SPOTLIGHT Matt Hasty

SPEAKER_03 0:09

Hi and welcome to this episode of Assassin's Sips Spotlight. I'm Lisa, and today I am sipping on water, fancy water, because I'm playing Jane today.

SPEAKER_02 0:21

Your mint and lemon and your in infused water, Lisa?

SPEAKER_03 0:25

Oh yeah. Lots of it, so I could pee all day and all night.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

I'm your co-host Agnes, and today I'm also being a buzzkill, literally and figuratively, and drinking my own little water. Am I assassin's cup? Oh yeah, I know. That was not planned. It's just the biggest thing I have. And our guest today on Spotlight, Matt was it Hasties? Hasty Hasty.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Yeah, like don't be so hasty to mispronounce my name.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

I like that. And he is now no longer our guest because he never wants to speak to us again because I mispronounced his name.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Um that little speech.

SPEAKER_02 1:05

I just joking.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

No, I did that. I'm just what I'm saying. I love him.

SPEAKER_03 1:10

We love it. What are you drinking?

SPEAKER_01 1:12

I I actually drinking this. Y'all think y'all are buzzkills. I'm drinking black coffee in a Captain America coffee mug where the handle is broken off. Really? So it's just like a cylinder of a coffee cup.

SPEAKER_03 1:24

Okay, that's kind of badass. It's still worth it, though.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

It's well, it's all my coffee cups are like this. So this is just the one that they're I told y'all I spent way too much time thinking about my favorite drink. And it's, I mean, I drink just like I drink water and I drink coffee now. I the that I don't have anything against alcohol. I just haven't, you know, done that in so long that I'm like, you know, black coffee. This is what I drink all day, every day, anyway.

SPEAKER_03 1:48

Is that your preferred way to drink coffee? Black?

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Yes, definitely. I can't. When I first started drinking coffee, I did put a bunch of stuff in it. And then over time, in the military, you can't always get all that stuff, or you get the creamer that's just like a block. And you have so after a while, it's just like, just give me the coffee. I'll drink it, you know. But the the taste doesn't bother my hot bean juice. It doesn't bother me anymore.

SPEAKER_03 2:13

I love that hot bean juice. I'm gonna I'm gonna use that.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

Am I supposed to introduce my my name's uh well I'm at hasty. I'm um I'm originally from the deep south, the Mississippi Delta region, uh Vicksburg, Mississippi, uh Alexandria, Louisiana area. Uh lived there for 19 years, and uh it's a very poor region of the country, and I was I grew up relatively, I mean, there were plenty of people who were more poor than I was, but uh relatively poor. We had a tray at one point I lived in a trailer that had a hole in it in the uh dining room, and my mom slept in the living room, that was her bedroom. So that's like you have a place to stay and the power's on and you get to school. Yeah, we had everything we needed, but uh my goal when I was joined the military, as much to, and there is an aspect of serving your country, but also to take care of yourself was to position myself in a way that uh I would make money when I got out of the military. That that was a big part of it. I chose information systems operator analyst to learn all about computers and network security, so that you know, that's one of those in the year 2000, everybody knew the future was computers. So uh jumped into that and did for for 20 years in the military. I became an information technology expert for anybody that knows what these things mean. I had a CISSP, a CCMP, a C CNA, uh CCNA voice, network plus, security plus, all the technical certifications you need to succeed in that industry. I had a I have a bachelor's degree in information technology management, I have a master's degree in organizational leadership. Um, I became a career soldier and dedicated myself to all my goals in a way that when I finally got out of the military, and and I I there's a lot of veterans that will badmouth the VA and the DOD in various reasons, and a lot of it's justified, but in my personal experience, the DoD and the VA took care of me very well when I transitioned out of the military. And they set me up in a way that all of my goals had been reached. The the paycheck I was getting as a federal government contractor was more than I could have ever dreamed about for uh, you know, as a kid in Mississippi. But had kind of an existential crisis. Uh, for anybody out there that struggled long and hard to reach one of your worldly goals, you'll find that uh a lot of the times when you reach those major goals, you feel like the pursuit was more rewarding than actually reaching the goal. Um that's what happened to me. Fell into a deep dark hole, felt called by God, ran for Congress in Louisiana's 5th district and did not win. Uh my claim to fame is that I ran for Congress in Louisiana's 5th district in the same year that Kanye West ran for president in the birthday party, and I got more votes for Congress in Louisiana's 5th district than Kanye did in the state of Louisiana. So Kanye's got me on you know talent and money and you know all that stuff, but he'll never beat me in that, you know. In that in that one specific category. Kanye can never take that from me.

