think it's the most beautiful thing in the world because I'm actually watching But but right, but at the bottom of it is the beauty part because it's the way the language, language is fluid, it develops, it changes. You know, it just it's a communication tool. There we go, that's it. But then when you can't be part of something that you feel in your heart like you should, to me, that's where I struggle. And so it doesn't bother me when I can't understand people who speak with a heavy southern accent, or I can't understand people who speak with a heavy British accent. It's like okay, like I could kind of follow along, you know, and I'm I'm not gonna try to get it. You get the gist.

SPEAKER_02 32:53

You get you understand what they're trying to relay. Why are people nitpicking? Yeah. That's like what you know exactly what I'm trying to say. You know, like people make fun of my accent all the time here.

SPEAKER_03 33:03

They're like, oh, it's all fun. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 33:05

And I think, and I'm like, what accent? I speak pro I don't know, I don't hear one. You guys have accents. It's a it's everybody has an accent. And it's an ongoing joke that I have with them, and they love it. And I'm like, okay, there's some words I won't say. Well, I'm like, okay, you're gonna make fun of me, but like I can't say dark. Because they're like dark? It's a dark. I'm like, I'm like, F you, I love you, but it's dark, okay? Give me a coffee and fuck off, okay? Um, but that's it.

SPEAKER_03 33:30

I always say that language is a tribute to where you've been and where you want to go.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

And then sometimes, and then you have your point to you said to slavery. There's a culture here in America that people don't want to recognize that doesn't have a connection to language. We don't know how but we don't have a connection to language. So there's our own language. We back to slavery. There was no education. There's we don't have our our our our native tongue. Oral traditions, oral traditions, oral traditions, and whatever left I got passed on. There's some stuff left in there. But like some language and none of that. So we made our own based on what we came from here. And that's a and the beauty in that, and what we take, what we took from that and made it our own.

SPEAKER_03 34:17

And that is that is really, really important. That's like a the key, key piece for us to remember any times that we are disappointed that we are not performing language in the way that we would want to. When we say to ourselves, like, uh, I'm disappointed that I don't speak X certain way. It is really important to remember that language has been take that certain communities have tried to silence us for lifetimes, right? That that language and and policing language, the more that you can do that, the more that you can shame individuals in order to feel like they should not be expressing themselves, that they do not have a voice in order to express themselves. To to go back to both of your points in terms of feeling like the language was taken to some extent, right? Even if we're talking about Puerto Rican Spanish and you grew up in Puerto Rico all your life, there is judgment around that. Why? Because there has been colonization and colonialism for centuries, and it started out with Spanish, but it went into English, and that happened on the island. People were pushed off of the island, and then they were in spaces where they were again uh abused for not having their language. So our over centuries, right, and over time, we have generations like ours that are trying to make sense of that and trying to figure out how to uh move past the shame and the frustration that not only some of us have, but also our family members have. If we're trying to connect with our language, we don't always have the resources because that's highly privileged. A lot of people don't talk about all the privilege that it takes in order to have access to not only language and language resources, but say certain languages, right? So all the people who want to shame people for not speaking a certain way or not speaking certain languages, think about how much time and energy and effort and books and creating an immersive space at all times in order to say, this is how we speak, this is how we write, and this is how we read. And most of our family members are working multiple jobs, they're trying to survive. We're going to schools that are telling us English and English in this way, right? So we learn how to code switch because we're going to school systems that are teaching us how to code switch and speak the language of certain oppressive folks, right? And so we figure it out there, and then we go home and we kind of let our guard down when we figure out how to speak within our community and we know, okay, here this way, there this way. But if you don't have spaces and resources or that mindset of an individual, because even people that love us are still repeating certain problematic phrases about exactly that. That's uneducated. Don't say it this way. You sound like you're from here. Uh, don't speak in Spanish because they're gonna think blah, blah, blah, blah. So there are so many layers to the shame that a lot of individuals feel that are is related to language, which is why the business that I run, it's not like a cool, fun, catchy name of it's lupa talks because it stands for language understanding for pride and action. Because in all the work of teaching Spanish and seeing like, oh, wait, hold on. The system's kind of like supporting this kid, but not this kid. Okay, I don't love that. And then working on my doctorate and being like, oh yeah, historically that's happened. Oh yeah, the data proves that we're doing that in this yeah, and I can see it right now.

SPEAKER_02 38:19

I still see it in 2026.

SPEAKER_00 38:21

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 38:22

Just listening to you, I I'm going like a flashback in high school X amount of decades ago. Um in Spanish class. Like, you know, not a native speaker, Spanish speaker, did well in Spanish. But the Spanish speaking students always had problems in them in the Spanish class. And I understood why a little bit, but not as an adult. Now I'm like, oh I see how problematic it was now as an adult. Like understanding why there was a difference and why they was one thing, but now I'm just like, oh, yeah, this is the problem on so many levels.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

Because even I could sometimes not get help at home. And my father is a fluent Spanish speaker.

SPEAKER_02 39:06

Speaker. Right.

SPEAKER_01 39:07

It's just and sometimes I'm like, I don't know this, like I've never even heard and he and even he would be like, and and he's worked for places where he has done trans, you know, been like the translator. I mean, you know, and he's just like, um you know, it's like okay.

SPEAKER_02 39:25

I think that's something that we need to look at places like doing like teaching Spanish classes. Like, hey, it's not wrong. You didn't fail. Here are the different the different reasons, the different dialects. This is Castilian Spanish, and then you have your okay, I'm in New York, so most of my Spanish-speaking students are from Dominican Republic or Puerto Rico. Let's put that, let's attribute that into the lesson plan. Right, right, right. And California, most of my Spanish-speaking students are from Mexico. Let's try to figure this out.

SPEAKER_03 39:55

Exactly. And be and and elevate that. Like say, oh, what what are the different ways to say it? And how do we celebrate that there are different ways to say it instead of trying to correct you into the one of million ways that you can say straw?

SPEAKER_02 40:08

And so it is so patelillo and the pasteles, and like what no patelillo and banana, and the but like it's still a fight going on. And we just lead it to me. Put it on my plate, put it in my belly, it's all good.

