SPOTLIGHT Kelly Catlin

SPEAKER_03 0:00

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SPEAKER_04 0:15

Hi and welcome to this episode of Assassin's Sips Spotlight. I'm one of your hosts. I'm Lisa, and today I am sipping on my fancy water, just lemon and a little bit of mint.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

I'm your co-host, and today I'm actually drinking alcohol because I haven't been lately. I have a little rose with some frozen fermented pineapples in it. So this is gonna go downhill real fast.

SPEAKER_04 0:41

And we have the pleasure today of having our special guest is author and advocate Kelly Catlin. So please welcome her to our show. Thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

I feel like we should have like a sound of like of um applause in the background. We need to edit that in so all that things. I'll look forward to it.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

I took care of it for you. Clapping for myself. Yes, we should hold. I'm my own biggest cheerleader. No. Should I tell you what I'm drinking? Because it's boring. It's um it's a brand new filtered water because my husband changed the water filter this morning.

SPEAKER_04 1:18

That's good. That's exciting. Brand new water.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

I know, brand new water. It's got its own marketing. Brand new clean water.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

But in a really cool cup, though.

SPEAKER_02 1:26

It is. It is. It's these nice metal cups. I try to avoid plastic. So it's kind of like my thing. I've been trying to go plastic free. And the metal cups are nice because they keep the drink cool too. So I don't know what the brand is, but I'm going to sound like a brand ambassador for Green Steel, available on Amazon for $10.99. Nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

I feel guilty because I have a plastic cup. But I got it from Starbucks Reserve in Chicago. And their to-go cups are like not like throw away cups, they're a little bit sturdier. So I was like, oh.

SPEAKER_04 1:57

Reusable, yeah. I love you.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

I love that. Yeah. No, we try to do that. We're big with anything like green or glowing, like eco-friendly. Like, although I I'm mostly like a music writer. Like I've done some uh research journalism for colleges about like the environment and global warming and things like that. So that's just me.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

I like my you bring up global warming. And I feel like over the last 20 years, it's changed from global warming, because that's when we grew up, it was global warming, to climate change because people don't understand what global warming really was. And they're like, well, why is it colder in the winter? It was global warming.

SPEAKER_04 2:37

Um, because it snowed. So how could it be warm? Right. Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

So but then the day after tomorrow came out, and it kind of made sense for some people. They're like, oh, I get it now. I'm like, I guess. Do you use that interchangeably? Do you still find people are confused? What is your take on global warming voice versus climate change?

SPEAKER_02 2:59

No, I'm a throwback. I just say antiquated terms all the time. I'm sure that's just a throwback. I I probably say stuff. People are gonna be like, I have a second head, I'm sure. I'm just Google it. I'm sure it'll come back to the 90s somehow.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

That's how you weed out the people who are old enough to talk to you, right?

SPEAKER_02 3:19

I know, I know. Some of the things people say, and I'm like, no, never mind. I'm they're like, Well, I'm this old, and I'm like, oh my God, my first teaching job was before you were born, and I just feel like a relic. Yeah. Yeah. I'll never forget it. One of the online magazines that I write for, I was talking to the um, to the the the the guy who runs it, and he was like, Oh, so me and you are the dinosaurs. And I was like, I'm 40. This I mean, I'm gonna be 43 now, but it was just funny getting called the dinosaur. So I was like, that's that's where we're at in life, I guess. I'm a relic.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

If that makes you feel better, Lisa and I will be. Can I? Because I'm okay with it. Lisa and I will be 47 a little bit later on, like a couple months, we'll be 47. You know what I mean? We were riding the dinosaurs. We were riding the dinosaurs to school. Riding the dinosaurs to school, right?

SPEAKER_04 4:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

What do you say, Lisa? Up the hill, back and forth to school. The same hill.

SPEAKER_04 4:12

12 miles in the snow, uphill both ways. No shoes.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

No shoes. Right. Oh, we forget the no shoes, right?

SPEAKER_04 4:19

You know, times were tough back then when your dinosaur couldn't take you. So it's true.

SPEAKER_02 4:24

And it's funny. The biggest thing, too, you learn is like um a lot of them see Nirvana as a brand and not a band. And I'm like, now I feel extra old. You know, you see like the smiley face t-shirts, and a lot of them them don't. And then you've got people like me that, you know, are old enough to remember everything and have lived it. So it's just um, yeah, you really feel like the Cripkeeper when you see that. So, you know.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

I think my knees just pop sitting down.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

Um that's the running joke of my house. My husband's like, Did you throw your back out sneezing again? I was like, Yeah, basic.

SPEAKER_00 4:57

Okay, that's not nice. It's a real problem. It's a big problem.

SPEAKER_02 5:01

It is. I was brushing my hair and I couldn't like turn my neck a certain way for like two months. You know, or it's like, don't startle me when I'm brushing my hair. I'll give myself whiplash.

unknown 5:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

And I was sitting down in my car going straight. I wasn't making any turns. All of a sudden my back gave out. I'm like, what the just I was messed up for two days. I was like, and what I do, I was sitting down straight.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

You know what I've started to do too? And I don't know if it's if on behalf of me or my car, but when I like, if I'm making like a sharp turn or going up a hill, I groan like with it. Here we go. Like all I'm doing is like applying more pressure on the guest.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

You're just giving your car some motivation. Like, come on, you can do it.

SPEAKER_02 5:48

We think we could, we think we could. Basically, it's not even an old car, but the two of us are just groaning and my, you know, and I noticed I'm doing it. I'm like, why am I groaning? As I'm going uphill, I'm sitting.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

Because hills are hard, even if you're just sitting, they're hard.

SPEAKER_02 6:06

I was in the Flintstone car. I'm sitting like my car is a 2023 and I'm just going uphill like this is gonna be a tough one, you know.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

I always think about the people who live in San Francisco. I'm like, oh my god, your gas, like you must go through gas, like whoa. Forget it. I couldn't, and then walking, uh, forget it. Yeah, no, that's one place I would love to visit, but I will not be visiting. Because leaning the hills, I'm like, no, I couldn't do it.

SPEAKER_02 6:34

It'd be like that. You ever see that video that 911 called? 911, I'm dead. I think I'm dead. I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. No way. No, I I got ambitious the other day and I bought like um like running shoes. My husband's like, what are we doing with these? I was like, I'm gonna go exercise. They're still collecting dust in the box in the garage. She's like, Why aren't we doing this? I was like, it's all hills and like, but it's downhill. Well, my somehow it's up and down and back, and I can't. So I was like, there's a bear in the neighborhood, you know, I can't outrun it. We're trying to get back home tonight. He's like, So what are we gonna do for exercise? I was like, I'm gonna watch an exercise video and critique their form.

SPEAKER_04 7:17

So while you eat chips, so at least you're doing right.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

Yeah, you're getting some yes, I see that happening. Yeah. Oh, and then you know it's marshmallows for me, like just a big bag. Like I get one big Ziploc bag and I take two bags of marshmallows and I put it in.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

I'm just I co-sign that.

SPEAKER_02 7:35

Yeah, I think that works. That can be.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

You were such a you weren't Italian vibe. I'm just like I I try.

SPEAKER_02 7:42

It's you know, I I write about such like heavy, depressing topics, and I think people must think that behind the scenes I'm all like maudlin. I'm like, I'm not. I'm really just like an idiot. And I I am, and I sit there with like I'll get like um like I'm an ice cream, you know, aficionado. And I'm like, all right, but I'm gonna put a banana in it. So this way I'm at least I'm being healthy, even though the banana is completely overrun with ice cream and marshmallows and you know, peanut MMs and all kinds of disgusting things.

SPEAKER_04 8:10

Yeah. Oh, that's that's nice. Yesterday I ate an entire tub of salsa by myself, and my husband is like, you realize you ate that whole thing all by yourself. And I was like, Well, it's fruits and vegetables, so it's it's tomatoes, peppers.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

That's good for you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 8:26

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 8:27

Onions, lime. That's like how I feel about secret popcorn. I'm getting in my that's my vegetable group, popcorn.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Exactly. Popcorn. And if it's air pops, even better. It's it's healthy.

SPEAKER_02 9:05

No, mine's in the bag with the fat all stuck in there, not even drained into another container to remove some of the grease. No.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

You're a purist, and I respect that.

unknown 9:14

I am. I am.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

Never forget. This is going back, oh my god, so long ago. I I had this desk job. This was before I I was I used to be a special education teacher, and I was um I was a teacher for 10 years, and then I left when I had my son, and um, then I started writing. But before that, I had this desk job, and I'll never forget it. We were so slow one day, and the boss was like, if you guys want to watch Netflix, like nobody cares. So I was like, I can get behind this, you know. So I'm like slumped low in the chair, and I I forget whatever I was eating, a bag of something, and it must have been like right up to my face because my coworker comes in and he goes, Do you have like a feed bag around your neck? I'm just like, no, it's just I can just get more in quicker.

SPEAKER_04 9:58

I'm just gonna get that momentum and no crumbs and and and and it's no crumbs.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

I was being considerate. You didn't have to clean up after me.

SPEAKER_04 10:06

I was just right in just shoveling it in. That's like how I eat a bed.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

Yeah, yeah. Oh my god, stop it. My husband gets so mad because I eat in bed.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

Oh wait, are we not supposed to eat in bed? Are there other places to eat besides bed? I didn't know.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

I could eat all my meals in bed. That's like my comfort zone, my nest. You know, my nest of crumbs. I don't care.

SPEAKER_04 10:29

So the trick is just eat it over the blanket like your comforter because shake it, shake it out. And then the dog picks up the crumbs crumble on the floor. It's it's you know, it's its own ecosystem.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

I agree too. I mean close to me because um, because we're in a pretty wooded area, and he's like, we're gonna get like spiders. And I'm like, I have a solution for that. I put Vaseline around the legs of the bed, and then they can't, you know, come in. They can, I guess, descend, but they can't come up, and then I can just be disgusting.

SPEAKER_04 11:01

I think we have just elevated the life hacks, right? Because I am not in a wooded area, and we still get spiders, which a spider was the cause of my broken ankle a couple of years ago. So I'm about to get some Vaseline.

SPEAKER_00 11:15

I still think that's the funniest story. Not the broken ankle part, but like, oh my god, why would she angle? A spider. And people look at her like I was killing a spider and I like fell.

SPEAKER_03 11:25

Oh no. But the spider died.

SPEAKER_04 11:26

She got the spider. The spider died. Spiders were harmed in the making of his set broken.

SPEAKER_02 11:31

But karma was pretty instant. My son says to me, he goes, So you're putting Vaseline around the face of the bed? He goes, Can't they just like crawl on the ceiling and drop down? And then I was like, Oh no, now I have to sleep with the lights on.

SPEAKER_03 11:44

But it has happened. That's how hold on.

SPEAKER_02 11:49

This is where my brain went. I was like, what about a square of Vaseline?

SPEAKER_03 11:53

I didn't right over me.

SPEAKER_02 11:57

What about just Vaseline on the ceiling? But I I figured that one might might, you know.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

And my favorite my host, what are you doing? But Vaseline on the ceiling. Any reason why? Spider? Yeah. He's like, why don't we just not eat in bed?

SPEAKER_02 12:12

That might be a better idea. And I'm like, not eating bed. That's what is this? This mixed. What is don't be so silly. I know. What is not eating bed? That's not even that wasn't even up for discussion.

SPEAKER_04 12:22

No. Might as well just say stop breathing.

SPEAKER_02 12:25

Yeah, thank you. I love but that's like my thing though. Like, you know, you work all day and you're busy, and obviously, like the kind of writing I do, it's it's stressful, you know. And um, especially because I I had said, you know, I donate everything I make 100% goes to charity. So then you work with these charity organizations and you hear the stories and they're heartbreaking, so many of them. So you really are on. I mean, and the work they do is wonderful, and you know the things that you're doing matter, but you know, at the end of the day, it it is heavy. They're heavy conversations. And that's my thing. I want to be in bed, I want to watch something funny or goofy or silly, I want to eat whatever my my snack is. It's like that's like how I unwind, you know. A lot of people exercise to unwind. I think about exercising, I exercise in my brain.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

I bought your brain is fully muscular and on point.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

I bought the shoe. I had the intention. My husband's teasing me too because I bought a fanny pack. He's like, What are we doing with this? I was like, This is to hold all my treasures when I run. He's like, Really? That's it. We're fanny pack people now. I was like, We are, they're from my treasures. The fanny pack is also outside with the shoes because running didn't happen. I thought they're they're buddies now. So far, the fanny pack keeps the shoes company, yeah. They're in the garage with the spiders. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

Do you feel like the fanny pack and the shoes talk shit behind about you behind your back? I feel like I'm sure they do.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

Look at this. She bought us for no reason. I'm sure they do. He teaches me too, because he's he's wonderful, but like some of the things that I do, like I got all these overalls, I want to be comfortable when I go out. He's like, overalls now, really. He's like, I can fit so many things in them though. About the pockets.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

It's the truth. I feel like he Ricky Micados you. You're his Lucy. He Ricky Micados you. He's wonderful.