SPEAKER_03 5:23

I love how it's all about this the perspective.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

You know, like you gotta shift a little bit and then hey, there's a lot of great things came out of that. Because a lot of the even now would uh because after I lost uh I decided to become a full-time dad, moved to Charleston, got custody of my daughter. Um, and now I'm a retired full-time dad with my free time. I do things like this, and I teach at a local technical college, and I've dove into my artistic side. I do a lot of student films as an actor, a lot of community theater. I've directed some plays. I teach uh acting for the camera at the local technical college. So I've uh have had have had such a blessed life that now I am in this position where I'm as happy as I've ever been. That's everything about my life is going so great that I'm now able to peacefully pursue things like artistic creativity and adult conversations with lovely young women who are interested in sitting around on the veranda and sipping mint julepes and allowing an old weirdo redneck like me to ramble on for 20 minutes when it should have just been a simple introduction. I should have just said my name's Matt. You know how difficult it is just to introduce yourself, man. You've been talking for like 20 minutes.

SPEAKER_02 6:42

This is the whole point of the show. And first of all, anyone who calls us young, listen, you are my. Is that disrespectful?

SPEAKER_01 6:50

I didn't mean to be disrespectful. You are my Christmas card.

SPEAKER_02 6:53

I'm a grandmother. So you'll be a young lady. I I that's why I say I love you. You are now my Christmas card list and all the other lists, and whatever holidays.

SPEAKER_03 7:05

I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00 7:06

This podcast is going so great.

SPEAKER_03 7:08

I know. I love you. So I'll take it. Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

We're oh I I oh you you're a lovely young woman as well. You are both lovely young women. And anybody who tells you otherwise has, you know, delusional worldview problems. You tell them come see me.

SPEAKER_02 7:25

Deal. Like you go see our our friend Matt. Um, I have a question. So you have a very interesting life, and I am excited to know the segue between the military and technology and information and and acting. How did that transpire? Was acting something you always wanted to do? And the other stuff was just to pay your bills, or how did that work out? What's your first love?

SPEAKER_01 7:55

Well, and I I think it goes all the way back to, you know, I think most of anybody with a psychology degree, I'd tell you most of this stuff goes back to childhood. And mine was uh as a young teenager, the morality that helped to shape me from a young man into a man came from movies and it came from comic books, and it came from this uh these fictional worlds where the heroes did what was right, you know, the bad guys were bad, and you know, it was good to honorably serve other people and try to protect the weak, crap like that. And I didn't realize how much of this helped to shape my worldview, of course, until many, many years later, because the military does a form of this, but the military is also something that can corrupt it. Uh, but the way that movies were so influential to me early in my life and how that over time I'd just become it's my favorite artistic uh medium is the ability of a movie to it it doesn't matter who it any any random 50 people from all over the planet Earth can sit inside of a movie theater and feel that same thrill when Han Solo comes out of the star and saves Loop Skywalker from Darth Vader. You know, it's got nothing to do with their lives, but the beauty of film as an artistic medium is that it can, it makes us all forget for 90 minutes, for 120 minutes, that we are people inside of a theater staring at flashing images on a screen. No, we're invested in the fate of Loop Skywalker, and we don't want Darth Vader to hurt him. And when Han Solo changes his mind at that last minute and shows up at the exact right time, it's just something that's it's very beautiful and powerful. So I've always loved films, and uh as I started to transition to this place where I am now, because after I lost for uh, you know, got out of the military and decided to try politics, but then politics didn't work out, so then I decided to come here and uh be as close to my daughter as I possibly could, and eventually I got custody of her, and that allowed the the focus in my life that also allowed me to explore my creativity, my my creative side. Did I give you a $500 answer for a 50 cent question?

SPEAKER_02 10:10

You gave me exactly what I wanted and what I was looking for.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

Okay. Have you ever considered it? Is or I mean, are you ever interested in the film industry? Is that an obsession of yours or or at least No, I not. I've also done screenwriting. It's really not that difficult.