SPEAKER_03 40:22

And it can be fun, right? Like the it is fun when we come at it from the point of curiosity, but when we're trying to like tell someone that's not how you say it, that's not how you do it. And yeah, no, uh language teachers has have historically been big ones who have been uh kind of reinforcing this concept of this is the right way, this is the wrong way. And there have been a lot of conversations and a lot of research to kind of move the needle forward. And part of what I worked on was like, how do we how does what we see, like our views on language and what we do align? Right? So because a lot of us are like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I love language. I value language. Language, all the languages, the better, right? But then to your point, if dad has to translate, are they paying him more for that? Oh, I don't know. I often not, right? Often not, they don't. Often not. Often the case is like, oh, so-and-so speaks Spanish, get them to do it. I mean, I for years as a Spanish teacher, I would be pulled into meetings that I should not have been pulled in. And I thought I was hoping, yeah, until I realized, like, no, no, no, no. They're taking advantage, they need to find the resources in order to support this this family, but they there are limited resources in schools, period. So teachers are trying to do their best, but the system is just problematic to begin with. So, how does what we say, you know, I value language, I value language, align with what we do. So we're gonna actually, yeah, are you paying for it? You know what I mean? Like it's cool, cool, cool, but is it cool, cool, cool, and you're gonna pay for it, and you're gonna put programming in in order to support the other thing that we're having conversations about, um, and I wonder if you guys have thoughts about this, is Spanglish. So Spanglish is used to be seen as a negative thing.

SPEAKER_00 42:22

Right. That was a bad thing.

SPEAKER_03 42:24

Yeah, it used to be that you were not speaking this language or that language, but the reality is that research has shown and a lot of work by academics studying students who have practiced uh what's called translanguaging, but we'll say Spanglish in this case, uh are it could use it, it could be used as a practice, as a tool for teachers to kind of push students more in the direction of working towards either more Spanish or more English by giving themselves more permission to say, okay, I don't it doesn't have to be all in the language in order for me to say it, right? Say it. So think about the way I explain it is like remember taking the SAT.

SPEAKER_04 43:10

Vaguely, yes.

SPEAKER_03 43:12

The point is that you know this the number one strategy that everyone says is like go through it, right? And if you get stuck on a question, skip it. Yeah. That's the number one everybody says, like, don't get stuck on a question, do as much as you can. Okay. Right? Hello, that makes sense because why would you get stuck on this one if cha like may maybe you know this, this, this, this, and this one. Right. Because you can come back to this.

SPEAKER_02 43:35

You come back to it, right?

SPEAKER_03 43:36

Right? So that is what it helps you do. That's what translanguaging helps you do. It it gives you a word, it gives you a phrase, it gives you a way that you can use your full linguistic repertoire. Your all of your language comes together in order to communicate with someone so that you can get most of your point across. And if you want to go back and get that word, get that phrase and talk about how to. Push yourself towards more Spanish or more English, then let's do that thoughtfully. But let's stop saying if it's not all in this language or all in this language, then we're not doing what we said earlier, communicating. That's the point.

SPEAKER_02 44:15

Get your get your thoughts out, get your feelings out, and we can always double back to how like how do you say this is good? And you can able to once you I feel like that is an amazing way to learn a language or like get proficient in one of the two languages. Because if you're getting your thought across completely and then you can be able to go back to find the words you're looking for, I feel like it gets stuck into your brain. You have an emotional attachment to it.

SPEAKER_00 44:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 44:43

An attachment to it. You're like, okay, this is how I said I remember when I was talking to Sally Mae and we were talking about we're talking about cooking, and and I remember that I use this word for it now, or whatever the case is. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 44:54

And it's such a perspective shift. Like all of a sudden it's not wrong.

SPEAKER_02 45:00

It's not wrong in the shade.

SPEAKER_03 45:03

And that's it, that's exactly what w I want for us to rethink is the I forgot a word, I'm wrong, I'm left.

SPEAKER_01 45:13

And I think that that's so you know, growing up in New York City, um, Agnes and I are both from Brooklyn. And I don't know, I I can't speak to what it was or or what it was like to grow up in other places. But Spanglish in New York it's always been, right? And Agnes and I joke how many words that we use in everyday communication.

SPEAKER_02 45:38

We can like four different languages. Four different languages in one sentence.

SPEAKER_01 45:42

But and then and I'm like, some some of these words, I'm like, wait, I was like a full grown adult before I realized that's actually not an English word. Like that's English, because you just used it, but but then thinking back on on Spanglish, it was such an excuse almost, right? Because you you get that understanding of what the word means because you're hearing it and it's being spoken to you. But you you don't have that pressure to reply in the language, right? So you can speak English back and that's acceptable. So the same like, you know, my grandmother, you know, like she she spoke English, she spoke Spanish, but we always responded in English, and it was okay, it didn't matter. Like the the the conversation just kept going. But for me, it never pushed me to to speak it more. Right. Because I never had to, and I always felt self-conscious. And when I was younger, and I would, you know, my father would be like, Oh, you you know, we say, What's the word for whatever? We would try and and you know, like we always say benicion, you know, it's not like right. So that that's like the only word that comes out of my mouth most of the time, right? But but when we would say something else, and he would be so happy and he would be like so proud of us, but then he would make a big deal, and then I'm like, Oh my god. Yeah, yeah. Which is ironic considering here I am putting that out there, you know. But all of that attention on me was like, no, no, please, like I just I'm Gen X, like please forget I exist. Please let me go in a dark room and hide. Like, don't don't give me the attention. And and I know that it came from a good place.

SPEAKER_03 48:00

Well, it it's that then attention plus ex and it are we now forming new expectations.

SPEAKER_01 48:05

Ah, expectations, yes.