SPEAKER_02 14:12

I gotta tell you, I have the best. I love that. He is the best. He's been my biggest supporter and my biggest champion. And I think um what's so great about our dynamic is that we can kind of like rib each other a little bit. Um, again, what I do is inherently like depressing writing. So you need someone to kind of like love your fanny pack. He's like, I love you, fanny pack and all. And I'm like, Aww. So it's it's wonderful. But um, but I don't know. It's just it's nice. You need a partner, especially when you're in any kind of like creative or entertainment field. Um I I feel like a lot of the time I don't get the luxury of like uh shutting things off at the end of the day, if that makes sense. I ever make the mistake of like googling certain things, like you see a lot of like the nasty parts of this type of job. And um, and don't get me wrong, there's been a ton of positive things, and I've got a wonderful, you know, reader base, but there are you know people who have their comments um and who might not, you know, maybe obviously, you know, they you're putting yourself out there as a creative, and people might not like your your stuff, and that's okay, you know, and I mean um one of the someone that I uh interviewed for my book gave me really good advice, and he was like, if you don't have any critics and nobody's saying anything about what you're doing, then you're not doing it right. Yeah. You want people to feel, you know, good things about your work, bad things about your work, all kinds of things because you're challenging people, you're having people kind of think about what you do. Um, but again, it's all kind of you know difficult and challenging and can be hard to turn it off some days, um, especially being, you know, a non-fiction writer, because you know, you're you're touching on subjects and people who your readers obviously have a strong opinion on. So that's why I'm like, I try to find ways to still stay positive and laugh and have a good time, and that's my fanny pack. He's lucky I didn't buy one that was a neon green.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

So he's gonna be a little bit more than a lot of my head, it was neon pink. I don't know why I got it black. I wanted something that's exactly what I was thinking.

SPEAKER_02 16:10

And I was like, no, now I'm gonna go get one that's like neon and like straight up the 80s, and I'm gonna wear it. I'm gonna make him take me out to dinner in it, and I'm gonna put on wigwams, I'm gonna wear a headband and sweatpants. We're gonna do it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

I actually got a fanny pack, but I wear it di uh across the front, like they do, like the cool kids do. Like, you know, I am now acting like I'm 25, 30. That's fine. And I'm like, I love my I love it. It go, I it's my go-to day off bag. Really? It has seven pockets, it has seven different zippers, and everything fits in it the way it's supposed to fit, and it's not funky.

SPEAKER_05 16:47

I love it.

SPEAKER_02 16:48

See, you know my fears with that. I have a this is just me because I'm like the world's clumsiest person. I'd be afraid that if it was like that, I would it would like jump up and like hit me in the head and it would have like my phone in it and probably like, yeah. It's just a thing.

SPEAKER_00 17:02

Now I have to worry about that because clutz level, I'm like a 10 out of 10 with clutz level. I have yet to do that. But soon I will let you know when it happened. We just look forward to, right? We hit our face ourselves in the face with a fanny pan. Yeah, I look at she's I look forward to as do I, honestly. I actually can't wait till it happens now.

SPEAKER_02 17:20

Well that even like um I think I I mean I can't confirm or deny if I broke my toe. I don't know, I didn't go to the doctor, but I vacuum my foot. I vacuumed my foot with my husband watching. He's like, Did you just vacuum your foot? I was like, Yeah, I think I just broke it. I think I broke my toe. He's like, How did you vacuum your foot? I was like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

A little too aggressive around the corner, and that's so I feel like a fanny pack would probably Yeah. Well, buddy tape it because they're not gonna do anything by buddy tape it anyway. So you're good. That's how I feel.

SPEAKER_02 17:49

He's like vacuumed your foot.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

I was like, I really vacuumed my foot. So, but you know, I mean well. So I kind of I feel like you're my spirit person at this moment. I feel connected, I feel oddly connected to you. How many times I sprained? I actually sprained the same ankle twice on the same step at the same subway station in New York. Yeah, that's something I would do. My most like, did you not know that was a step there? I was like, it wasn't, it came out of nowhere and I missed it. I swear there wasn't a step there before.

SPEAKER_02 18:18

If you do it a third time, know that I'll be like in your brain somewhere going, You got this, you got this. I know.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

I kind of now I kind of need to do that now. Lisa, I'm on my way to come see you. Okay, what station was it? It was the one on 90, it was the ace, it was a C line on 96th Street.

SPEAKER_04 18:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

I live in Wisconsin now, so I'm gonna have to take a plane just to do that.

SPEAKER_02 18:44

Yes, yes. I want to sprain my ankle on this step at this subway, I'll be there soon.

SPEAKER_00 18:48

Yeah. I'll be there on my way, Lisa. Yeah. And just make sure you bring your husband so he can carry me back.

SPEAKER_04 18:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:57

Yeah. Once it's brain, I just do a lot of damage.

SPEAKER_02 19:00

Okay. I know I've done stuff like that. I um I tried cardio kickboxing once and only once, because it was an emergency room visit. And that was it. And they're like, What did you do? I was like, I don't know. I decided to try and get healthy. I don't care.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

I just that was your first problem. Getting healthy. What were you thinking?

SPEAKER_02 19:19

I don't know. My doctors were like, your cholesterol's really high. You're I'm and I'm actually like a tiny person. They're like, How's your cholesterol so high? I was like, Would you like to see my little Debbie's collection? Like, the same issue. Allow me to show you my snack cake aisle in my you know like, wow, that's right, Full. I was like, Yes, it is. But um, that's right. I'm I'm gonna get my cholesterol under control. I'm gonna go cardio kickboxing. I think I broke my ankle. Never mind.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

I'm just we're not doing this anymore.

SPEAKER_04 19:47

It's the truth. Little Debbie will be there for you.

SPEAKER_00 19:49

So she will always support you.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

She really does. She's my spirit animal because she's constantly in my news feed, which is wonderful. And then I'll be like, Did you see they have a little Debbie's, like a little Debbie's hybrid? It's this and this. And it's like, would you like me to add that to the shop right order? Yes, please. So I could write a book just on that, though, honestly.

SPEAKER_03 20:08

Why co-sign that?

SPEAKER_02 20:11

Right? Just rank little Debbie's foods. It's the best. It's like it's like good comfort food. And then, like, especially like the oatmeal cream pies, because it's got oatmeal.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

It's healthy.

SPEAKER_04 20:21

Yeah. I was so upset when they stopped being like a quarter in the bodegas. Because you will go in there with a dollar and be like, I got snacks for all day. Yeah. Not anymore. How much are they now? Oh, I don't know, but they're not a quarter.

SPEAKER_02 20:36

It's like three bucks, I think, for the box. You get I don't know how many are in there. I know it takes me two days to eat them. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 20:41

And I know they're smaller now. They are everything is smaller.

SPEAKER_02 20:46

And that's sad. It is. And I do eat some healthy stuff. I'm making it sound like I like if you cut me, I would only bleed like little Debbie's. Although probably, I don't know. There's nothing wrong with that. That's how I feel. And there's cream in the middle, so you're getting your dairy group, or at least your hydrogen. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

She said your oil group.

unknown 21:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

It's your hydro hydrogenated oil group. It's on the food chart. You just have to like hunt for it. It's there.

SPEAKER_04 21:08

It's there.

SPEAKER_02 21:09

It's right next to the poor life choices little there. On the right.

SPEAKER_04 21:16

I think I spend too much time in that food group.

SPEAKER_02 21:20

I do. I had a banana before. I shared it with my dog because dogs can have a little bit of banana in moderation. So I'm like, all right, buddy, we're gonna do this. Me and you. We're gonna get we're gonna get some fruit in today. So I had my banana and now I'm free to eat my little dubbies later because I did a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

So I have this thing, and I really think it's just pesticides. But avocados, my I love avocados. It tried to kill me one day. I was like, oh wait, I can't. Oh, it's itching. Okay, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 21:45

No.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

Oh wait, I can't breathe. Maybe I should pop in a benadril and hope I don't die. Because no one's gonna find me.

SPEAKER_04 21:53

Um she's the same way with bananas and avocados.

SPEAKER_00 21:57

But then yesterday I had my daughter had cut them some watermelon, so I popped some in my mouth and I went home. Same thing. And I'm sorry, I'm like, oh wait, I can't breathe. This is might not be a good thing. So I really think it's the pesticides that like what's the odds I'm a bit I'm allergic to every fruit in order to man. It's definitely the pesticides, and I might be.

SPEAKER_04 22:17

You had that issue when when we were at Podfest.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

At Podfest, and I was like, What the fuck?

SPEAKER_04 22:23

We were trying to be on the cheap, and we had A mini fridge in our room, and we bought this big tub of fruit because we're like, cool.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

And it was good fruit, like it was ripe, like it was a good bowl.

SPEAKER_04 22:33

Yeah, it's healthy, it's it's easy, it's it's like food, food.

SPEAKER_03 22:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:38

And she started eating it and was like, I can't keep eating this. I'm getting itchy, and now I have this giant tub of fruit. And she's like, Okay, well, you gotta eat it all. And I'm like, I'm trying. And not just like because of the fruit, like I was coming down with something and I was like absolutely miserable and still trying to eat this fruit because I didn't want to waste that fruit. Waiting to go to waste.

SPEAKER_03 23:04

I don't feel good. I got covered because she told me to.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

More fruit. I got this. And it's really bad because it was a ripe bowl. How many times you buy a bowl and it's all ripe? Never happens. It was a really good bowl of fruit. I'm like, fuck.

SPEAKER_02 23:21

I'll do the itchiness. No, you should get an epi pen for something like that, just to have just in case.

SPEAKER_00 23:26

But you know what? Pizza has never given me any allergies. Put out the problem. If brute's the issue, then goodbye. Go do Goodbye. And I do now if I want if I have a craving, like I get my pineapples and my strawberries, I go straight organic and I have no problems. No problem. So it's definitely the pesticides, but I po. I can't be affording to eat healthy when everything costs an arm and a leg. Yeah. Oh my god, I know.

SPEAKER_04 23:50

Expensive as it is.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

I know it's really junk food is I can get a frozen burrito for a dollar still. I know. Right. I know. I want more right now.

SPEAKER_02 23:59

Kind of do too. Now I'm hungry also, and I'm just I've got like like like some sort of like music playing in my head. I'm like, oh, there's little Debbie's upstairs. Imagine me and you. I you know what I mean? I think I'm like a cartoon some days in like person form.

SPEAKER_04 24:15

So Oh, we can hang out for sure. Yeah. Yeah. My husband would be like, wait, which one of them is my wife?

SPEAKER_02 24:23

And I I appreciate this because I usually when I do um like any kind of podcast or interview, I never get the opportunity to just kind of like be myself. Like I said, people kind of like they gravitate towards like anything like Kurt Cobain related or the music writing, and it's always like super heavy topics because I do um because my writing is for suicide awareness and prevention, and it's always like it's just kind of like you get like typecast, I think. You know what I mean? Like every question is focused on that. And I'm like, no, and that's and that's why I did this. And I'm like, it's it's and it's what I obviously want to talk about too. I'm like, but I think it's also important for people to know like the why behind it and the person behind it. I'm just like a goofball, like I don't take myself seriously. I take my writing seriously, but I don't take me seriously, you know?

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Like I think you have to have to laugh in life, you know. And I think that's one of the, I don't want to say problems, but I think it's one of the tangents Lisa and I really fall into with guests that we get so t walk, so worked up and talking about the person, we forget that they want to talk about something else. And they're like, wait, we've been we've been doing this for an hour and a half. Let's talk about the whole reason you want to talk to us.