SPEAKER_02 10:26

No, that's really I don't like to oddly enough, I don't like to be in front of the screen. I don't like to be seen. I don't I don't like people to s notice me. It doesn't work out that way. I kind of Lisa laughs because I am the person that people talk to and I'm like I don't like it.

SPEAKER_03 10:48

I really don't and I'm the same way. But outwardly, you and I are very different. Like when we go out, you're the peacock. You're the one dressed up, you're the one who's way more put together. And I look like I just crawled out of a hole somewhere in the ground and had to fight raccoons on my way out.

SPEAKER_01 11:12

Like you know you both look you're both showing you yourselves on camera right now and you look fine. So I'm gonna tell you right now. That's the irony, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:23

Is that here we are still showing up to do this, and even when I was a kid, I was always the same way. I was always that person who wanted to crawl in the closet and hide and just leave me in my room, don't whatever. But if somebody was like, um, we want to cast you, I'd be like, I'm there. I have auditioned for stuff. I mean, I've and it's that dichotomy is crazy though, because it's like, how can I separate myself? But then it's like, oh, but that's fake, that's fantasy. I get to be somebody else, and it's not me.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Let me tell you the last, the last to what you and I I can't I don't know you very well, so I'm not gonna pretend to know your psychology, but for me, what you're describing is very familiar to me, and I will tell you what because I'm I'm when you were in the military and you have to wear this uniform, if you're walking around in a grocery store, people are gonna stare at you. And it used to drive me crazy, and it's not anything disrespectful, it's just that I stick out, and I know that it so I get what you're saying about I don't I don't I used to change just to go anywhere off post because I don't want people staring at me or noticing me. But the last piece to to overcoming that, to being able to be audition and and all that is to realize that even the thing that you are putting on as your personality in everyday life is a role. They're all roles. I mean, whoever you are when you're inside of your own home, you know, watching TV and throwing things at the kids, you know, that's my mom used to hit me with flip-flops in the grocery store. But that's not the same person you are when you're sitting around a conference table at the office. So, I mean, it's just how you get into that mentality of this is a role and that's a role. Jim Carrey said it best. Even the the character that you know as Jim Carrey is a role. Everything he's doing is a role. And once you it's a it's an age-old concept, how we all wear masks, you know, even in public and all that stuff. But if you if it's something you would everybody should have an artistic outlet in in some way, shape, or form. And you don't have to be good at it. I don't even think I'm not a great actor. I mean, you know, I'm working community theater in Charleston, you know. That's I'm not Tom Cruise. But uh the point of it is to have an avenue that you can push those emotions out into the world in a way it doesn't matter, it can be drawing, it can be writing, it could be clay, whatever it is, playing the piano, something that allows you to express creativity. And if it's not acting, that's that's fine. That's what it was for me. Did you enjoy it when you went through it? And if not, what's the artistic medium that you think that you this is an artistic medium, by the way?

SPEAKER_03 14:06

Right. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 14:07

So the art of the conversation.

SPEAKER_03 14:09

I I did enjoy it, like doing plays and you know, stuff like that. Like I always enjoyed it, but it just wasn't it wasn't enough when Real Bill started, you know what I mean? It's like now you You can't make a living from it.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

I mean I mean you can, but that's not you shouldn't plan on making a living from it.

SPEAKER_03 14:27

Right. And and then it's like you push it aside, you push it aside, you don't have time, you know. And so like yeah, in the interim between then and now, there's other ways. Like there's painting, there's drawing, there's writing, uh all those things that you say. I mean, I have a closet full of art supplies. Um, but also for me, what I find the most therapeutic is cross-stitching. And I sit there like you know, the 95-year-old little old lady that I am with my glasses, you know, perched down on my nose. I can see over jewelry, and I'm there with my light and my patterns and mint jewelry, yeah, or a glass of wine in my case. But yes, and you know, we're we're sitting around watching TV, and there's Lisa in the corner with her with her cross stitch. But it's that's it.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

But that's I knew a grown man that his I don't want to embarrass anybody because I don't want to judge anybody, but he he was what they call a brony. Like he was y'all ever heard this term? Yes, he he was obsessed with my little pony, and I don't look, I'm not judging anybody else. I walked into a barracks room and it is it hit you out of nowhere, okay? I'm not being disrespectful. I just expected it.

SPEAKER_03 15:43

It's just unexpected, right?