SPEAKER_03 48:07

Right? Because now now uh like don't do that, don't now think that I'm gonna now only speak in Spanish because that's way too much pressure and I don't like it. Let eat. Yeah. So it you're right. I mean, absolutely Spanglish can be used as a crutch in the same way that it could be used as a tool. It has everything to do with uh the intention that you set. And honestly, people go one of two ways. Either their family is the easiest person to practice with, or per people, or most often it's exactly that. It's exactly that. It's the hardest. It's like the people that you care about. I hear partners and parents are the hardest people to practice with because you want to impress them, you admire them, you love them. I wrote a whole blog about how my partner and I, who have known each other since we were kids, um, we are both Puerto Rican, but we spoke to each other only in English. And so it, and we would speak to our families in Spanish, but to each other in English. So once we were a few years into dating, and I was like, this is important to me. If we decide to have kids, like I want us to speak to each other and to them. And so we had to figure out our way around establishing our Spanish-speaking relationship. And no one talks enough about how awkward it is to do that with the people that you love and you care about, defining a new relationship, defining new ways to use the language with each other. It's it's a lot, and ideally, you have some sort of um plan around it. Otherwise, uh, you get into these uncomfortable situations and then you think, I'm the problem, it forget about it. Like I'm not even gonna um go down that road because it was so awkward last time. But there are ways to go around uh go about it. And if you still have an opportunity to speak with your father, it might be it might be nice to let him know that you were shy.

SPEAKER_02 50:25

I wonder like how you felt like there was an expectation now. I wonder if he at that moment was like, did he feel like acceptance from his kids? Like, oh my god, they're learning my language. They're they're speaking, like they're speaking more, and I feel like except I don't yeah, accept isn't probably not the right word, but like a connection, like my kids are connecting to me and that makes me feel proud.

SPEAKER_01 50:49

So when we were young, he always said like he never he never really tried to force us, like he didn't speak a lot of Spanish in the house. My mother doesn't speak Spanish. He said he never wanted her to feel like she wasn't part of the conversation, or you know, like he never wanted her to feel left out, like she couldn't understand if he was speaking to me and my sister in Spanish. Right. So I can get that. But then after I mean, when they divorced, I was like eight. So it's a little bit past like that prime language learning age. But then sometimes, like so when he remarried, his his second wife was Puerto Rican, she spoke fluent Spanish, and there were plenty of times where they were just speaking Spanish in the house because mostly because they wanted to talk so that we couldn't really understand all of what they were saying, you know. And we we would pick up things and that and you know, and then like with music on and we would pick up words and oh, what does this word mean? Or what does that word mean? And he would tell us and and we would pronounce it, and and it was like, Oh, you you you know, you said that really well, and but it was never something that we felt like okay, now sit down, here is the lesson. And and you know, we've gone to Puerto Rico, and in Puerto Rico, my family actually has like history there. I mean, my uncle was a senator. I mean, you know, like I so I I even things like that make me feel like you know, like his office was in El Morro. I mean, I visited him there. He his name is on like their constitution. You know, like I feel like in some ways it it almost disconnects me. But when I was young, my aunt was the first person to take me to Puerto Rico, his sister. And you know, she took me to all those places and and this is and you need to meet your uncle and and you need to go here and you need to see this, and you need and and look, and this is the family seal, and uh okay, you know, and and she bought me these books, like you know, to practice the um like the verbs and stuff. But I just it it just became like and then I remember staying in my aunt's house and the um the the boy who lived next door, you know, like and we were we would be friendly, but like the the language was a little bit of a barrier, but we we made it work. I mean, you know, we were like eight, you know, so it was like who cares? Like here's a ball, how play, right?

SPEAKER_03 53:30

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 53:31

You know, no big deal. But when it came to that like expectation of okay, so what did you now learn? And I didn't feel confident or or even comfortable like with I mean and for an eight-year-old, obviously you don't have those that that those words to say like I don't feel comfortable, right? You you just know I don't know I I didn't I didn't I didn't do it. I I didn't I didn't succeed. So you can't say you didn't succeed, so you say you fail, right?

SPEAKER_03 54:07

You yeah, and then it it's also that that part of like you know, what did you learn? It it's tricky because again, someone's asking you, um, not through the lens of you know the the privilege of having an awareness of language learning, right? But the first thing that I'm hearing is you probably understood so much, right? Because we equate, we we're we're always like, okay, so what can you say? What can you do? Perform the language.

SPEAKER_00 54:38

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 54:39

Because if you know the language, then you should be able to speak as though that's everything that you do with the language, not that you read, write, speak, and listen. And so our heritage Spanish-speaking community is excellent. And even though our some elders think that we don't understand, and so they'll be speaking in Spanish, even sometimes about folks, and thinking that we don't understand, we do understand because listening comprehension is not equivalent to speaking comprehension, because listening input, you can do it passively, love it or hate it, right? And so being in that space, you were probably, whether or not you were trying to practice your language, you were surrounded by it. Spanish dominant space. So you have the privilege of just like listening to it more. So if hindsight being 2020, I I, you know, you would have had the opportunity to like practice listening a little bit more and build the courage for for and the confidence in order to start speaking, then that's something that looks a lot different than now perform the language. With that being said, um it makes a lot of sense why community members get to adulthood. But once we get to adulthood, I do feel like it, I feel like there's so many reasons why it makes sense that our language was taken from us or our language was not passed down or our language has gone dormant, right? Like it's gone to sleep to some extent. Um but there's no reason why we can't decide to wake it up. It is uncomfortable, right? It is shameful and very emotional. Yeah. And a lot of the folks that I I talk to have to process a lot. And so I always start with, you know, the language story, which you shared, both of you have shared elements of your language story, which I don't think we talk about enough, right? Like, where did we grow up? Why do we talk about or talk the way that we talk? Who are the people that we admire that made us think that we should talk like that, right? Because language is part passive but part active of like, oh, I like how she talks. I admire her, I admire him, them. Okay, I want to start saying things like that. So I appreciate you sharing a language story, but I think we need to talk more about that and then start working towards, you know, practicing our language because what I feel our community has an opportunity to do is think about how we're using language in order to represent those spaces and those people and those places in our culture in an intentional way. I it makes sense why we didn't have it in the way that we would have wanted to. We have to grieg that, right? To some extent. And then moving forward, I like to say I use the language that I use intentionally in certain spaces, knowing that I'm gonna trigger people, because I want to be an act of resistance. I want to make it so that people have to hear Spanish in certain places. I want it so that people hear Spanglish in certain places. I want them to see my doctorate and my degrees and understand that all of my education goes into the ways that I speak both of those languages as well as English. And so when I say certain things, it's not because of anything other than I am honoring where I've been and people that I admire and places I want to go. So that another tangent for you.