SPEAKER_04 25:31

I mean, we really are the little Debbie's, that's it.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

Okay, that's fine.

SPEAKER_04 25:35

We enjoy getting to know the person behind the work because that's your authenticity is is what makes the work relevant.

SPEAKER_02 25:47

Relevant, right? Thank you. You're welcome. I appreciate that. I um for me, I came into all this armed with a lot of snack cakes. Like I didn't know what it's the truth, and I think part of the reason, and I joke a lot about like the the junk food, a lot of it's like stress eating because you can't really like when you start doing something like this, you don't really know what you're getting into until you're already done and it's dusted, and you've got like a publishing deal under your belt, and then you're like, wow, that was a crazy four years. You know what I mean? Like for me, it all started during the pandemic. Uh, we had moved and I was out one day with my son, and we came home, and uh, my neighbor across the street, he's black, and this is the this is like the opening story in my book, but um, he's a young guy and he's uh he's blasting Nirvana, and like the old lady in me is like, can I still listen to this? Like he's like, Yeah, grandma, go take a nap. You know, no, he's so sweet, my neighbor. And um, and he's listening to Nirvana, and I went inside and I I think I was like baking cookies with my son, and I was listening a little bit to Nirvana. And I I don't know if it like tripped some algorithm like on my phone or whatever, but it was like all these things about Kirk Cobain kept popping up. And you know, everything we read about him in the media is just very like downtrodden, you know. That that 27 club, which is I just feel like it reduces people to their their final their final moments, you know. And I hadn't read anything about him at all. I didn't know anything about him. My whole connection to him is we have um a lot of shared friends, and that all came because of this, this whole process. But basically, um I was like, I'm that's it, I'm writing a different kind of book, you know. And I hadn't read anything about him. Like I said, all my everything I know about him has come from my personal experience with his friends or you know, former bandmates or other members of like uh, you know, the Seattle music scene. Just wonderful, wonderful people. I have nothing but nice things to say about everyone who's part of this. And um, it all came because in in 2017, we lost a family member, Walter, to suicide. And he was a veteran marine. And he was he was just phenomenal and credible. And my whole thought process had been had Walter been famous, I wouldn't want him remembered for his final moments. Because when I think about him, I mean, obviously it's upsetting to to think about him being gone, but I think about how funny he was and how charismatic. And I think about that loss, like my son doesn't get to meet him, you know what I mean? Like all these things. And I was like, we need to, we need to do something. We need to start reframing. Um, not even necessarily like the way we would look at like a celebrity, but what I think about Kurt Cobain is being, you know, this extremely well-known, you know, suicide of the 20th century, basically. And to me, I just felt like, you know, my son's gonna grow up one day to maybe listen to his music, or how many impressionable young people still listen to his music? And I was like, why is the narrative focused on, you know, drug use? Why is it focused on suicide? Like, why are we not having open and honest discussions about mental health and suicide? Um, and that was really the impetus for the whole project. And I just kind of, you know, I told my husband what I was gonna do, and he was like, go for it. I support you. And I didn't think anything would ever come of it. So to me, when I I look at it now, it's it's weird, it's wild, it's it's like strange, but it's it's good strange. Um I reached out and I always like to tell people this because my whole goal is I want uh any other creative or an author, an art anybody to feel empowered, not inspired, because then I feel like it's kind of like reduces an experience to yay me. But I want people to feel empowered to advocate for themselves and their work. And if you want to do something, do it. Um, so I had a literary agent and it wasn't really working out. I I worked with a couple, and the thing I noticed immediately with literary agents, this is just my experience, they had a very specific book in mind. And it to me felt a little derivative. It was kind of like similar to stuff you might already read or articles you might see. It leaned hard into that tragic version of him. And I was like, I'm not then no, then I don't, then I'm not gonna work with the oh, I see the kitty cat now. I see the kitty cat. Now I'm like, where's my kitty cat? I know he's um but I just I decided to go at things on my own because I didn't want anybody really telling me how I should write my book. You know what I mean? I wasn't really super concerned if it got a traditional publishing deal. Um, you know, self-publishing is wonderful. Some of the best books are self-published. And for me, I was more concerned with telling my story openly and and honestly. And I made like a couple calls to some, you know, musicians out in the Seattle scene and spoke with one person, and that led to, oh, call this person. And then next thing I knew, I had a 500-page book. I secured two book deals on it. It's it's been such a blessing because the people that I worked with were just fantastic. And um, you know, the thing too, uh, especially about the Seattle music scene, is they are a lot of people are very hesitant to do interviews now because their words have really been exploited over the years or sensationalized. Um, and me, I have no journalism background. So I kind of I didn't have a a script to go off of. And I was like, well, how about this? You can just see the book, you can edit your chapter, you can have creative control over it. And that put a lot of people's minds at ease. I was like, I'm not here to twist your words or do anything. I was like, I'm here to just tell a story from a different vantage point. And I was like, I didn't really get into Kurt's death in the book or anything. I didn't want to, you know, really get into the substance uh, you know, abuse, not because he didn't uh battle addiction, but because it's not the only part of his story. You know, there was a man who was a fierce champion of the marginalized who, you know, he he was a gay rights advocate. He he was wonderful. And that was the version of him that I wanted to write about and the version of him that I learned about. And now it's been, you know, four years since I started this. Um, some of my best friends I met from writing this book, you know what I mean? Wonderful, wonderful people. Um, and I feel really grateful to have the entire experience. Again, you know, when you're writing something that's a little bit more depressing or heavy, it's nice to um have a lot of little debies to fall back on at nice.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

So and chocolate covered Oreos.

SPEAKER_02 32:17

I was like, Oh my god, yes, yes, yes. I started making my own Reese's peanut butter cups too. It's like peanut butter, confectioner sugar, and graham cracker, and it yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:30

Oh now it wants. Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_04 32:34

When when your book tour comes down by my way, I'm going to expect some of those homemade uh peanut butter cups.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

I'll fly in for that too. I'll fly, I'll fly wherever you need me to fly.

SPEAKER_04 32:43

You'll see, Kelly, Kelly, you're you're supposed to do a QA. Stop eating. What all are you eating? You can't you're gonna see me showing up like this. That works for me.

SPEAKER_02 32:54

I'll just keep taking the candy out of my pockets.

SPEAKER_00 32:58

We're all wearing overalls with pockets. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 33:02

Overalls are underrated.

SPEAKER_04 33:04

And I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 33:07

Yes. I'm actually wearing overalls now, but I didn't want to look silly on camera, so I took this. Now I feel like I'm in a safe space and I can do this.

SPEAKER_00 33:17

Absolutely freaking weird.

SPEAKER_02 33:18

Now I'm my true self. So I have to say, these are great. These are great for anybody who doesn't like shorts. I'm not a shorts person. I'm not trying to blind people. I don't get much sun. I try shorts, I know better. Um, I got these on Amazon. They're like a cotton linen blend and they're great. And they have I love that. Yeah, and they're light enough for summer and and you can cuff them and they're amazing. I like them.

SPEAKER_04 33:43

They're like them like themselves. I'm I'm jealous I'm not wearing that now.

SPEAKER_00 33:48

I was thinking about yesterday. I took my grandkid, well, one of my grandsons to the park, and I was like, and this topic would flow into it. And I was like, I need a grown-up park, like where the swings are higher. Yes, the slides are a little bit wider. Hello. Um, I want a grown-up park, and then instead of the ice cream, no, wait, there needs to be an ice cream truck too, but I also would be my taco truck and a margarita truck along with ice cream truck and then candy. Let's crowdfund this park. I I think we should do like a grown-up park park. I love that. If you build a grown-up park, I'll do the cupcakes. Okay, cupcakes and candy.

SPEAKER_04 34:27

I make boozy cupcakes.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

Oh, and then we'll give out everyone they can have like an old like an apron overall to wear to stash their candy in while they're playing.

SPEAKER_02 34:34

I love it. If you do grown-up park, I'll be the first one to trip in full. First one to eat concrete. I'll be there.

SPEAKER_00 34:43

I know it might be a toss up between you and I.

SPEAKER_02 34:46

We'll go down together. We'll drag each other down together. You go down, I'd like to.

SPEAKER_04 34:51

The party will continue on the floor.

SPEAKER_02 34:53

Yeah. One team, one trip. I took my son to the park yesterday and he's like, Wanna go on the swings with me? And I I went on and I I they're just like narrow and they're supposed to and I like slipped right out. I was like, come on. You know, he's like, Wanna go down the slide? I'm like, Do you want to have to get the fire department? Don't slide, especially the enclosed ones. No.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

No, oh my god, yeah, I'm not doing that. I did the monkey bars.

SPEAKER_02 35:21

No.

SPEAKER_00 35:21

Oh, the monkey bars for I I did the monkey bars and I think I I broke a muscle and pulled a button.

SPEAKER_02 35:26

Oh no. Um, I was gonna say I couldn't do it. Hell, I couldn't do it. No, never did it again. I had to.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

I was I was pushed by a by a five-year-old. I'm like, I kind of had to. I'm not gonna get it.

SPEAKER_03 35:42

Oh yeah, they're the worst with peer pressure.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

Oh my god.

unknown 35:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:49

So we're like aggressive Pokemon Go players. So I love my Pokemon Go. Yeah. I'm like terrible at it. I'm objectively terrible in any kind of game like that. But I have fun losing.

SPEAKER_00 36:00

But that's all that matters.

SPEAKER_02 36:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

Only games I play the ones I could play in bed on my phone. I used to be like that with bingo. I thought that was going somewhere else.

SPEAKER_05 36:10

Oh, no, no, I didn't mean that.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

But now that you mentioned it, that would be fun too. But that's but my first thing is this like on the phone, and yeah, that's Yeah, I just associate bed with food, so that's just one of my Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:24

Like he doesn't eat now?

SPEAKER_02 36:26

Yeah, yeah. My husband was like, what is that? I was like, he's like, isn't an MM in the bed? Uh maybe, I don't know. So it's not not anymore.

SPEAKER_04 36:37

The other night I found a planetin chip in my bed and I was like, oh whoops.

SPEAKER_02 36:41

Yeah. I find pretzels, all kinds of stuff. A pet party, just nothing but food though. I mean, you know, what are you gonna do?

SPEAKER_04 36:51

I mean, just like if I turn this a little bit, you're gonna see the box of cheese that's on my night's name.

SPEAKER_02 36:57

I just can't wait. I see it. Hold on. Is it extra toasty?

SPEAKER_04 37:01

Bacon eater. Oh, I didn't even know that was a thing.

SPEAKER_02 37:05

I have to go. I have to go to the store.

SPEAKER_00 37:07

We will return later with part two of this episode. I know what my afternoon is gonna be now. Get out of here, bacon. Are you serious? Oh, I love Cietes. I need that. I love Cietes great. I love them.

SPEAKER_04 37:20

They're empty.

SPEAKER_00 37:21

They're empty. That's the way it's gonna be though. I just she always has snacks on next to her bed. Oh, yeah, no. So when I sleep over, I don't get hungry.

SPEAKER_04 37:29

Uh-huh. Right there, there's like literally a case of plantain chips.

SPEAKER_02 37:32

See, I love that. My friend used to do that. She used to always keep the um the these are such a waste in my opinion. The little hundred calorie snack packs. And I was like, Can I? I eat like six of them. Thank you. Like, did you just why are there bags all around your head? Like, because there's like three chips in it.

SPEAKER_04 37:48

It's a tease.

SPEAKER_02 37:48

It's burning more calories trying to get the bag open.

SPEAKER_04 37:52

Am I right? Well, maybe that's the trick, right? You could just keep eating them because trying to open them is is I think that's why people stop at a hundred calories.

SPEAKER_02 38:01

They get annoyed. What is this thing? Like crazy. You know, I mean up at three in the morning looking for scissors. So well, I'm a rat. I get into things. I will. I don't care. I'll hold tearing off my teeth.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

I don't care. I don't care. I need to get to whatever I need to get to, and I don't have time.

SPEAKER_02 38:19

It's the truth. The other day, because I've been getting a lot of like the airhead candies. It's been like my thing lately. And then another day I was like, I think I ate a filling. Like I actually had to get my dentist. I was like, I think I took out a filling in one of the airheads. It's the truth. Yeah. He's like, all right, let's do it.