SPEAKER_01 15:45

Yeah, and so but that's that was his artistic medium. He drew those pictures, he was actually an animator, and every and I was like, so it but it doesn't matter what it is. Uh everybody should have cross-stitching. I mean, anything that uh it it gives you that avenue. That that's kind of what it's supposed to be. It's relaxing with you putting your conscious brain aside for a minute and focusing on that creative aspect.

SPEAKER_03 16:08

Creating, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

Yeah, yeah. So I didn't wrong cross-stitching.

SPEAKER_03 16:12

Oh, yeah, no, I mean I agree, but it's funny because I guess you know, doing crafts like knitting and crocheting and anything with the needle and thread is always like little old lady terrorists.

SPEAKER_04 16:24

Little old lady stuff.

SPEAKER_03 16:25

And I've been doing this since elementary school, so I don't, you know, I don't care, but it's just for me, it's so therapeutic.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

What about you, Agnes? What's your artistic outlet?

SPEAKER_02 17:01

Oddly enough, I am um when I was younger was many um outlets. I did um I was in orchestra for oh my god, from third through high school, all the way through high school. When did we start when did I start playing? Third grade? So third grade through high school. So there was music, there was dance.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

What did you play? What was your instrument?

SPEAKER_02 17:23

I was a violist and played at Carnegie Hall twice. And I did dance.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

How do you get how do you get to Carnegie Hall?

SPEAKER_02 17:32

Practice, practice, practice.

SPEAKER_03 17:37

I like that. Or by train, you know. Or a train, but it's yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

All my experience with until I lived there, all my experience with New York was based on cliche movies and TV shows. So by the time I finally saw Carnegie Hall, I'm like, oh, that's what it's from.

unknown 17:50

That's what it's from.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

So but as soon as you said that, that was the first thing that popped into my mind. I'm so glad. So when was the last time you played?

SPEAKER_02 17:58

Oh my god, the last time I played, I think was high s 12th grade, senior year in high school. I turned in my instrument at the end of the that last performance and haven't picked it up. I still play piano a little bit. Not much, more like memory. But I still dance. I don't do the modern dance anymore because my body doesn't move that way anymore. So I picked up line dancing. Um but yeah, I just anything to get my mind not thinking about things.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

And that's and it's it's more and more difficult, I think. It's easy for me to say these things too, because like I said, I'm retired, I'm retired. I'd I'd live very simply off of a military, you know, retirement income. I'm not rich, but my daughter has everything she needs. You know, God has blessed me with it. I haven't had any real need for a whole lot of money. So that has freed me up from having to have, you know, when you're not gainfully employed, you got more time on your hands to do things like acting or playing the viola. But uh I would recommend everybody just like try to once a week, even if it's just 10 minutes, just something to sit down and draw badly, you know, pull out get a it's okay, it's not supposed to be good. That's not what it's about. I have a as a grown man, I have pulled out coloring books and colored. I did this just I was I was working as a poll, I was a poll worker, and it was one of these middle elections where nobody really shows up. And so there's long periods of time sitting around, and we were in a church. I found this church coloring book, and I'm I'm a 46-year-old man, you know, trying to stay inside the lines. Whatever it takes just to to that side of our I think it's one of the things that we've left behind as a culture is the understanding of you know the importance of art and it's hard though. It's so it is, everything takes time and patience.

SPEAKER_03 19:53

Not only that, but you know so many of us are struggling just to get by. Um, you know, working crazy hours, working multiple jobs, and then when you throw in family obligations on top of that and and sometimes even commuting you know, times it doesn't leave a lot of energy.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Do you work in the city?

SPEAKER_03 20:16

So I'm mostly remote.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:19

So my commute my commute is about 10.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

I wouldn't want to deal with going from Jersey to the city, but no, we said on anybody.

SPEAKER_03 20:25

Well, but I have to say, like, there's the bus stop is a block away from my house and it takes me right to Port Authority. Yeah. And then from there it's a 15-minute walk to the office. So there are worse ways to commute. Beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, which is one of the reasons when we did move to Jersey, we moved to this area because it's highly commutable.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

Yeah. Definitely. So that was that was one of the things that blew me away about living in Manhattan. I had I was on East 79th Street, and I mean the bus stop at the end of the 79th Street line ended right, I was right there next to the FDR. And it ended, but the last stop was like right there in front of my building. So I it was I like I said, I'm from the rural part of the country. The idea that I can get anywhere in this city, you know, just by sitting on my butt, just walking out there, and you sit down, and somebody will literally chauffeur you to a place in this city. Might have to switch, you know, but it's just that it was such an awesome part about living there. There was, you know, the rush hours are pain in the butt, but rush hours are pain in the butt everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 21:26

Everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

At least in New York, you ain't gotta worry about parking or getting an old car wreck.