SPEAKER_02 58:39

No, I love that. I actually like that.

SPEAKER_01 58:43

It's like so simple, but it's so it's so difficult and and so hard sometimes, you know? Like, but it it it just it sounds like it's so simple.

SPEAKER_03 58:53

But then when when it comes to the- It's simple, but it's still emotionally it's emotionally charged. It is emotionally pretty much so. Yeah, but it is the same the way that I see it, is it's the same as fashion, right? Choosing what you want to wear, how how you wanna wear it, spaces that you want to the it and it could be fashion, it could be language, it could be uh, you know, your personal interest, anything that you do, that you do it because it matters to you, not because people are telling you that this is the right or wrong.

SPEAKER_02 59:28

It's that who you are, what you want to be, what you where your thoughts are at, how you woke up this morning. We need more of that.

SPEAKER_01 59:36

Yes. It's just I laugh because there's so many times where I have I'm going somewhere and I'm I've got like 47 outfits, and I'm texting Agnes and I'm like, what about this? And what about this? And what about this? And she's like, Oh, you should do this and you should do that. And I put it on, and I'm like, ooh. Rewatching is amazing. No, and then I'll put on the same thing that I've worn every other time because I'm like, okay, this is this is like my uniform, you know, like it's okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:02

This is stuff that she already has.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:04

Because I want to wear it. I mean that maybe that's the entry point. Before you speak Spanish, before you practice Spanglish, before you practice language, and the way that put a word on that skirt.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:14

Yeah. Put on the channel.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:17

Put the skirt to a word and wear that skirt with that with that phrase. Oh my god. See, back to that Spanglish connection thing going on, that emotional attachment. She's like, I hate you, Agnes. Because I want to be the one that six months, six months from now, like, remember when we're talking to uh Zemana? Remember that? Put the skirt on. She's like, put the skirt on.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:36

Yeah, exactly. I mean, it our our comfort with discomfort is a muscle like everything else.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:47

It's true, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:48

And so it because language is so intertwined with identity, um, and it matters so much to our community, it is this is why we need to take the baby steps that we need to. And I always say I focus on confidence and we'll get to the proficiency because if you think you will practice your way into confidence, it I've just I just haven't seen it because people are like they get stuck on the right and wrongness. And it's like it's not about the right and wrongness, it's the you feeling self-assured that you know why you're doing it and that you are doing your best, right? And that you know your language story.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:32

People tell people that same way to learn, whenever they're learning anything new, that's exactly what they tell them to. That's how you like just I used to start doing line dancing. Oh, and it's fun. I just have fun. I'm like, I don't care if I get it or not. And it's at by trip like four, five, six, I'm like, oh, I'm not counting the steps in my head anymore. I'm just doing it. And I don't think anyone has put that into, at least for me, I have I haven't seen it, put that saying into linear language.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:03

But I will say this. Yeah. Oh, go ahead. I didn't I thought you were done. No, I am so like um a year or so ago, my like my kids and I, we got really into like Duolingo and I I was trying French. You know, it it it's been about a year since I tried, right? But anyway, and so like the few little words that I picked up, I had zero qualms about trying to say them or screwing them up or whatever, because there was no attachment, there was no expectation. And so if if if I could go and you know, for lack of a better word, right? I can go make a fool of myself in any other language and really not care if I pronounce right or use the right conjugation, you know, and I'm like, okay, cool, like I screwed up. Oh, okay, what's the right way? No big deal.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:05

So what if you modified expectations and also kept the integrity of who you are and what you know? Because what happens often in our community is we are so worried about expectations that we'll be like, I don't speak Spanish. And it's like, yes, you do. Yes, you do. Uh I don't I don't understand Spanish. It's like, yes, you do. Yes, you do. So I I don't love the but I get why we do that, right? We do that because we want to safeguard our emotions and we're saying, don't expect it, you know, lower your expectations of me because you're gonna hurt my feelings if you come to you just nailed it. Yeah. So what I like to tell people is a version of you figure out your wording around this, but something along the lines of I uh understand a lot of Spanish. I'm Puerto Rican. I uh grew up outside of Puerto Rico. I am coming back to my language, I'm practicing, it's important to me. If you can be patient with me, I'd appreciate it because I love it. So something along those lines of mira, yo soy Puerto Rico, nací o me cree in Los Estados Unidos ando como quisiera. Entiendo mucho.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:33

I understood everything you said. Of course, you do. I mean, I'm sure even you even had this. I understood it.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:39

Yeah, yeah. Because I it that modifying expectations, but still saying, I am who I am. I am Puerto Rican, I do know, I am practicing because it's important to me. And so if you're down, let's practice, right? And they s they get to slow down. And most times when you hit them with the let's let's modify our expectations, then most times they're like, you're great, right? Because you are coming from a place of I'm practicing, right? You're practicing that that the dynamic of listening, speaking through humility, but not discounting yourself, because we can be humble without saying we don't know nothing. We we do know a lot, right? We can claim everything that we know and still say that we're working on it. And we are we would do that in other spaces, right? You can say, like, oh, I'm practicing French, but I I really don't know a lot, right? It would be a much shorter conversation, but we but most times we're trying to save other people from the long conversation, right? We're trying to say, I am this, I'm not this. But most of us are not this or not this, right? Like we are all complicated human beings. What if we started talking about it as such? Such.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:09

Because we do it in other aspects of our life, but I mean, I I'm not multilingual at all. So I can't understand what you're I mean, I can understand, but I don't I really can't understand. Why don't we do it for you? We meaning you, why can't we do it? For the languages that we're supposed to be speaking. I say that with quotes for those who are listening to us. Um, we give ourselves those graces in other aspects.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:35

Mm-hmm. Funny. And you are multilingual.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:38