SPEAKER_04 38:36

These airheads and sour straws are my my candy bedtime go-to's.

SPEAKER_02 38:43

Those are good. But you have the sugar everywhere then, right? From the sour straws?

SPEAKER_04 38:46

That's the pro well, yeah. But if you buy it in the big tub is also uh right there, that is an empty sour straw tub. So if you eat it over the tub, then the sugar just goes in. So that's the truth.

SPEAKER_02 39:03

It's a truth how it works. We're um a cloth napkin house because I'll just go through too many paper ones, so I like the cloth napkins. And that's what we do. You just you tuck it in right here.

unknown 39:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:13

It's the same thing, but I like like those little itty bitty mini reesees, like the teensy tiny ones.

SPEAKER_00 39:18

You can just do I love them because then that wrap and I could just That's what I said. The the hand to mouth ratio, fast Yes, yes. I need to keep a bag in my car at all times, and a bag in my purse. That way I always can be like, as I'm drop, just pop them in. It's a problem. You are my people. I have met my friends here.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

Yeah, this is true. Who knew? Yeah. Do I want to know? I think you know the answer to that. You already know. The trash can. That's why I love Halloween. I'm the worst with Halloween, though. So he gets we get so many, I mean, like an obscene amount of trick-or-treaters, like a thousand trick-or-treaters, not even hype, not even hyperbole. So like a thousand trick-or-treaters. It's nuts. And um, he goes to Costco and gets like the industrial-sized bags of candy. Uh-huh. And this is again going back to like being a relic and a dinosaur. So I have one of those pram strollers from like when I was a baby. Yeah. So you know that thing is not safe at all. Like one bump and the baby goes flying. And the whole thing's over. Yeah. The whole thing falls. It's it's this kind of like lightly slides into like the the rolling part. I don't know what it's called. You know what I mean? Like you sneeze and the thing falls apart. Um, well, I said to my husband, and it's creepy and it's old looking. And I was like, oh, we should give, you know, candy out in it for Halloween, and the kids get a kick out of it. And my husband loves it. We put like a little, um, I'm sorry, my son loves that. We put a little clown in it. So he goes to Costco and he gets like the huge bags and he dumps them all in. And before like the the trick-or-treaters come, my son and I take like our little Halloween bag and we go through and we just pick everything that we want and we we put in all the good stuff. So it's the nice thing. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 41:03

I love well, I don't get every year it's less and less trick-or-treaters. Like I dress up, I have my Porsche Light on, I have my huge ass cauldron of candy, and I always I only get the good candy. There's none of that BS cheap candy for me. I get the good stuff. Like the Hershey, right? Yes. And at the end of the night, I I tell the teenager that they listen, you guys come back at the end, because it it's like five to seven. I come back at the end, and whatever I have left, you guys can have more. They come back. I still have a full cauldron of candy that I'm in my bed like every night. You're a better woman than me. For a month. It's still but it's still a whole bunch of candy left, and I'm eating it for a month. It's amazing. I'm not mad at it.

SPEAKER_02 41:48

I'm not either. I I love that. And my favorite is the take five. So I'm like hoarding them. I know. I know, right?

SPEAKER_04 41:56

I don't think I've ever had one.

SPEAKER_02 41:57

Oh my god. What's in it? What is it? The chocolate, pretzel, peanut butter, caramel. Amazing. It's so good. And they're like they're like this big.

SPEAKER_00 42:06

So they're just like little vitamins, little chocolate vitamins. Chocolate vitamins. I want to start calling them that chocolate vitamins. I love washamacaulets. And I remember when they took them, when they discontinued that, I was so sad. And my mother goes, Oh, I was at the store and I saw Washamaca. I'm like, cool. She said, No, no, no, the candy bar. I'm like, Yes.

SPEAKER_02 42:27

They have them on Amazon. Amazon in bulk. Yeah. I know that.

SPEAKER_00 42:33

I love that you know that.

SPEAKER_02 42:35

Hold on. I should tell you why I know that though.

SPEAKER_00 42:37

Yeah, I need to know this the backstory.

SPEAKER_02 42:39

I was gonna buy them for the book signing events because um Kirk Cobain had spray painted, ain't got no whatchamacallit. Like I forget what it was exactly. It was like something along the lines of that. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 42:51

And I was like, Oh, yeah, now that you mentioned chocolate vitamins, I also buy my bed.

SPEAKER_02 42:57

So good. Those are the best. They are so good. I don't know what's in them. It's like peanut butter, just kind of caramel.

SPEAKER_00 43:06

And caramel. Peanut butter over a thing of caramel. That's all I need. Salty and sweet. It's healthy. It's handy. So the salty.

SPEAKER_02 43:14

And I like to make my own chocolate with my son too. We have the little molds, and we just take like whatever kind of chocolate we want. We melt it and you put it in. And then we'll take like little caramels, put that in, but you can put a little sea salt on if you want. So good. We it's so funny. We made candy for my mom for Mother's Day, and um we ate it all. But the thought was there. We we made more. Most of them too. So we tried though, and like the really gross thing is it wasn't even like, oh, it was just like in the fridge for a couple. No, it was like we finished making it. We were just ate them.

SPEAKER_03 43:50

Like, you know what?

SPEAKER_02 43:51

Does grandma really want this? Probably not.

SPEAKER_01 43:54

Does grandma really know that we made this? No. Let's not tell grandma, let's go watch TV and so I cut you off before with my payday.

SPEAKER_04 44:02

But you were saying you were um Oh yeah, I heard the story.

SPEAKER_00 44:06

Oh yeah, the what you mcall it, the whole point of what you mcall it's oh that whole point. Why do you know there's a book? She Lisa missed it.

SPEAKER_02 44:12

Oh, oh, because um because Kurt Cobain had spray painted something. I can't remember if it was like ain't got no what you mall it or ain't got no who's it, whatchamacallit, but I was like, oh, I should put whatchemacallets out. But um I wasn't sure if I I should have I was actually on I think it was like Reddit, which is great for information and also like terrifying sometimes. But um I was trying to see what other authors do at their different events. Like, are you supposed to put like like food out? Like, is that a bad idea because of food allergies and things like that? So I wasn't really sure.

SPEAKER_04 44:43

I mean, I would say, and I'm no lawyer, but I would say that if there's a connection, definitely, and as long as they're racked. Right. Like it's like uh Agnes and I were just talking about this last week. Like when when they do like the medical commercials, and it's like, oh, and this contains XYZ, and then they're like, but if you're allergic to XYZ, please don't take this. And it's like I feel like people should know what they're allergic to. And if you're allergic, you don't need a reminder, then like don't order an egg.

SPEAKER_02 45:14

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So and wrapped is good because it's got the ingredients right there.

SPEAKER_04 45:19

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 45:19

No one's gonna get a chance to eat any candy I bring anyway.

SPEAKER_00 45:22

I'm just because it's not gonna make it to the venue, and I support that.

SPEAKER_02 45:26

Most of the places are like an hour from me anyway. Like, ma'am, you have like food all over your face. Do we need to know something? Yeah, I ate in my car. What do you want for me?

SPEAKER_00 45:34

I tell people all the time I go to this bakery, I love this bakery where I live, and they're like, Do you need it in a bag? You want me to sit? I'm like, I'm going to eat this in my car like an after school special. No, it's fine. No, you're gonna have to actually call someone that could I probably need help.

SPEAKER_02 45:48

I it's a bag, don't dirty a plate, put it right in my hand.

SPEAKER_00 45:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:52

Well, my husband will joke because uh two things, I'm not really allowed to go food shopping anymore. I send you to the food store. He's like, for like actual food. He goes, and somehow you come back with cookies and hot wheel cars. He's like, I didn't even know they sold Hot Wheel cars, but okay.

SPEAKER_00 46:09

Oh yeah, yeah. They most yeah. Yes, they do. My son has to be. They do, they do. I always forget mine. Lisa reminds me, but it is time for your silly icebreaker question. Oh, I'm here for it. Okay. So if animals had human arms, which animal do you think will rock them the best?

SPEAKER_02 46:33

Probably my dog, Jack. Well, it's the truth. He's a little beagle next. He's a rescue we got from um, they're called Oscar Animal Rescue. They're wonderful. And um, people should consider donating to them because they actually had a fire. It was really terrible, and they they lost so much, and they actually lost six dogs too. We were grateful that we got our dog right before. Um, but Jack is he's this little beagle Jack Russell mix, and he's like out of all the dogs I've ever had, he's like a person. And he just sits like at a chair at the table now. Like if I'm typing and he's in his chair. And I feel like Jack would benefit from arms because I think Jack just wants to put his arms up, and I feel like he also gets into like a lot of mischief. I feel like he would do this a lot. You know what I mean? Like I love that. I feel like Jack, my dog, would benefit from arms. The thing, because he's into stuff all the time, and we always catch him red-handed. Like, we had to go out and get a laundry hamper with a zipper because Jack gets into the hamper and then underwear go missing, and then you find it under the bed, and you're like, really? That's gross. So but he's into everything. Yeah, if I fetish, okay. I could picture him with arms, just getting into more trouble.

SPEAKER_03 47:46

Yeah, probably.

unknown 47:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:48

So now I need to see a picture of Jack's, and then I'm gonna like you should edit, like, put like Photoshop hand human hands on him.

SPEAKER_02 47:54

Can I matter if I can I can hold it up to the screen? I have a picture of him the other day sitting at the kitchen table, and he's looking at me like, Can I help you, mother? I have here we go. Hold on. I'm gonna hold it up. Can you you see the picture of him? Oh my god, yes, yes, yes, yeah, just like.

SPEAKER_00 48:15

But excuse me, I'm working to it.

SPEAKER_02 48:18

Jack, hard at work, get that money, honey. That's him.

SPEAKER_00 48:20

That's I love that. Yeah, I could tell you see him with the human arms. Yep. Little ones.

SPEAKER_02 48:24

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that I could see that. Just he's always like jumping on and he's a little guy too. And he's so sweet and he's so good. I know, he was so good. We had another rescue and we lost her in October. It was terrible, it was so sudden. And um, I I didn't know what to do. You never know what to do. Like, when when do you go and get you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 48:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:45

And um, we were just going to see the puppies. Nah. It's never just going to see the puppies because then you see how many need homes. And we saw Jack and we're like, okay, that's it. Jack's coming home. And Jack has the biggest personality. He has to watch you all, it doesn't matter what you're doing. He's like up in your business. Like, always. He comes in, like, you can't go to the bathroom in the house. Jack has to sit and stare. I'm like, turn around, privacy, please. Like, he doesn't care. Jack's 24-7. Jack wants to know what you're doing. Jack's got an opinion on it too.

SPEAKER_00 49:15

So I love Jack's. Jack's is my kind of he's my kind of puppy baby for all love.

SPEAKER_02 49:20

He's vocal. He's got that kind of beagle vocalness where we're like, what are you doing? And he goes, Oh, we're root.

SPEAKER_00 49:26

Like, but don't why do you want to know what I'm doing? What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_02 49:30

That's what he does. He talks, he does it with my husband. My husband's like, Doug, talk back. And he's like, he's uh he's and it's it's so funny. So this is so I'll tell you, um, I'll tell you too something that's like it doesn't look like readers won't notice it in the book, but I'll I'll tell you it. It's like a not an Easter egg, but um, so in the back, I have an acknowledgments page, and um it says, Mom and dad, thank you, I love you, and then it says Jack, thank you, I love you. And my stepdad's name is Jack. And I said to my mom, I was like, No, mom and dad are you and my stepdad. I was like, Jack is for the dog.

SPEAKER_03 50:05

Yes. I knew that.

SPEAKER_00 50:08

I thank my dog and my book. Yeah, of course. Jack is a very good boy, deserves it. He was a co-writer. Like he was a co-writer, he was there.