SPEAKER_02 21:33

Yeah, I didn't learn to drive until I left New York. Yeah. I was 30 something years old. And I was like, maybe I I've like, well, I have to learn how to drive because I have to, you know, they don't have mass potential, you know, they don't have subways here. So if I ever move back to New York, I once again I will not be driving in New York. I don't have the patience because I'm kind of spoiled. There's not there's no traffic here. I don't have traffic here. There's no traffic. Even when I'm on the eye, I'm going to chicku to Chicago, there's not traffic. I'm spoiled. First world problems, and I don't want to deal with that as a driver if I go back to New York.

SPEAKER_03 22:09

Whereas how many times did it take me three hours to drive to LaGuardia? And I'm like, I could have I literally could have walked faster. I I have had people where I'm bringing them into the city, yeah, into Manhattan for some. thing and the traffic is so bad that they'll be like you know what just I'll I'll just walk it because you can legit walk faster than the car will take you because there's so much traffic and I'm like yeah I don't understand how people get speeding tickets to New York.

SPEAKER_02 22:41

I'm like what definitely not in Manhattan. No right that's impossible. And I thought and I I think to your point earlier with the the lost art of art of arts is they're taking arts and funding out of schools. I know my ability to do all the things that I did was because I was introduced to them in school.

SPEAKER_03 23:02

I was introduced to an instrument in early our elementary school had the violin program and many, many schools did not have violins as part of their music program.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

So we were really lucky that we had that my my daughter goes to a a school of the arts and it's not just the the uh the focus that they allow on art as a major it's the quality of teaching for all the other classes. So a lot of the times what'll happen is that the way that they're funding these schools is they'll put it all into a special school and then they'll have auditions to get into it and you know really because there's also criteria for getting kicked out because if her grades drop below a certain level I mean you got to get reinvited every year. So I do th I agree that it is absolutely necessary to get introduced to the arts at a young age and I'd love to see it in more schools and not just these specialized schools. Special schools because she I mean she's literally she has an artistic major you know she's about to be 13 tomorrow and you know she of course it's her favorite class but they've got writing and dance and theater and uh is it chorus there's another word for it that whatever the vocal vocalists choir maybe choir maybe it I I feel like they said there's another fancier word that they said. You know I can't remember all them fancy words. I don't need to know all that crap. There's art school they go up there and they make art but it's what that's one of the reasons I think that maybe it's it's not that as common or as important you know in adults is just like you were saying we don't have the time and a lot of people don't get introduced to it at a young age and if they are introduced to it they get discouraged because it takes you know no matter what it is if you want to get good at it it's going to take years and years and years and years of looking bad and failing and you know and a lot of people don't want to do that it so that as we get older it's just not a priority. But but that's not usually a conscious decision either. There's only 24 hours in the day.

SPEAKER_03 25:19

But I think it it also goes back to what you said before is that you don't have to be good at something to Yeah just do it. Just do it.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

If if shading in lines makes you feel that you know calm and happy and that that you know sense of like it's about turning off that conscious mind of the of the daily concerns, the daily worries everything goes away and it it's a task that's not very important but it's just enough to draw your focus that your brain has to it can't leave it. You know you know what I'm saying? And it because it's entirely artistic it exercises a part of the mind that we don't exercise enough at least in my opinion. But that's you're exactly right. You ain't gotta be good at it just do it. And I know like something feel stupid man it's okay. Dance.

SPEAKER_03 26:07

Do it do it alone and then nobody will laugh at you.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

You know there's nobody there but your cat and your cat doesn't care you know yeah your cat'll just probably run from you like okay or sit on your coloring book if it was like my cat.