You are. I am. I mean of a multilingual household. Let's put it that way. You know, and and that's what I'm saying. I don't have the same expectation Lisa has as far as I should know this language. That's fair. So, like, give yourself the grace. Like, why can't you give yourself the grace? I know it's it's a theoretical question. I know why. It's just like, let's start giving grace to the city.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:01

Well, and and we need to we need to practice that because we often have a hard time giving ourselves that grace.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:07

But then we see other people and we're like, oh You'll give it all automatically, give it to you. So loving. We're like, you I got you.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:14

Exactly. Right. Being in spaces, uh that I uh so I have a practice session on Tuesdays, um, actually tonight, um, called Spanglish Sessions, and we practice and it's not leveled, it's not a class. And so I tell people from the very beginning, we're gonna use our full language, right? And so that means that some people are gonna be using more English to Spanish in their Spanglish, some people are gonna be using more Spanish to English, and that is great because we are communicating. There are gonna be people who are more proficient than you, there are gonna be people who are less proficient than you, like real life. So be kind when someone uh needs the support, right? Because you will want the support one day, and we're modeling that compassion for somebody else who's going through the process. And oftentimes language learners are like, I want to be in the intermediate because I wanna, I wanna advance my skills. And it's like teaching is the best way to learn, and modeling compassion to others is a really great way to get past some of that um confidence that we've lost along the way. Maybe because we see, oh, okay, I will always be more proficient than someone, and I will always be less proficient than someone. So the mod I can't measure myself up against this perfect way of speaking because there's no such thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:43

That's true. I mean I never really thought about it that way. But that's here for so what what made you want to create Luputons?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:58

Luput, yeah. Um my mouth, Asa. Oh sorry. No, I was like, but share a brain, so there's that.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:06

You are one. Um so I uh finished so I had worked uh as a teacher for about 12 years, and then I wanted to basically finish off my doctorate as as quickly as possible. So towards the end, I was teaching online um and working on my doctorate. And when I was kind of closing out my doctorate, I was like, I've learned so much about everything that we've talked about today, and I uh wish that I would have known it. Right? I wish that I would have been in a Spanish class that was highlighting that. I I wish that families knew more about this so that parents weren't disappointed in themselves because they're not passing down the language. Kids are not disappointed in themselves because they're not receiving the language. Our families are, each individual is taking on these emotional baggages because we're not talking enough about all of the stuff that we talked about today. And so I thought, how can I bring this awareness? Because I don't want to teach just like Spanish classes, um, because then someone's gonna come under the misconception that that I'm gonna teach Spanish in the way that they've been taught in other spaces. And I think that you guys can hear, I have a very different philosophy than many other um classrooms. And so I uh wanted to create a space that was focused on language first, towards building pride and then being able to use that because I thought if we can start to heal some of these wounds in terms of how we are expected to speak language, in terms of how language is passed down, in terms of everything that we've talked about today, if we can have a better awareness of it, then hopefully people will feel more comfortable coming back to their language. And if you can come back to your language, then you can find entry points to go back to your homeland to have to preserve family stories. And for me, I don't know if you guys identify strongly with astrological signs, but I identify heavy as a cancer. And so I feel I don't have kids, but I feel like very maternal energy, and I just want for us to do a better job of taking care of each other and giving ourselves voices. I feel like I'm an extrovert, heavy. So I I when I didn't feel like I could express myself in Spanish, it felt like I was like in a closet, like in a locked room. Like I did not know, I felt trapped being present in situations where I was with other people. I felt like I know I can do this, but I can't do this. And when I found out why I was feeling that way, it made me feel like we don't need to, we don't need to keep this a secret. Let's tell everyone. So the purpose of Lupatox is to basically shine a light. And most people want like the tips and tricks to learn the conjugations for the subjunctive and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, I'm not your girl.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:34

I mean, and that's funny because to me, I'd be like, how do I get into that closet? Please. Just shut the door and forget I exist. Just leave me here. And on the astrological side, here I am. I sit on the cusp, always on the fence, never on one side. Which two? Scorpio and Sagittarius. I like to identify as a Sagittarius most days, but mostly because my sister is a Scorpio, so I have to be my sister's a Scorpio too.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:04

I love them.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:06

But I like to pick and choose.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:07

Now that makes more sense why you you you have your people and you hold on tight. That's a Scorpio.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:15

We are we are a loyal bunch.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:17

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Agnes, what about you?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:20

I'm a Libra.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:22

Oh, my partner's a Libra. Love her.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:24

Smack Dad in the middle, straight October Libra. I love you until I don't. Yeah. And then if I don't love you, you did something wrong. For me not to love you, it's your fault. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:35

Oh. Charmers. She is. I can't take her anywhere.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:41

She called Lisa calls me superficially friendly because when we could be out, and it was just asked for people to start talking to me. And I'm having a conversation. I'm asking, like, how are you modeling them? Meanwhile, in my heart, in my head, I'm like, oh my God, please leave me the f alone. Lisa, on the other hand, is outwardly leave me alone. But she's really like, oh my God, tell me more. I'm like, that's a Sagittarius thing. And I'm I'm actually the nice one. She's really the nice one. She truly is. That's funny. Yeah. And I'm just like, oh God, leave me alone. Go away. But Scorpios, yeah, I gotta say, are my people. Yeah. I mean, yeah, once I got once you got one, you can't get rid of me. No, sorry, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. Your partner must be amazing as a Libra. Obviously, she's amazing. Your partner's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:34

Yeah. Yep. 13 years and counting.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:37

Slightly biased in my opinion.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:39

Yeah. I got a bunch of Libras in my world. So I I have an affinity for Libras.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:45

We're so not humble. I have, yeah. Oh yeah. I have one Libra child, the youngest. And that child, she's like the most savage of them all. What?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:01

Yeah. People never get mad at me for being savage. I'm like, wow.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:05

That's what I'm saying. Charming. All of the Libras I know are like charming as can be.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:11

I'm like, I'm serious. I'm trying to get you away from me.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:19

And he's an introvert too, so that's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:22

Yeah. Yeah. People think we're not because people are, I oh no, yeah. Attracted to us. Like they want to be around us, but we're like, leave, just go away. My social media is like here, and you're here. Go away. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, and she's laughing because she's flashbacks to all the time.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:45