SPEAKER_02 50:15

This is true. It um the book first came out in February 2025 with a different publisher, and it was out for three months, and um, and then I wound up um I never know how to say it, like selling it, signing it, signing on with a different publisher in New York City. So it's coming back out uh this September um with uh Skyhorse Publishing and then Simon Schuster is distributing it. I feel like I hit the jackpot. Um and Skyhorse is amazing. And for the last year, it's so it's it's the same book, but it's been heavily edited. So it's different. I've got like a couple extra little things in it, a couple maybe like quotes from some other people. Um, and it's edited in the sense that when it first came out, I didn't really know what to expect with the release and how people would respond to it. And this time, since it's already been out, I kind of think I amended maybe how I spoke a little bit to kind of reflect on my experience with the whole thing. So when it first came out, um I took my first royalty check and I bought groceries for the Aberdeen Food Bank because uh Kurt Cobain was from Aberdeen, Washington. And Nirvana's first drummer, Aaron Burkhard, um, went out with a local um local record store owner and they picked up the groceries and they delivered them to the Aberdeen food bank. So it was really cool to see that come full circle. So I was able to include things like that in the book so people could kind of see like how the journey has been shaped and stuff. Um and we also shortened it a little bit, just kind of trimmed the fat because there's just kind of like a lot of like exposition dump I didn't really need in it. But um, but no, so I I spent the last year really re-editing it and uh it was a lot really from like the fall until now. And that's when we we got Jack. So yeah, Jack's been, yeah, my ride or die sitting next to me on the couch. Does this sound good? What do you think? Do you have any opinion? Just gonna lick yourself no opinion?

SPEAKER_00 52:09

Is that a good basically?

SPEAKER_02 52:12

Basically. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:13

That sounds about right.

SPEAKER_02 52:14

So I'm sorry, that was my long-winded way of saying Jack. Jack would benefit from arms.

SPEAKER_00 52:19

Okay, I love that. Lisa, do you want to answer that one? Do I want to answer it? No. I think you I I just want you really feel. Don't no, don't be shy, Lisa. Don't be subtle. With arms.

SPEAKER_04 52:38

I don't I don't know. I you know what, actually? I think it would maybe be geese, because they're already like mean. Oh, and I and flipping people off. And I think, yeah, I think that they would.

SPEAKER_00 52:51

Then Canadian geese are really assholes. They're real like they're like the asshole of all assholes.

SPEAKER_04 52:56

I guess they're really mean. Yeah, they're mean. So I think that they would just use them like to just do mean people shit. Like flip people off. I love that like while they're biting.

SPEAKER_00 53:09

Yeah. Because someone who did not want to answer, she had a pretty damn good answer. All right.

SPEAKER_02 53:13

Well, what about kangaroos? Because kangaroos are kind of like you know, that was my first thing.

SPEAKER_00 53:19

I think the little army army little brolic and army anyway.

SPEAKER_04 53:23

So that she had real we don't need to give them any more weapons.

SPEAKER_02 53:27

They're scary. You see those videos, and I'm like, this is a real animal.

SPEAKER_04 53:31

Yeah, he looked like he just got out of jail. Like, I feel like I mean he just did time in the yard. Basically, he's out for the baby.

SPEAKER_01 53:40

Yeah, basically. Yeah, I'm getting like yeah, yeah, I couldn't see that.

SPEAKER_02 53:45

No, I don't think I'd want to live on the planet anymore if kangaroos had human arms.

SPEAKER_05 53:49

Oh I got chased.

SPEAKER_02 53:51

No, hold on. I didn't get chased by geese. I set a friend of mine up to get chased by geese. And I okay, hold on. Before I was a bad person, I was in college and um I hit a curb because I'm not the best. And um, and my hubcap like went sailing and it went onto the the grassy knoll at school where all the geese hung out.

SPEAKER_00 54:13

And I was like It's always a grassy knoll, I swear.

SPEAKER_02 54:16

But I was, you know, like like 19 and poor, and I was like, I have $35 for a hubcap. Get out of here. What do I do? Do I, you know, I was like, A, do I spray paint the root, like the whim, the rim, whatever silver. Um, B, do I, you know, ask my mom for $35 and explain that I hit a curb or C, do I make my friend Mike go distract the geese while I get the hubcap? And I'll never forget the vision of him just running across the grass with all these geese and him screaming, Did you get it? Did you get it? And me. And it was back when we still, it was like the flip phones and I couldn't like record it or you know, but it was great. It was really great. So just the visual, those things are those geese are nasty. They really are. Oh god. But yeah, I just remember him racing across the lawn, get your hubcat, you know. Looking back, he probably would have just fronted me the 35 bucks to get the hubcat.

SPEAKER_00 55:09

But this is so much better.

SPEAKER_02 55:10

Right.

SPEAKER_00 55:11

This is so much.

SPEAKER_04 55:12

Well, you have something much better.

SPEAKER_02 55:13

You know he's in therapy somewhere. In that time, when he's a geese, you know.

SPEAKER_00 55:18

But he will be forever like memorialized and Satzzips archives.

SPEAKER_03 55:24

One day. I'm gonna get that bill. You want me for therapy for the last 25 years with poor geese? Okay. Okay, the next book.

SPEAKER_02 55:32

We go to the um, we go to this one rescue zoo a lot, and they just have so many Canadian geese, and I'm like hyper aware of my surroundings at all times. That one looks aggressive. That one looks like it's got a bone to pick, you know.

SPEAKER_00 55:45

And I'm that was that one has a knife in his back and his back weighing or something.

SPEAKER_02 55:50

Like, I think Can I can I out it doesn't matter, they can fly, you know? So always kind of got like things just here, take my offerings, you know. It's like the bag of food for like the animals there and the bag of food for the Canadian games, just go.

SPEAKER_00 56:05

So here's a hamburger. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 56:08

Right, here's Thanksgiving dinner. Please leave me alone.

SPEAKER_02 56:12

Oh my god, that reminds me of that what is that, that episode of The Office where Dwight Oh Dwight Goose.

SPEAKER_03 56:19

Yeah, I don't know why.

SPEAKER_04 56:22

Oh so Dwight brings a goose in for like for the holiday party, and they're all just like Dwight, you can't, you know, you can't do that, and he's just got like the dead goose.

SPEAKER_02 56:35

Yeah. I feel like everything in life can be summed up with like an episode or something from the office.

SPEAKER_04 56:43

And if it's not the office, yes.

SPEAKER_02 56:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 56:46

I I was gonna say friends, but you know lost works.

SPEAKER_00 56:49

I feel like Lisa got our first season of Sassin's Sips, the non-spotlight, the original series, was about Lost. So we did every episode of Lost. Um, I didn't really enjoy it until the middle of the fourth season. Was it five seasons?

SPEAKER_04 57:07

It was six.

SPEAKER_00 57:08

So the middle of season five. I was I started to get into it. Like, all right, it's not so bad.

SPEAKER_04 57:13

Yeah, you look like it.

SPEAKER_00 57:15

Listen, from what I talk to other people, but they're like, yeah, that tracks. I'm like, see, I'm not the only one. So everything comes back to fucking lost. And it's weird.

SPEAKER_02 57:27

My husband never finished it, so we can't talk about it. So instead, um a lot of our I always joke with him. I'm like, I feel like we could just talk in like lines from TV shows and movies, and that would be okay. Yeah. A big one, like one of our favorite movies is Grandma's Boy, and it's like everything is like some oh, you have to see Grandma's Boy, and it's a stoner movie. But I mean, it's so funny, and everything in it is just like there's the the one of the guys in it, his name is JP, and he's he's like out there and he's like, you know, he thinks he's like from the matrix, kind of, and it's like you would if you had middle legs, you know what I mean? Or he was saving like random stuff. I'm I'm no misquoting it. My husband is so good, he remembers these things, and like I remember about of what people say, but it's just funny. It's it's the office, though. You have to see the office, it's so good.

SPEAKER_00 58:15

So that that's one of my go-to shows. That's her go-to. If I'm there, her house, I watch it. Not that I don't enjoy it, I'll watch the episode and I'll enjoy it. It just wasn't a show that I'm like, oh, I have to watch isn't follow. It just wasn't one of my shows.

SPEAKER_02 58:27

I was like that at first because my friend just came over. We had Tuesday night movie night, and he was like, want to get into the office. And I was like, no. And he kept trying, and I was like, it can't. But and then one day I was just like, I'm just gonna sit and watch this. And I was like, this is cool. Who thinks of this stuff?

SPEAKER_04 58:43

You know? Yeah, yeah. I never watched it when it was on uh, you know, um, when it was airing live.

SPEAKER_02 58:51

Yeah, same. It was like after, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:53

And it was after when it was on either Netflix or Hulu or whatever, and and it's like put it on and just sit there quietly. And I'm like, where has this been my whole life? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 59:05

Yes, that was the same. It was when I had this one job, it was like during the recession, um, I had gotten laid off from teaching me and like so many other teachers. And when I was looking, I was had like a stopgap kind of a job and I was tempting. And um, there's nothing to do. You could just watch TV during the day. We were so we had nothing to do. And I was like, all right, let's watch the office. And I was like, this is this applies to every single topic ever. And I said, you know, it's like I'm not even gonna respond with original thoughts anymore. I'm just gonna quote Michael's stuff. Originality. I should tell everybody that my book is really just a bunch of office quotes. It just has Kirk Cobain's picture. I'm just kidding. Very misleading. No, I'm kidding. Wait, can you talk a little bit about your book? That's what she said. What?

SPEAKER_00 59:51

I do that. I actually do that all the time. So I do know I do know office pop culture because yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:58

Well, I have the shirt. So um, Michael, he's doing the the book, or he was writing a book in the one chapter Somehow I Manage. So my husband got me a shirt and it says somehow I manage, but it's more because it's like I'm always like falling and tripping and doing things. On their fifth day, I came home and I had to tell him, he's like, Who was the stranger that gave you a ride home? And I was like, the kind person that knew I needed a ride after they towed my car. And he was like, What? What? What did you drive into? And I was like, the fire hydrant downtown. Oh, five miles an hour. Like I just clipped this thing. So they say no good deed goes unpunished. So um I had made these Easter baskets for this children's advocacy center that I support with my book. They're called Ginny's House. They do wonderful work. And um they're uh I I say downtown like it was three feet from my house. It's not downtown for me, but it there is a downtown where Ginny's house is, and they're right in the middle of this downtown square. And um, it was raining out, and I was delivering like, I don't know, like 15 Easter baskets or something like that, right? So the woman who runs um the department, she's like, just pull up onto the the sidewalk. Like, you know, famous last words for me. Like, no, no, you got it, you got it. I have like a big SUV, you know? And she's like, just be really careful, just look out for the yield sign um that's like behind you. I'm crawling. I'm looking at the yield sign, and I hear boom. And then she goes, and look out for the fire hydrant. And I had just I thought I saw something out of the corner of my eye. I was like, is it a spider? There's no Vaseline down here. Sorry. Um that's me. I distract myself. But um, and I get out and I look, and I had clipped the the nut on like a fire hydrant, and it clipped the door, and I'm driving and I'm going back and forth, and it's just opening up the side of the car like a can opener. You can't make this up. And she was like, Stop trying to move the car. So finally we called the guys up the street at the um at the body shop from them, and uh, they're like, We'll we'll move the car for you before you do any more damage. Uh I mean, like the fire commissioner had to come out to make sure the fire hydrant was fine. The police are out, they're laughing. I'm just they're like, How? I was like, I don't know. Just because it's a day that ends in why, why not? It was fine. No fire hydrants were harmed in the uh can't opening of your car. I can't. I needed two new doors, but um the good news is our rates went up, so good news for somebody anyway. Yeah, oh man. But my son wasn't with me or anything, which is fine. I'm actually a good driver. I was just like, maybe I shouldn't be on sidewalks, or anybody for that matter. So now I park in the space, I'll just carry my things up.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:47

I mean, to be fair, that really wasn't your fault. Because if you would just drive into the space without getting on the sidewalk, then it would have been fine.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:55

Yeah, and I was like, I don't want to pull on the sidewalk. I don't want to do it. I'm not comfortable with this. So, but it was raining and they were trying not to get the Easter baskets ruined. So now I just tell people like, this is who my this is what my car looks like. If you see it, run. My husband drives us everywhere.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:13

He's like, you can just not little by little, you're getting all of your privileges taken away.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:21