SPEAKER_03 26:19

But you know and I think it's unfortunate that sometimes like we go into hobbies and then put this pressure on us like okay well I want to start painting so now I need an easel I need canvas I need paints I need brushes I need whatever and and then you're looking at this like $100 $200 bill as this entry point and you're like oh no I can't afford that but yeah who's got $200 to throw away I can tell you in some of my rougher days I mean I would find pieces of wood that people threw out on the street and I would pick up those little pieces of wood and just kind of clean them and you know yeah buy a couple of paints or whatever and a cheap brush so maybe I spent like five bucks, ten bucks but I would take a pair of scissors to your garbage. I mean I would take a pair of scissors to your garbage create bad art out of your garbage anything that was something that was about to be discarded that nobody was going to miss if I like fucked it up that's what I would use to just tune everything else out. And yeah maybe it's not going to sit in a museum because you painted on the back of speaking of cats you paint it on the back of like an Amazon box but if it made you feel good in that moment and it it caused you to have like some sense of like happiness go for it.

SPEAKER_01 27:40

It's about it's about bringing something new into the world that did not exist before your creativity created it. That's all it's about yeah and if you can successfully do that you can you can satisfy that requirement for you but like you said earlier don't don't plan on getting rich you know don't plan on paying your bills by being an actor or you know by m you know making your garbage art. Maybe that'll happen and maybe you know good for you if it is but that's the beauty of art and being able to appreciate what it can do for us as individuals and as shit communities, families, you know, nations, people across all borders is understanding that side of your brain that and I'm not saying yours I'm just saying you know people in general. Everybody should have an artistic outlet.

unknown 28:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Aren't y'all glad I can babble on and on about the lots of opportunities say okay I gotta cut this.

SPEAKER_02 28:43

So I'm gonna ask you my silly question though. Oh wait we have silly questions. Are you ready?

SPEAKER_01 28:48

I'm ready. I used to look this is what I had an interview the other about a week sorry I had an interview about a week ago with a guy whose his show is called 1,000 questions and he kept trying to trip me up with these weird would you rather do this or would you rather do that and he thought he was getting to me I think and it's like when you're in the military and you're sitting in a Humvee for 30 days at a time that this is what you do. You sit around and you say each other's dumbest questions and then you argue over the answers. Yeah when he was asking me these questions I'm like dude dude this ain't nothing to meet the age you'll mean to make your hair fall out I'll start asking some questions but yeah please silly questions whenever you want what are two things that you think are normal but become really strange when you do them regularly what do I think is normal that becomes strange when you do it oh um tell the truth all the time you know you're not wrong oh my god tell the truth all the time when someone when you walk into a gas station and somebody says hi how you doing I stop and I look at them and I say I'm doing all right man how you doing and like from that moment on when somebody asks a question, you know, treat it like they really want to know and start diving past those platitudes and you'd be amazed how many people start to get offended or bored or it's like it's like hey maybe but that's you start to notice how unusual it is if you do it all the time.

SPEAKER_03 30:23

So I think that's also something genuine about your response and and I think that's what also throws people off is that they can sense the genuineness and it's like wait a minute.

SPEAKER_01 30:34

Wait what kind of alien is this like nobody is just I live in pursuit of the truth and love and grace and you know I'll never get there because we all fall short but uh if you I in my opinion that's the best way to live your life and sometimes it does throw people off and that's fine.

SPEAKER_03 30:58

That's I want it to throw people off because yeah you can all be like this all the time I I I believe in that I I think that that is something as a joke.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

You don't want I don't want everybody to be like me all the time man. People would I they get their feelings hurt. Sometimes you want to be left alone you don't want this jerk who's trying to be friendly at the DMV.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

So yeah trust me it's not good to be like this all the time I I oddly enough I'm that person that wants to be left alone but people want to talk to me and I'm and I'm like oh fine that'll be your therapist 30 seconds fine that'll be your therapist as I'm trying to buy milk.

SPEAKER_01 31:38

Fine let's go and then I just and it's always like a sweet old person too and you're like man this poor you know probably didn't have anybody to talk to and it's like and I hope that these people really don't talk to me and you know why?