Are you traumatized, Lisa? I'd be like, we're walking in the supermarket, and I'm like, who is that? I don't know. And why are you having a conversation with them? Oh, because they just started talking to me. And we're like this one is like walking down the aisle and she's like, Oh, I'm so sorry, hun. And I'm like, what happened? And she's like, Oh, she bumped my car. And I'm like, then why did you apologize? I don't know. She just just I'm like, I got one of them.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:08

Don't worry. I love them.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:10

I think if I could make someone just smile or not be in a bad mood, it took me a half a second and took nothing from me. Why the hell not?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:17

I mean, yeah, but also you could just keep walking. They pumped into you. I was gonna say a little scorpion, little New York. They pumped you, you could just keep walking.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:35

Like that's I don't know why you had to stop and have a conversation. I've gotten nicer since I left New York though.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:42

I mean Yeah, well, I'm nicer because I'm not sure. Wisconsin has done some stuff to you. So I was just there and we went into the city.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:51

You saw why I'm the way I am though.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:54

And I I also struggle with getting out of conversations because I I don't know how to say I don't want to talk to you. Like that's why I won't start the conversation. That makes sense. I get it.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:07

The empathy is too high. It's like I can't leave you, so I just won't ever say hi to you.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:11

So we're having we're we're in a fast food place, we're waiting for our food, and there's a woman there, and she's obviously um, she rode the short bus, okay? And I don't have like listen, that's fine. Whatever. And she's talking to me, and I, you know, it's like, oh hi, how are you doing? You know, whatever. And then she's telling me all of this story about how she can't travel and her somebody is really.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:35

That's everyone in Wisconsin. Every you can't go get milk without someone, like without the teller telling, like, it's that no, she's really telling me all about her aunt or uncle, somebody who lives somewhere else and they're really sick and they don't know if she's gonna die.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:48

And I'm like, lady, I met you three seconds ago. And so I'm like, oh my god, I'm so sorry. Like, I I hope that they're okay. I, you know, I hope things get easier for you. And she's like, Yeah, and she just keeps talking. And Agnes is like, uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:00

I walked in and I looked at her, and I thought it laughed me.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:04

Please help me.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:06

I like it's not you need a code word. No, I was gonna look code work or not, I was gonna look at her sufferer.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:14

Grab me and take me away. And I was and I felt bad because the late, obviously, you know, like I didn't want to be rude to her because she was she was a very genuine person, but I'm like, I I want to be anywhere else. Like, I'm really sorry for your pain and suffering right now, but I don't I don't want to be in this conversation. Please, please set up a phrase of like that would have been a perfect time for me to be like struggling and it was amazing. So like, yeah. That would have been the perfect time for me to bust out in Spanish and be like, I don't need to.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:49

And if she came out in Spanish, I would have been laughing at you.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:52

That would have been great. That would have been a great time to practice.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:55

Yeah, well, she wanted to get out of the conversation.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:57

I would have been um all the motivation.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:00

Yeah. There's a motivation to stop speaking Spanish.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:04

Exactly, exactly. And there were no expectations with her, so none. That's that is true. Expectations means motivation.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:10

Okay. So years and years and years ago Wow. I mean, this had to be like maybe 15 years ago at this point. I went to Dominican Republic with a few friends. When we got there, they're all just English speakers, they're not um like the there was no like Latinx for any of them. So we're there and I was trying to ask for something and I don't remember what it was, but the guy was like, Are you boring? And I'm like, Yeah, and he's left like and then he starts talking, I'm like, slow down, slow down, slow down. And it was like, and and I I was able to more or less get, you know, like the communication across. So that was like the only probably like the one and only time that I felt like not so uncomfortable practicing because there was no expectation. These people were never gonna see me again after these like three days, you know?

SPEAKER_03 1:20:13

And you gotta what I'm hearing.

unknown 1:20:18

What?

SPEAKER_03 1:20:18

I couldn't. So you gotta travel more. I wish I could. Yeah. No, I mean, I uh uh I studied abroad in Spain and I found it so much easier to practice Spanish over there because they were like you're clearly not Spanish. But you're also not gringa. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:38

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:38

So what are you? Yeah, exactly. And I was like, and they were like, oh yeah, that makes sense. And I was like, So I feel so sick. This is amazing. So yes, uh, it makes a lot of sense when it's sometimes it's like harder to be within your own community because you feel more shy, more nervous. Similar to the family, right? Like going back to like family partner, speaking with them is just you want to impress them.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:04

And it wasn't even Puerto Rico, so it it it took that expectation out of it too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm I'm allowed to be here in DR and and and not mess up.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:16

Right, you don't have to be right. Nice.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:19

Yeah, like I didn't I didn't feel that um like trepidation that I feel when I'm even in my own house sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:29

It's funny. Whenever I'm with a Spanish speaking person, I I someone starts talking to me in Spanish, I look with like dear eyes. I'm like, say something, because I'm not saying anything.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:38

But see, that's exactly what happens to a lot of a lot of heritage Spanish speakers, and that's what puts them in a panic.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:44

Uh uh, they're like, I I don't I'm in the same boat.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:47

I like Span a lot more.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:49

Say something. I don't because it won't be me at work though.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:52

I But that's because you curse in Spanish.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:55

And I could, but and then I have co-workers. I have a couple of co-workers that are Mexican descendants, and he goes, Oh, I'm about to order from this Puerto Rican place. I said, That's a Puerto Rican place here, but where? He's like, Here's the menu. I'm like, okay. So I I put my order in. He's like, Okay, so what's this? I'm like, what do you mean what's this? That's chicken stew. He's like, I don't, I don't read Spanish. I'm like, okay, here we go. This is what this says, this is what this says, this is this one. But what do you want? You want the thought on this? Okay, this is what you're gonna get. And but meanwhile, back at the farm, I know high school Spanglish.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:26

If that's the menu is the menu is a kind of what you were doing was not just linguistic, it was cultural.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:35

I think and well, as a New Yorker, I'm part Puerto Rican, I'm part of Italian. You know, you're putting it in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:43