Yeah, but I love him. He's wonderful. He's like, I don't want new doors on this car either. This is your that's her plan. That's her massive plan. And genius. Yeah, let's let's not. But I gotta tell you, it's for his blood pressure that I let him drive. Because when I do drive, I see him in the back and I'm like, breathe, breathe, you know. Tell me when we're there, you know. So I know I'm like a little uplady. I'm like real slow, 10 and 2. Or is it I think it's like nine and three now. But no, I got it. I'm good.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:48

Did it change?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:48

I I don't know. I saw it on a I don't I saw it on an episode of Teen Wolf, that terrible MTV show. And I just remember they were like, it's nine and three, it's not ten and two. And I was like, I don't know. I'm getting my information from Teen Wolf.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:00

M TV is fine, it's fine. It's usually right though.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:04

I promise I didn't, yeah, I was gonna say, I was like, I promise I didn't use MTV to research my book for a couple quotes, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:10

That's fine. MTV is very beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:13

Yes, it is. The book is all firsthand research. I was like people to know that too. I'm like, it's not, you're not gonna get like I didn't just sit on Wikipedia. Like I everybody in the book, with the exception of Kurt, because he's you know not here to to speak about these things. Everybody in the book, I um I talked to myself, so I sourced all my own interviews, so I didn't have to rely on MTV to, you know, I didn't have to rely on MTV or the shows on MTV.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:38

Like I swear, I really did talk to these people. I promise.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:43

I did. I did. I I I think one of the things too, and it really made the whole experience so much more so much more emotional, was the people I I worked with on the book who passed away while I was still working on the book. Oh wow. Um yeah. So one was Greg Hawkinson, and I'm very close with his sister Misty, and Kurt lived with them um before he got famous because he had a pretty, you know, tough upbringing, and there was a lot of um, you know, um points of being, you know, unhoused, and he'd stayed with them for for a time. And um Greg was great, and he actually did one of the formal endorsements for the book, and then he he passed away two days right after he endorsed it. So that was that was terrible. Um, but Misty's wonderful. She actually is um a part of the Grace Harbor Conservation District out in Aberdeen, and they preserve and maintain Kurtz Memorial Park in Aberdeen. So I like to try to advocate for them and the work that they do. They do tree plantings. I mean, they're really, really incredible with what they do out there. Um, and then there's uh Steve Albini, who was just such an incredible, you know, human being. He uh produced nirvanas in utero, and um Steve was super busy, and it took us kind of a while to actually formally connect for our our interview. And what was so weird was the timing of our interview. We didn't do this on purpose. We did it on the 30th anniversary of Kurt's passing, and that was like neither of us even acknowledged it because we didn't even didn't click. Yeah, it didn't click, and it was also the day when there was an earthquake in New Jersey. So it was really yes, it was just like really strange, and um I'm so So privileged and blessed that we had gotten to connect because we just kept not like delaying it, but we both got busy and was like, all right, when are we gonna, you know, sit and do this? And um, Steve passed away a month later, almost exactly to the day. And his wife actually founded and runs uh it's called Letters Charity, and they basically um they they raise money and they help to make Christmas happen for these, you know, inner city children, these families, and they're really wonderful at the work they do. And Steve was a big champion of them. And this is again something else um, you know, that I really wanted to drive home in this version of the book was to really talk about the letters charity. And um, so so hopefully somebody will read it and maybe want to, you know, donate to them. And I'm also since 100% of my book, Profits is donated, um, I'll make sure that I send some profits to them too. And and Steve's on, you know, he was so busy and he didn't have to be part of this. And uh, you know, he was. So that's what I mean. Like, although it was, you know, very sad parts of it, you know, bittersweet, I got to meet some incredible people. Um, and I just want to make sure that it's coming full circle and then I'm I'm you know, paying it forward. And that's what I hope like people will do too. And sometimes I think people ask, like, why did you write a book or why did you do this? And I'm like, trust me, it wasn't because I care if anybody knows who I am, and it wasn't to like bolster a career or anything like that. It was just a thing I I felt and feel very passionate about. And um, I I just hope people consider checking it out because I I don't keep anything, it it's donated, and there's some amazing organizations that it goes to. So, you know, and it's and it's it's a piece of history too. There are some people in the book like Steve, and these interviews cannot, they will never be recreated because here to talk, you know. So I'm grateful for the entire experience and for everybody who did this. Just really, I I call it like a collaborative uh project. I had, you know, photographers from Seattle, people who um, you know, worked at radio stations, just lovely human beings who came out to speak about mental health and Kirk Cobain's positive impact in the world. It's a very positive book. I mean, it's it's hard to write something happy when you know how it ends, um, but it's as positive as I think you can, you know, something like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:41

And it's him in a bigger picture as as a person in the man that he was. Yes. So that in itself, I think, is a beautiful thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:51

Yeah, I I think it's such a great way to shift the conversation. And because like even when you were talking about the publishing houses who were kind of kind of like, well, you know, changing it to be more, I guess, profitable. Oh, yeah, agents, yeah. Um I'm glad that you had the strength in you to keep true to yourself because I think that sometimes the message is more important than the I know what you mean. Yeah. Like the return. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I have I have a degree in psychology and I always wanted to get into like um clinical counseling and stuff like that, but you know, it it just wasn't in the cards for me or my wallet. So but to see something like this, it's like, oh the faith in the people, you know, because thank you. I I feel like people just don't appreciate how important mental health is.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:52

They don't. But it's sad though, and it's like like I said, like literary agents can be can be kind of tricky. And I've worked with some good ones and I worked with some not so good ones. And I did notice with some, like I was saying, they wanted a very kind of sensationalized book, and they they kind of like they dangle the carrot. They're like, I can sell this. And I was like, but I can't live with myself if I write that. I I won't. Like suicide isn't it's personal to my family because of Walter's loss. I was like, I'm not not going to do that. I was like, I won't do it, and I will do this on my own, my own way. And my first publisher, like I said, they had faith in the book as is. And then I was very, very fortunate that I got another, another deal. And I remember talking to some uh other literary agents, and they were like, the deal you have on the book is the book you have. You'll never get another one. They were like, it's 1% odds that you'll ever get another deal on that book. I'm here. I don't know. I I got it. My publisher is fantastic. I have an incredible publicist. Um, he's wonderful. You know what I mean? This whole thing, I said from the jump, if this book makes one person step back and say, my life has meaning, then I did my job. Or funds from it can help one person or one animal or one child, then it's worth it. And, you know, it's it's kind of like this, it's not like I don't know if paradox is the right word, but you write something like this, right? For mental health. And a lot of like, you know, what we learned, and I always like saying this too. I never the book is not about Kurt as the celebrity, it's about him as the friend. Because to me, that's who he is. He's a friend of a friend. So I only wrote about him from that perspective. And sorry, it's it sounds like there's probably like a stadium of people running around. It's fun and puppy. But so it's a six of one. But um, but no, so I uh I I wrote about him that way as a friend of a friend. And I wanted to make sure his image was treated with so much compassion because to me, you know, I look at how I met all these people, right? I met one person and they're like, go call this person, go call this person. And at some point, you know he would have been the next call. And to think, to hear my friends talk about him, like this this gap, this this hole that's missing. You know what I mean? And then to see the way so much of his life has been exploited online, and then how it was mostly very positive.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:17

But when you write about any kind of like a cultural icon, especially somebody like Kirk Cobain, you're gonna get the sensational part, not the real person part, because that doesn't sell, that doesn't give ratings, that doesn't sell books, that doesn't it's the truth, and you're gonna get people too who have very strong opinions.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:34

And I had a lot of people with very strong opinions. There's actually this Reddit thread, and some people were really unkind, and it was kind of um funny in a not funny way. Someone I went to high school with saw the post and was like, and I I only graduated two years ago, so I was fresh in his okay. But um, he saw the post and he was like, I know her personally, and he was like, This book is from pure intentions, and to see the negative comments just start getting deleted, or I had people like reaching out to message me, and I didn't have like Reddit karma, so I couldn't even like comment on the post. And when I finally got the karma, I was like, I'm just gonna post once. I was like, I'm not gonna sit here and like dignify a lot of these terrible things. Like, why would you say something? I'm like to any stranger. There's so much hate online. In the hateful world, we don't need more hate. And I was like, I'm just gonna put a blanket post out there. I was like, this is why I did it. You know, I don't keep the money. I did it for my family member Walter, who is a Nirvana fan who we lost to suicide. I was like, if you have legitimate questions about my work, I'm happy to answer. If you're here to attack me, I'm not justifying you with response. I don't owe you one. You know what I mean? And um, but that's easy. No, and I'm like, I write about mental, yeah, I write about mental health and and suicide awareness. And the book is part memoir too, because and this was I think the hardest part of the book was I didn't sit down with people with like a list, I didn't have any questions actually. I just um I told them about Walter and we had an open dialogue, and that's how the book reads, very conversational, you know. And I guess some people maybe felt that like in the first version there was some repetition in it, which I did try to kind of like amend for the second one. But I was like, here's the thing though, if it feels well is we've had tragic icon crammed down our throats. This is a book that's doesn't lean that. I don't know what other books about him are like. I haven't read them. I didn't want to come into this with anybody else's opinions in my head. I wanted to learn organically as I went. And I was like, I don't know. Someone can be depressed, someone can die by suicide. They can also be a wonderful, loving, compassionate, empathetic person. We don't have to be defined by one thing. So and the whole book is that. Um, and then there's a tour. I'll be doing a book tour. I guess because I'm I'm old and antiquated. I guess you could do these things online now, but I'm I'm actually like going. I have right now it's about like 15 stops. So it'll be from September through November. Um, indie bookstores, Barnes and Noble, uh record stores, and libraries, and everything is for charity. So the places that don't mind are letting me host um food drives. And then some events also have like live acoustic music. And uh yeah, that'll be it.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:15

Do you have um a link that we can put into the show? Yeah, so we'll put in the show notes this way. People can find out how to get the book, how to attend the book tour.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:26

Because Yeah, yeah, no, that would be wonderful. And everything is, I think, I think we're only selling tickets to like two events, and then those will be the ones that go to like um those like I like one is gonna have like food at it and stuff like that. It's just to try to maybe raise more money for charity, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:45

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:45

It's tough, but it's I'm doing it all by myself. It's it's a lot, but I I mean I I believe in what I'm doing, you know.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:52

I hope other people I think it's a beautiful idea. I really do.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:55

Thank you. I hope other people see the merit in it, you know. And like I said, my publisher's been phenomenal. My senior editor, um, Jesse McHugh, he's incredible. He took this this book that was already out, and he just really helped me fine-tune my thoughts. So I'm I'm super excited for this version. Um, the cover art is beautiful now. It was endorsed by Thurston Moore of Sonic Youth. Like he gave me a beautiful statement for me to include. Uh, just wonderful, kind human beings. So, and I always feel funny saying like my book. Like, I know like I wrote it, but I've called it a group effort, a collaborative effort. Because and I that's like one thing I can't stand too, is when people do things and they try to like steal all the attention. Like, I'm trying to have different local artists come out and help me on the book tour, and I'm like, let me know what I can do, like how can I help like you know, the the media that I'm doing, like you to kind of bolster you with it too.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:52

But I think that it's it's it's a lot of like give and take. And so because you are starting from that point point of uh altruism and and positivity, you're putting that out there, and so that's it's what you're attracting in return. Because look, you writing the book even for those reasons, I don't think anyone, I mean, I can only really speak for myself, but I don't think anyone would have fought you if you kept the proceeds because I'm sure that so much sacrifice has gone into the process of writing it. But not only right, not only are you doing this from a place of love and positivity for your friend, but to raise awareness for mental health, but then you're giving away the proceeds. So you've just elevated. And then not only that, but now you're going on a tour where you're holding food drive. So it's like way to kick it up even one more notch. And I think that the world needs more people like that who are thinking past themselves and how they can do good for people even when they don't even know them, but just because they know that it's the right thing to do or the or the good thing to do, you know, and it's commendable, it really is.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:13