SPEAKER_03 31:53

Because I'll end up being like here's my number just call me if you need anything and they'll call really nice I don't want to be that nice 30 in the morning like what are you doing? I mean there was like a little lady in the doctor's office and she was having all of this these problems with her insurance because they weren't supposed to collect a like a copay there but then they had an issue with her paperwork and she's sitting next to me while we're waiting it's only her and I in the waiting room and she's like almost in tears and she's trying to call her kids to find out how they can help her. Her husband died so she's just kind of like really on her own and she's handing me her paperwork and she's like Miss I'm so sorry to bother you but do you know what this means and I was like I really didn't know what one of them meant because it was like a personal history question and I'm like I can I can Google you know like let's figure it out and she keeps going back to the counter and the and the women there were so nice also that you know they were really trying to help her but their hands were tied because it's insurance and so like we're all trying to help this lady and she's just so upset and like all everybody wants to do is hug her and I'm just like I I kind of just want to be like ma'am do you want to come home with me? Like do you want dinner?

SPEAKER_01 33:11

Can I can I that's but I mean that's a beautiful that's uh I hate to keep you know talking like this because I don't want to turn anybody off but that's what we call the grace of God. And inside of that you're feeling that grace because justice is uh getting what you deserve mercy is not getting what you deserve and grace is getting something you don't deserve that this woman didn't other than being overwhelmed at what was happening to her she you wanted to give her resources that she had not earned or any do you see what I'm saying? Like you wanted to give her a place in your home. You wanted to give her dinner from your home.

SPEAKER_03 33:51

I just didn't want her to feel bad.

SPEAKER_01 33:53

It was it's a beauty oh I know and it but it was thinking like feeling when that was my mom to you exactly or your mom you know I would hope that somebody would just you know at least make her feel like okay like I'll sit with you.

SPEAKER_03 34:08

If if nothing else I can sit with you and just keep you company while you figure this out and I just I just felt so upset that she was upset because clearly she was going through so much but there really wasn't anything I could do for her.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

Yeah. You get to that point and that's one of the the down that's I'll turn this into a rant about all of society. But one of well one of the negative aspects of the well I will then but it we have a global capitalist society and a global political society that has quantified and calculated and collated all of the individual people inside of that society in a way designed just to feed a machine that creates money and power. And it's perpetuated itself over a period of you know a hundred years through the quantum digital revolution that's going on in technology now. But a side effect of that we've gotten a lot of benefits from this but the side effect of that is that the individual person, their individual needs and wants and desires and problems, they get lost in the shuffle because that system is just about the forms. They're just about the blocks that they can put you in so that they know how to assign resources to you in a way that balances out a bottom line of some kind and if there's only one person in the entire world who's having an individual problem the company doesn't care. The the national political structure doesn't care. And the reason is that that's not how they make decisions. Their decisions are based on numbers of you know millions, thousands, you know, millions of people and when your individual needs are not important enough the there that's the result you're going to end up with is a little old lady who is completely overwhelmed by these forms and who has reached a part in the system that no one can help her. Literally the decision is happening so far removed from where this nice old lady is that not even is there nobody in the building that she can talk to nobody in the building can even access the person that she would have to talk to to get the the level of exception. It would take the board of directors to rewrite the you know books for the quarterly margins. I don't know crap about Pa you know the corporate world but uh it it's just terrible to see that that becomes very and even in a world where it's a small town community in a gas station at some point somebody's gonna run up against something that nobody can do anything about because no I can't let you drink gasoline man. I just can't let you do it. It's just one of those things. So uh I it's frustrating to to hear that but it it's beautiful to hear how you reacted to that and how the other people in the office reacted to that is because that's that human connection that we miss more and more in our modern age of social media to be able to extend that grace to each other and to have that grace extended to us. Because when somebody is just nice to you for no reason I mean you know you'd be sitting there struggling at the grocery store and all of a sudden you realize you don't have your wallet and the person behind you is like no I'll pay for it. You know and you do you don't know so you'll want to deny it just because you're so overwhelmed that somebody could even do something like that. But that's the side of hey maybe that's the hippie artist actor side of me trying to see the a man after my own uh bleeding heart over here well I'm not a hippie I that word means something else nowadays so I'm not a hippie but I just a little hood. A little hipp so wait what does it mean now it does it mean the same thing I think I don't this in I don't know what it is in in Wisconsin I don't know what it is in Brooklyn or Jersey. I know what hippie means like in the deep south so the the hippie in the deep south is like the I mean they're the people that live on communes and do drugs all day and play guitars and still hippies never take a shower. Yeah okay say okay yeah okay I'm like wait this isn't yeah that's who they are that free love everybody loves that big body I'm not I'm not a hippie in that sense I'm a hippie in that I could talk to those guys. Yes and like you know I hey man I'm all about love but what somebody's gonna have to take out the trash bro so somebody's gotta dig that ditch over there all right that wasn't how they like that's the part where I start to lose some of my hippies I lose it yeah same well that's where the hood part comes in somebody's gotta take care of business you ain't gonna sit right there and then go eat this food I'm fitting to go get you ain't done nothing.