And you should absolutely, and so should everyone who everyone else should, also. Yeah, exactly. If you I always claim what you want to claim, just practice what you're claiming.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:55

Okay, I do that all the time when I'm driving and cursing in Spanish. The one time I cursed in English, Lisa goes, What did you say? I said something, whatever. She's like, Oh, I didn't understand it because it was in English.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:10

Wait, what was that? I don't know what it's in English anymore.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:12

She's like, oh, oh, okay. Yeah. Is she having a stroll? What is going on over there? She's cursing in English. Something's gonna call 911 for her.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:24

She never cursed it in English.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:25

That's practicing it.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:26

I just think it just is as it hits home when you do it in a different language.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:32

It means so much more.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:38

Oh but that I mean you know, getting back to Lupa talks.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:43

Yeah, dangerous.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:45

I love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:47

We go on a topic.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:48

Oh my god, we never make it out alive. I wouldn't make it out alive. Neither.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:53

But Lupa talks. As you know, on on my own journey is kind of how and I'm not on social media too much. You know, there are days where I'm like down the rabbit hole and scrolling, and there are most days where I never even open the app. That's great. But as I was, you know, doom scrolling, that's how I came across your profile. And I'm like, oh, wait. And it's like, hold on, I feel seen. Like, hold on, does she know me? Is she peeking in my house? Like, can she see me through this? Like Yeah, because it it really you know, and and you and you see like ads all the time, right? On um like Instagram or whatever for this or for that. And oh, you want to learn Spanish? Oh, you want to speak like a native? Oh, just do this. And then like click on the ad. And I'm like, all right, next, you know. But yours was different. Yours wasn't like click on the ad. Yours was like, here's the content, like this is what we're doing. And you know, like if you want to know more information, like here's how you can. But there was no gatekeeping, there was no and it and it was more like hold on, I want to see more. Like I you know and then and then after that is when I reached out to you because I was like, wait, I I really want to talk to her, like I really wanna who is this person and like who sent her to me? Like, you know what I mean? Like the ancestors are are are like sending me the message, you know. They tell me how much adobo to put and they sent her to me, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:37

I appreciate you saying that because I uh you know how it is that you put something in in the world and you don't know who is getting it, but hopefully if you're saying something in a way that you feel like would resonate with you, it it touches your people. And so yeah, we have a really lovely small and growing community of individuals, and it I don't uh we live in a capitalist world, and I don't I try not to buy into it. So I that is why Spangler sessions will forever be free because I want for there always to be it. We've talked about how hard it is to even try to start to get on this journey, to meet other people who are on this journey. Um, and so not everything that I can that I do can be free, but that is one thing that for sure I say to myself like our people need a place that they can just pop in and like see what's going on and hear and see that they're not alone. And um especially, you know, we're we're kind of very dispersed, but with all of the technology that we have right now, everyone can find, you know, uh a few minutes to pop into a Zoom call. So that Spangler session is about that.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:03

I mean, I saw that you do that, and there's a part of me that keeps wanting to be like joint. Just click it, just click it. But like I I I'm not ready for that. You're not ready for that. I'm not ready to be in the Zoom with everybody else yet.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:16

Yeah, some people uh like a lot of people are like, I'd rather one-on-one than I do one-on-ones. And I'm actually um starting this small group cohort that's launching at the end of September that's gonna be application-based because I want to make sure that the right people are in it. It's not just like the first people to sign up. I want to make sure like it's 10 people, it's the 10 people that want it the most, that need it the most. Like those are the people. But Spanglish sessions, a lot of people say the same thing. They're like, um, you know, I don't know that I'm ready to be around people. And you will know when you're ready, but what I will tell you is that the the group is so kind, so kind and so receptive and so supportive. Uh so once you go, you're gonna say to yourself, Wow, I didn't realize like that I would be okay, but thankfully I'm okay. Um, and that again, like I said before, that you're gonna see and be really impressed. And motivated, I think. I always am by people who are starting the journey, by people who are in the middle of their journey, by people who you feel like, why are you even doubting yourself? There's no reason. But they, it's still a scary thing to meet people. Forget about talk about a whole, you know, use your language, a language that you don't feel like you speak in the way that you would want to. It's hard to meet people, but the the group is magnificent and we preserved it really well. And we accept only people who will kind of follow our norms. So take your time. But when you're ready, and anyone who's listening, and it's not just for heritage speakers, by the way. There are some folks who are not heritage speakers, but they want to practice their Spanish. We call them the primos. Um, and they're the folks who are like, they they just like the space and they are okay with us saying this is heritage Spanish speaker first. So you might hear themes that that you're like, uh, I don't, I don't, I didn't experience that, which is okay because not everything needs to prioritize everyone. This space is specifically for heritage Spanish speakers. And at the same time, if you are down for that ride because your partner speaks Spanish, because your loved one speaks Spanish, because you just like the language a lot and you know how important it is, but you want to do it in a safe space, you're welcome to come to that as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:04

I can't imagine that it wouldn't it would be anything but kind and um receptive just after speaking with you. Um I can't imagine that you would create something that was anything else.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:21

I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:22

And and I hope that one day I'm gonna be like joined because it I you know it it does it does call me. I'm just yeah I'm I'm not there yet.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:37

So if in the future you say to yourself, what is the baby step of that? I would say we have a specific session. So there's Spanglish sessions that we practice our Spanish, but there's a specific session that's called Sana Circles. Those are not focused on improving or working on our Spanish at all. That is all about language, identity, and belonging. And so in those spaces, of course, anybody who wants, we all practice Spanglish because at some point I will always speak Spanish because that is, I just make room for Spanish wherever I am. But with that being said, the prompts and what we're trying to work on is okay, for example, we've had themes about what is your why? Like why you wanna, and then you hear other people talking about their why. You hear we've had one about names and how our names have changed, right? So, you know, how have your name, who calls you what? Do you have different nicknames? What it sounds more Spanish speaking, how are our names uh an example of resilience? How uh how do we get to choose our names? Because sometimes, you know, we are in life events where we say to ourselves, okay, I'm getting married now, I have to think about uh choosing my name. But you could choose your name whenever you want. You can choose your name today to like I used to go by CC, X-I-X-I, because it was easier for people. And I decided, no, my my name is Xiomara. And not just that, but I I went by Ciomara Rivera, and now I go by Ciomara Rivera Pagan, because that's my mother's maiden name, and in Puerto Rico we have the full longer name, and I wanted to reclaim all of that. But that's not because of anything other than I just wanted to, so I did it. And now we get to but any of us can do that. Anyways, the point of Sana Circles is that, right? Conversations around language, identity, and belonging, processing that so that hopefully one day you can go into the Spanglish speaking sessions.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:42