I appreciate you saying that. I um a lot of people had said that to me too. They were like, nobody would fault you, even if you kept some of the money. Because when it first came out, I think I had said like 50% or something. And I looked at my husband and I was like, We're okay. We have a roof over our heads, like we can take care of our son, like we're we're fine. Like, I don't I said I didn't want it felt like a topic I wasn't comfortable profiting off of, like at all in any capacity. I was like, we literally lost like our family member Walter to suicide in order for this. My cat scratching now. Sorry, he's now he's gonna be bad. I was like, we literally had that not happened to Walter, I I wouldn't have written the book, you know what I mean? So I kind of sit here, like I I don't know. I just I I never felt right, and I have there's nothing wrong with people who do keep it. I just didn't want to keep it. That was me. And um I it was only out for three months, but I also did this um like a virtual writing workshop, and um all the money from that went to Camp Victory in Kurt's home uh hometown. Um they offer free summer camp for children who are sexual abuse survivors.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:17

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:18

So I try to find other ways to use the book besides book sales to try to help out however I can. Um, like I'm doing for the libraries, I'm doing it's free programming. So and I told them, I said, it's dealer's choice, what you want me to talk about. I said, I can talk about the book. I said, I can talk about how to get an agent, how to get a book deal, like how to outline a book, how to, because I'm I taught myself how to do all this and it's it's it's it's work. It's it's I mean, it's weird because I've someone the other day was like talking about something. It was I was like a friend group and they were like talking about when I did like Good Day Seattle, and they're showing, I was like, oh, I said um way too much, but it's weird to think that I've done stuff like that. You know what I mean? It's because it's it's humbling to think that people care enough to speak with me. You know what I mean? I was like, somebody put me on TV.

unknown 1:20:11

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:12

I'm serious. I think how many times I said um was like a drinking game, but you know what I mean? Like the fact that you ladies are giving up your Sunday to sit here and talk to me, like it's humbling. Like you could talk to anybody else and you're choosing to talk to me. So it's humbling because I I still sit here and I just think like I'm just like a schmuck from New Jersey. Like, why do people want to talk to me? But thank you.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:28

Because you're just we're sitting here feeling the opposite way. Like, why do you want to talk to us?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:32

We feel the same way you feel. Like, why was why does she want to talk to us? Like, oh my god, like she, I don't know. Wait till she logs in. She's like, what did I just do? Um lovely.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:41

I'm like, oh my god, can I talk to you again?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:43

Like, I just think you're so Yes, yes, you can. That's so freaking literally.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:47

Yeah. I I don't know. I just um I didn't think anybody would care what I had to say. So it's really overwhelming in the best way possible. And I always like to take something from it to tell other people. Like, because I can't even tell you how many disgusting things people said to me when I was writing this. Like I had some just some nasty people who didn't want me to do the book or like filthy things. And I was like, What why? Because you're like stepping on like toes, or it's considered like hollow ground or something, or kind of like, you don't have the right to do this. And I'm like, I don't have the right to write a book with a different perspective. I was well, agree to disagree, you know what I mean? And um, I think a lot of the time when people speak to a certain way or are very disparaging towards what you want to do, it's easy to lose hope and be like, that I'm not doing it. But I've got an accrate an incredible husband and child upstairs who have championed me the entire time, like, you've got this, you can do this, like do it. And I did. And to see myself like doing these things or like just the thought that it's coming back out with this like major publisher, like a second deal on this same book. It's it's just wild. And I'm like, I don't know what I did to deserve this, but I will not squander this opportunity. I think sometimes it can be easy to fall into a routine and it's like, well, the book's coming out, I'm gonna let Amazon do its work. I'm like, no, I'm going on like a regional book tour, like I'm doing this, you know, and I'll have my little plastic totes with me to build with much McCallitz. Much McCallit, yes. Basically, this is a food dry, but I only want to collect candy. What? This really is a food dry for you or no.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:28

But um well, if it's two in one, then that would be exclusive. It's fine. We could do two things at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:34

It's the truth, but I just I want people to know that like if you want to do something, as long as you're not doing anything bad that's gonna hurt anyone, don't let people tell you you can't. I got told no more times than I can shake a stick at. Like, I got told no constantly. And it's like, yeah, okay, all right, I'm still gonna go. Yeah, I'm just especially in this day and age, like to be a creative in this day and age, like you don't need someone to tell you yes. You can just go do it yourself. Yes. And that's how I was gonna do it. I was like, you can tell me yes, or I'm gonna do it on my own. And I don't have a problem doing things on my own, you know? Like um, all the media, the first time the book came out, like people are like, How the hell did you secure all that media? I was like, I did it on my own without a publicist. I just have no problem, I have no shame. I just call places, you know what I mean? And I'm actually pretty introverted, so I really had to step outside my comfort zone to do this. But when you're literally like sitting down to talk to like legendary members of like the Nirvana inner circle, it's like you you kind of can't be.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:37

Yeah, you kind of have to be out there.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:39

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:39

Right. You just gotta do it. You just gotta rip off that band-aid.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:41

You do. So I'm a lot more comfortable in my own skin, and I'd really like to advocate for other authors now and maybe like teach them how to do it. I actually just put book coaching on my website because um, I don't know, I I think it's something I'd like to like to try to help other people with, you know. And I I put on there too, I was like that. I'm totally because it's like I've seen like the payment for some of this stuff. It's like wild. They want like 150 bucks an hour, and hey, you get it if you can command that. But I'm like, I want everyone to be able to access it. So I'm just gonna kind of work with people and and stuff like that, you know. So I just want to make sure this book is paid forward and continues to do good outside of its pages, you know. I want my kid to be proud of me. I want my kid to be like, my mom did that, you know. I want him to know that he can be whoever he wants, you know. So I just keep going. And I'm kind of like starting to outline my my next book and stuff like that too. It'll be the same thing along the lines of like somehow with mental health and like a music component, and it'd be the same thing where I'll pick like different charity organizations to try to support with it. So I think I've found at 42. I've found my my my thing now. Your thing. Took me long enough, but I got there.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:50

And you're rolling in it, honestly. I think it's it's it does you well. Is there um I don't want this to end? Like it's like you said, it's going to pay for it outside those pages. Do you have anything planned for another like another book planned or anything else for?

SPEAKER_02 1:25:08

Yeah. Yeah, that one. I actually um this this one might be a little tricky because I have a certain musician I really want to work with, but I need to get him on board. I would really like to write something about eating disorders. Okay. Primarily in men, because it's something discussed. No, we don't. We don't. And I really want to get into how creative spaces um make it more challenging for artists, especially with the lack you look at in this the country in general, right? Lack of affordable health care. And then this was something obviously, this was a theme in Kurt's book. We talked about this. There is no health care for musicians, you know what I mean? Right. I think I'm gonna use this word again, like the paradox is that I don't even know if I'm using the right word for that, is so many people create out of necessity for mental health reasons. It's like there are so many of these artists that I worked with, and they were telling me that they had a traditional job and the job had mentally uh not mental health, had um health benefits. And it was like stay with the job that offered the health benefits but wasn't like nurturing or leave and go on tour with their band, but now they're shit out of block and they don't have the health benefits. And it was like it messes with you at a certain point. And we look sometimes, especially with eating disorders, how it can uh be um, it's not always just about like how your body looks, it can be like a sign of like a form of control. Yes. So that was so Kurt's book, like I said, it's a bio memoir kind of hybrid, but um it does, I don't want to say the word use, but it does use Kurt as a vehicle to discuss larger systemic issues, whether it's child abuse or lack of affordable health care, the unhoused crisis, addiction. Um, that's kind of a thing I like to have my work do is be more like all encompassing of different topics. And that's kind of and I'm a musician myself, a terrible one, but still a musician. And I understand why people need to create. It's for some people, it's not, oh, can I do this? Is it a hobby? It's an absolute necessity. It's a way of staying sane. Yeah. But there's all these things behind the scene things that I learned when I was writing his book just from speaking to these people that it's like, and even just my own experiences, like, you know, kind of getting my ass kicked online because I because I had the audacity to write a book. You know what I mean? Like, okay, again, don't read my book, you know what I mean? But it's like there's always a critic, always someone who's not gonna like what you do. And and I get that, and you can't do anything about it, it's the way the world is. You have to have a it this is this the you have to have a thick skin for it. And somebody said this in my book, you have to have a thick skin for it. And it's kind of like, but so many artists and creatives are so sensitive, so it's tough. Yeah. The next book I I think will lean more into that, and I I really do want it to have an emphasis um on eating disorders. So because I've seen that a lot in the creative spaces, especially with men, it's just not talked about. Like at all. No, it's not. And it's like my big thing is I like to remove stigmas because we're all on this planet for a reason. We all have the right to to live and thrive and feel good about ourselves. Yet we're often shut down or felt like we shouldn't feel this way because of X, Y, and Y. I and Z. And I I like to push back against that. So I think eating disorders in creative spaces is a good next place to go. And then kind of and mesh it again with some of the other topics that were discussed in Kurt's book. So I would say, even, and again, like, yeah, it's like shameless self-promotion, but even if you don't like Urkle Bain, I think someone can take something positive away from the book because it kind of forces you to like look at the world around you and say, why, why doing this or why is this acceptable in in 2026? Um and at the very end of it, too, there's a few pages that are just mental health resources, all like free mental health resources. So if someone's experiencing a crisis, um, you know, maybe you can plug in like a link or something that I have and or or call a number or text, you know, online. So that's the whole book.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:13

That's it. That's an amazing that's it. That's it. Thank you. Don't um whoa. Is your wrapping up too? I just I just bought this headset and microphone and set up. So I'm like, I can't get alcohol on it. So I'm very upset. I'm like, I love that.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:34

I'm gonna ask you my silly question before we wrap up. Why do you have to put your two cents in when it's really only a penny for your thoughts? Where's the extra penny going? Well, in your case, I think I know the answer.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:51

It's going to Leah Debbie's.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:53

Oh, I was gonna say charity, but okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:55

Oh hold on, is it my two cents? Because if it's my two cents, it's going to food. But if it's the book's two cents and it's going to penny for your thoughts, two cents. I don't know. Maybe some people's thoughts are not anything we want to hear in the birth loss. No.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:08

And they get the refund of the penny back for the two.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:11

Yeah, right. You ever ask someone a question and they give you an answer? You're like, Can I get a refund? So very much so. Especially on Reddit. Oh my God, I can't. I can't on there. Sometimes I just laugh until I cry with some of the stuff though. But other times I'm like, oh, I I don't want to be on the receiving end of that.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:28

You know. No. Before um, before we wrap up, uh please like just share where people can find more about you, how to get in touch with you, or like how to find information about your book or your tour, any anything that you want to share.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:45

Absolutely. Um, and thank you for letting me do that. Um, it's uh Skyhorse publishing. So it it's it's so it's this is weird. This is like one of these like weird things I still have a hard time wrapping my brain around. If you type in my name and Kurt Cobain, like everything comes up. It's so it's different. Yeah. It's pretty cool. That's SEO, I guess. That's that's Google and and metadata for you. Um, but I do have a website. It's um Kelly. I'm like, oh my god, what the heck is my website? I'm like, Kelly, hold on, I have to Google one. I'm like, is it writer or author? I'm gonna Google myself. Um no, it's uh where where am I? I I think it's KellyCatlin Author.com. Is that a terrible that I forgot? I'm like, why am I blanking on my own website? But I don't find myself that interesting. No, it's KellyCatlinAuthor.com. And on there it's um it's got a little bit about me, like my bio and my background, and then it's got uh a link to the book on there. Um, but it's on uh it's on Amazon, it's Barnes and Noble, so it's it's everywhere. Um, you know, my goal is to obviously get it into independent bookstores too, because that's what really matters to me is you know, having it's a lot of people don't want to go to like the big commercial sites or small local businesses too and stuff like that. Um so yes, on my author website, there's uh a contact page on there too, which is great. If anybody has comments, questions, queries, concerns, just wants to bitch at me.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:11

Um or uh maybe a new snack food recommendation.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:15

Yeah, basically, if you want to reach out to me, I'm happy to talk about snack food. That's to it. It's funny too, because people, ever since I wrote this, it's like they only ask me like Kurt or Nirvana questions. And I'm like, I like other things also. Um you get you do get typecasts, and I gotta tell you what what an amazing person to be typecast, if you will, with because I came in, like I said, learning about a friend of a friend. And I think I say in the book, somewhere across time and space, you know, Cobain became Kurt and he became my friend too. And it's just like an incredible human being. And I'm always happy to talk to people about that. Um, but yeah, the book is on it's called Kurt Cobain Forever in Bloom, the um The Legacy Beyond the Tragedy. And watch, I just told you the title wrong because I'm nervous because I'm being recorded.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:05

I forgot we were recording, honestly, to be quite honest. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:08

It's it's Axel Rose's greatest hits. What are you talking about? That's not the book. That's what happens when I get nervous. I'll forget my name. So what's your name? How do you pronounce your name? Whatever. What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_00 1:33:21

That girl over there. That's who I am. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:24

But now I got I got really up in my head now. I'm like, what is my author website? Why is this bugging me so much? KellyCallanauthor.com. Yes, I had to confirm. Um, and on there, there is a page. It says uh Forever and Bloom. And when you click on it, um, there's actually it'll show you all the charities where it goes to, and then it shows where where you can uh pre-order it, and it's Kirk will be in Forever and Bloom, the legacy beyond the tragedy, uh, with Sky Horror's publishing, who's just amazing and really made sure the book was completely like honored, you know, Walter and Kurt. Just a really incredible experience. So with them. I'm talking, I talk a lot. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:00

That's okay. No, we love this. But do you have do you have any last words or last thoughts for our listeners before we say our goodbyes?

SPEAKER_02 1:34:08

Um, thanks for listening. And for anybody who who checks out the book, um, thank you for taking an interest in it. Uh, if anybody ever, for whatever reason, can't access the book, they're always welcome to reach out to me. Um, if they want the book, you know, specifically for the list of mental health resources, I'm happy to email that. And I think it's important, uh, and I always feel like, and I know it's cliche, anybody who's whatever you're going through or you're feeling in the moment, if you feel like you're alone, you're not. And I I hope that someone can, you know, hear my story and understand that, you know, there's always a path forward, there's a way forward. Suicide isn't the answer. There are people out there who love you and want to connect, and maybe it's in an unconventional space or somewhere you weren't, you know, thinking. So that's that's my takeaway. Just know that you are valued and and and and you are worthwhile.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:01

Thanks for letting us yeah, you're welcome.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:04

Yeah, someone's cutting onions in my house. I know. I think it was a depressing experience. It was it was a test of it's uh it's hard, it's heavy, it's necessary, and you didn't have to run. Yeah. And you did it with grace, and you've done it with such respect and love from I Can Tell, and I appreciate you just as I appreciate you both.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:27

Thank you. Thanks for letting me share my story. I just um I I don't know, it's a positivity, you know what I mean? And paying it forward. I always like to tell people that too. I'm like, if anything about even if you don't buy my book, if you could pay it forward, just buy some food for someone. Because and that was the big thing. My my book is very, very research intensive. I think I have like 160 citations in it or something. And the numbers were staggering. I think it was like, I think it was six, seven hundred thousand like um unhoused like youth in America, like without an adult. It's like the numbers are terrible. Even the awful the statistics, the bullying and suicide rates, and it oh my god. So it was a tough book to write. But you read this stuff and it's like, you know, they're and even like I I know I have to do a lot of media when it comes, not have to, like in a bad way, like I want to do media, you know what I mean? But I know it's tough because I've done stuff before and you get asked the hard questions. And um, you know, I I like I said, I hope it, I hope it's helps somebody because Lord knows it's tough to do. It is. And and when people want to like tear me down online because they don't like that I wrote about someone that to them is like, you know, their icon, I'm like, try to remember that I I didn't write this for vanity. I didn't write this for any reason besides trying to help out and help myself understand, you know, Walter's death. So I'm like, maybe before you're unkind to a stranger, just understand that I didn't do this for the fun of it. Now, it although it was a blessing to be able to write this and the friends and the people I met were incredible, it was still very emotionally taxing and grating. So this wasn't like I woke up one day and was like, yeah, I'm gonna do this and immerse myself in in suicide culture for four years and pay out of pocket to f because you have to do so much stuff. You have to like license lyrics and all this. Um, I just wish people could be a little bit kinder. Just in general.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:18

So in general, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:21

Yeah. I don't know. Like I I couldn't, I don't know. It it's just tough. I just want people to take away something positive from it. Because at the end of the day, it was a really positive experience and one I'm completely grateful I got to do.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:32

Well, I'm glad that we were able to connect, and I'm glad that you chose to share your story here. I really appreciate that.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:40

Thank you so much. This was wonderful. You're you're both incredible. So thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:44

Thank you. And yes, we didn't pay her to say that.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:48

No, you're just lovely. You're just lovely human beings. You really are, and you love candy, so this is it. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:55

You paid it with what little Debbie and whatchamacallits. So, you know. Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:59

I feel understood. So are you gonna do the third ice cream sandwich? Why, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:05

Yes, but you don't mind. So I think after this, I'm gonna go to Walmart and get chocolate covered Oreos, some candy melts with some peanut butter. And I like the chocolate melts and I dip it in peanut butter. I have not done that. Neither have I. Like you've never got like the because you make chocolates. So I take the melts and I just dip it in peanut butter. I just you you mean like the like the patty type melts? The patty melts. No, I've never done that. I use it. And I dip them in peanut butter. And I just eat them in bed. Yeah. And you get it depending on what kind of flavor you get. Sometimes you get the vanilla flavored chocolate melts, sometimes you get the chocolate flavored chocolate melts, you know, depending on. And I just I go hot sometimes. I mix and match, I make little peanut butter sandwiches with the chocolate until I'm sick.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:52

Hold on, stuck. But hold on, hold on. Now I'm thinking something. You know those um I'm gonna what is it, non-parels? Is that how you say that? It's like the little chocolate patties with the with the white. This is probably gonna be gross, but I like the mint flavored ones. How would that be with peanut butter and the you know?

SPEAKER_00 1:39:09

Oh, I've never had I would try it. I would I would try it. I would try it.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:14

How then? It's like eating toothpaste and peanut butter, but I'm here for it. I don't care. But it's sugar toothpaste, so it's not like it's toothpaste toothpaste.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:21

Or like a peppermint patty with peanut butter on it. Oh, I'll like if it had like the the Andes mints, the Andes candies, same premise mints with chocolate and peanut butter. What about to try it?

SPEAKER_02 1:39:33

Yeah. I don't know, you can't go back because my husband cooked dinner. I'm like, mmm, do I want dinner or do I want to just go eat candy instead? Probably candy.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:41

So yeah, I think I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna get us a whole bunch of when Joanne's closed. They closed Joann's. I'm gonna have to go to Michael's and get the candy melts. Yeah. And then a peanut butter.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:52

Yeah. I've learned so many things today. Like my very informative. I know I have like the nutty buddies upstairs waiting for me. So they always know when I'm getting into them in the kitchen. You hear like the rapper crankling.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:05

Yeah. My mom just says gonna write a book when he's older. Like my mom, the the human rat.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:11

Like, I feel like he saw me the other day. He's like, What are you eating? He's like, Is that a nutty buddy and marshmallow? I was like, Yes. Like breaking the waves apart, putting the marshmallow in. I was like, Yes, the nutty buddy is a vehicle for the marshmallow to my face.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:24

So oh, I should get marshmallow fluff. I just want the fluff and just I need to go find something to eat now. I want junk food. I haven't had junk food in months because I haven't had an appetite. Yeah, I'm trying to eat better and I haven't had it, so I don't buy it. So if I don't buy it, I don't eat it.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:43

I'm sorry. I pushed you off the wagon. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:45

No, but that's the wagon I was trying to jump off of, anyways.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:49

Through the wagon, the wagon was bumpy as hell. I don't care.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:51

Yeah, I actually fell off the wagon because of the bumps. So there you go. You saved my life. I landed in marshmallows because of you. Thank you. You saved my life. I did.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:01

I jumped on, I hijacked the wagon, grabbed you, and threw you off into a pad of chocolate. Let's go do it. Let's go. I'll be there as long as a flight. I'm coming and getting you. Let's go. See, I'm food motivated. See, maybe people will email me and ask me questions about food, not just like all nirvana stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:19

And then you know what? We will be happy to make that happen for you. I'm glad we could be a vehicle for your food pleasure.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:26

It was so funny because I'll tell you this real quick. I remember this this one author, he said to me, He's like, if you don't want to get typecasts as just like a Kirk Cobain biographer, he was like, make sure you put out a second book immediately about something else. My second book is my first book. So it's that for me because maybe people could be like the Cobain biographer, but also the person with really, really, really high cholesterol and high sugar levels because she just yeah. The person if you cook her, she will bleed chocolate. I'm right.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:52

Who eats for fun? I I think more people should maybe eat for fun. I do. I'm okay with that. Eating for fun as opposed to eating just to survive, that makes me sad. People who just like, oh, I have to eat. And like they're like, yeah, I cook dinner and they eat, but they don't enjoy what they're eating.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:10

I used to do that because I've had high cholesterol my whole life. And then I realized that diet wasn't actually, it wasn't until I saw a cardiologist that they were like, stop looking at the number together, look at the number separately. They were like, it's your good cholesterol, it's like really high. And they're like, Oh, yes. I was on these like low-fat diets forever, and they're like, You actually, you're okay. They're like, go have fun. And I was like, uh, I heard go fun, I go have fun from a cardiologist, and I was like, What do I want to eat?

SPEAKER_00 1:42:34

I'm going, I'm going hard. But wait, you didn't tell me before your cardiologist, they didn't tell you why your numbers were high. They just said that it was high. Just like it's high. Maybe you might want to like not have salami for lunch. And I was like, They didn't tell you that your good cholesterol was sky high, and that's why you're overall number. Oh.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:51

I felt so stupid because I should have like thought to like look at it separately too. But a cardiologist, they did the whole workup and they were like, no, you're okay. They were like, the good cholesterol being so high is actually more like protective. Then they run like some other tests to see if it's like the aggressive cholesterol that wants to stick to your arteries or the fluffy kind that goes through. And it was, yeah, it was like a I don't think my cardiologist wants to be quoted as saying, go eat little Debbie's all day, but I'm like, But if you want to have some cookies, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:20

So you could have fun, you could eat fun, you could eat food for fun, and you could eat enjoy what you're eating.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:25

Eating fun. I was like, I guess I'll just have the chicken again, the grilled chicken, the boiled, unfun, unseasoned chicken. Bring it on. Yeah, I'm surprised I didn't grill feathers.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:36

So I now you could have like the rare red meat, and oh my god, I want a steak.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:43

At this point, all I'm thinking of is like KFC um chicken skin.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:47

Oh, that's all I just I just want the skin. Just the skin.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:51

You could get the chicken. I just want the skin.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:52

That's all I'm just hungry now. Now I'm gonna go.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:58

Yeah. I think Oh no, go ahead, sorry. I think we should do a like a part two and we should just eat.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:06

And then what our favorite like snacks are.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:09

Our favorite comfort food and snacks.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:12

What if we should do a part food at the grown-up park? Yeah, right, but a part two, and we each name like five things that we like, and everybody has to buy the five things and then do like a race like why did you tell me to eat this? That was disgusting. Can we? I love that idea. We can do this thing in peanut butter and do that just based on food.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:32

Okay. I already know what mine is. I think everyone knows what we've got five things.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:37

Yeah. And we eat.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:40

You mine is gonna be anything that comes in a box and that's you know, chromatically still and plastic. That's wrapped is elophane. As I started out saying, like, we're trying to be like less pet. Meanwhile, I'm like, my whole bet is like rapping. Never mind. I'm just a hypocrite. I wanted to do plastic three.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:00

We're definitely gonna have to do a a part two, even if it's just like a mini uh addendum with our snack foods.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:06

Cause I'm I mean no, I love that idea. Oh my god. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:12

But in the meantime, we're gonna wrap this up. In the between time. Yeah, in the between time. Thank you. We are gonna wrap this one up. As usual, we say drink responsibly, don't drink and drive. Visit us at sassinsips.com for all the ways for all the stuff to find out more about us, our guests, our past guests, what may or may not be coming down the line snack-wise. And we thank you again for just being here, being so open about everything, for sharing your story, for giving us a chance. We really appreciate it. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:49

Thanks for taking a chance with me. And well boy, you really got the whole I I love it.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:56

I'm happy. Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:58

This has been wonderful. You're both wonderful. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:01

Thank you. Thank you. And yeah, and until next time, I'm Lisa.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:04

And I'm Agnes.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:08

I'll go for it. I'm Kelly.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:10

I'm so motivated. So see you later bye.

SPEAKER_05 1:46:30

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