There's a little bit more receptivity on that one than the other one, so I'll take it.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:47

Well, I hear when I hear you say that is you know, like when you get hurt as a kid, and I feel like that's where that came from.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:55

Yeah. You can do it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:59

It's not about just remember, it's about progress, not perfection.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:04

Absolutely. There's no such thing as perfection, right? And that's the point of that.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:09

It's not even it's about progress to get to that point where you're ready to hit joint.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:13

Yeah, and that's that's something that we say all the time. Participation looks different. So some people just showing up to be in a space, but not having to speak.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:27

Yeah, that's a big one for me.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:28

That's okay. You know, there's no expectation that anybody participates in any other way than being respectful. So that that is that is the bar. So some people just come and they listen and they just want to be a part of and in spaces that talk about these themes, but they don't want to pop in because they're like, I don't, I'm not ready to speak.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:50

I don't want to be called on.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:51

Yeah, I will not call on you. No, but I do, I do, I do it. I do it with the people that I know uh want that, right? So there are some extroverts, there are some people who want to say and want to uh the teacher in me wants to engage them, right? I don't want it, so I will call on people, but I don't call on anybody that's new, and I don't call on anybody that I know that I don't have a personal relationship and know that they would appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:28

Right, right. But I know that there's probably other people out there like me who might want to join, but but are afraid to be put on the spot. And I'm the kind of person where, you know, if I'm wherever I'm at, right, I I don't want to be called on, whether it's to come in the circle and dance or to get up on stage or whatever, but if you take me, I'm gonna follow because I don't know how to say no. I struggle with that. So, you know, like I'm gonna go along. I'm I'm going to do what you ask me to do. But sometimes just knowing that I don't have I if I struggle with saying no because I don't want to like disappoint people, I won't take that chance because I might get called on. And so like knowing that that's not what happens, I'm I'm sure there has to be other people who are hearing this that are like, oh thank god, like okay, yeah, you know, you know, because like I want to do that, but I don't want to get called on either.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:36

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, I mean I have some people who don't even show up, but they do have the intention of showing up. And if they sign up uh at least during the summertime, I've been playing around with sending the recordings so that people can start to like take a peek in. Because some again, some uh the schedule is the schedule, but I I want to make this as accessible as possible. Um, so I share the recordings, um, but they're unlisted. So only the people who sign up can uh access. So there's many safe entry points for you.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:16

I'm gonna have to take a deeper dive on your webpage now. But I appreciate all the information, not just for me, but you you being here with us and sharing, you know, just just everything about you and what motivates you, you know, like it really is something different, but I think that it's something that a lot of us didn't know we needed until we knew we needed it, you know? Thank you. Before we wrap up, two things. I want you to have the opportunity to tell anyone and everyone where they can, you know, find you and and you can plug anything that you would like to plug. And then I also want to know if there's any like last words that you want to leave for our listeners.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:03

Oh, that's so cool. No pressure.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:05

Yeah, no pressure. I'm like, oh, that's so good. Okay. So uh I am on all social media as Lupa Talks. So L-U-P-A-T-A-L-K-S. Um so Instagram is the one that I probably use the most. TikTok, YouTube. If anything that I said resonated, um I do have a bunch of YouTube videos that kind of deep dive into um some of those topics so that people can look into it more if you're interested in participating. We have Spanglish sessions on Tuesday. We have two more for the summer, and then we're gonna take a little bit of a break and then we're gonna start up in the fall. But they run for 10 to eight weeks um each season. And so Spanglish sessions in the fall. I am piloting a cohort called En Confianza Cohort. That's the small group that I mentioned that applications are open. And the whole point is we're spending four weeks focusing on confidence building, and then the last four weeks on proficiency building. So after we build our foundation, then we're gonna deep dive into whatever it is that drives you culturally, and you'll have like a project that you'll work on in terms of building your language ability. I do one-on-ones, and oh, and I have a game. So this game is called Bimelon. And so going back to the conversation that we were um talking about of like you want to practice with people, but how do you kind of start that conversation? What do you talk about? This game is essentially just like speaking cards that you can bring into multilingual groups. They're in Spanish and English. And so the idea is that ideally, our families that speak multiple languages can pull a card and answer it in whatever way they want to challenge themselves. So that might be more Spanish, that might be more English, right? And so, in my family, for example, my grandmother can practice her English, I can practice my Spanish, she can help me with my Spanish, I can help her with her English. Everyone is supporting each other. Um, so those cards are uh available as well. And then the last question, that's a good one.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:28

That's the one we don't prepare you for.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:31

Yeah, that's good. I think it I would I would overthink it if you gave it to me with more time. I think I would like for everyone to play with language more and think about how you're creating space for yourself and for others in the way that you use language. That's good.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:55

That's really on that note. That worked as on that note, that was amazing. I get emotional. Don't at least not tell me what I have feelings.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:07

Don't tell me when you have feelings.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:08

It ruined my reputation.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:16

We really appreciate you taking the time to sit with us and you know to just open up about everything. It really does mean a lot to us, and we appreciate not just you, but the work that you do. And we feel grateful that you chose to share your story and and yourself with us and our listeners. So thank you for that. And I will be following. I will be for myself. I will I will be, I will take baby steps, but I want to get there. Yeah. But in the meantime, um, you know, everyone can find out more about us, our show, our guests at Sassinsifs.com. We remind everyone, even though nobody was drinking today, to always drink responsibly and not drink and drive. And until next time, I'm Lisa. And I'm Agnes. And we are out of here. See you later. Bye.