SPEAKER_02 39:05

We can all sit here and sing kumbaya but if the wrong person uh starts some shit where's the bat yeah somebody's gonna you gotta keep the wolves at bay you gotta keep the wolves at bay we're fine I've gone I have a it's not my normal silly question but I need to understand this is my question for you do you believe you have leftover soup leftover stew are you that person that believes it needs to be put into a round container or do you not care? No I don't care.

SPEAKER_01 39:38

See this a thing I think I think it would be in a round container because if there's any sizable quant no I got another container I'd use I don't have to you you would use a square or a rectangle container I would use whichever one's clean and big enough to hold it.

SPEAKER_03 39:54

See soup belongs I might just wrap whatever container it's in now in tin foil and put it in the I was just gonna say half of the time the leftovers just go into the fridge in a pot in my house to see I mean I'd number them up soup needs to go in a round contain round or cylinder shape.

SPEAKER_02 40:10

You have more OCD than I am soup does not go in a square container I'd rather put I would leave it in the pot and put that in the refrigerator as if I put it in a square container.

SPEAKER_03 40:19

After this episode I think I have to rethink this friendship. Please do no what about a cube see that would irk me like no I'm with him whatever it fits in is where it's going.

SPEAKER_02 40:34

But apparently I was scrolling through I was I don't know what was I doing I think I was going through Facebook whatever and I was some post is like soup goes in a round container I'm like yeah of course it does and then someone and that's how we think the comments I was just like oh you didn't know these people existed no I didn't I was like oh my god I thought I had quirks this isn't something we all do what do we of course it goes in a round container where else would it go?

SPEAKER_01 40:59

Like when you order soup for a Chinese recipe one time soup comes in a cylinder shape could think I will store leftover food inside of not soup notes as it's like soup like a liquid whatever's gonna hold them I might make a little bowl out of tinfoil or something or put tinfoil in a cup and then wrap the cup. I don't that's I've never been and it plus if it's super stew and you want to like you want to eat it on the go or something you can use it like a cup if it's a certain size you know round but round as a bowl. That's you end up with the round or a cylinder?

SPEAKER_03 41:38

Yeah if you got the the square ones you have a nice corner to drink out of yeah like the glasses on Star Trek.

SPEAKER_01 41:45

Oh my God makes it easier less still okay something somebody like me that that comes in handy less still okay I mean I've never I've never had that question before I I didn't know there were people on you right well and I didn't know that that was a thing that some people I didn't know it was the wrong person. What are you doing with that stew?

SPEAKER_02 42:08

I didn't know it was a thing either until I was like of course it wasn't a wrong container why is this even a question and then I was like oh apparently I'm you know there's this I have people out there and I didn't know that there was a I'm I'm glad you found your good I mean is there a good reason in your mind other than like eah it's just like it's just like this ew like soup goes around. That's I guess maybe there was a physics thing that I didn't know I guess because when you get served soup it's in a round it's in a bowl so when you put it in the when you go to put it away it should soup goes it around like you know apparently like in school like your spiral notebooks each subject had a color I don't know like I I yeah apparently it's a thing I don't know yeah I think I think math is red have mailed it I think that is OCD but if that's the only you know expression of it if you don't have to tap your foot 16 times before you walk in a building or something. No no no no I'm you might be good. I think I'm relatively normal ish.

SPEAKER_01 43:16

Okay ish just don't hit anybody if you walk into the kitchen and you see soup in a square container just remember that physical violence is not acceptable Agnes. But what if it's in my own household I mean I told you my mom used to hit me with flip-flops.

SPEAKER_02 43:32

Flip-flop I think every culture has that honestly a flip-flop goes the Did y'all have go pick a switch was that a thing that happened in Burkina my mother did what she was growing up and she bowed never to do it to us. Okay she was raised in Tennessee in Memphis um so it's right there on the border of Mississippi and so she like never I would never do that to you but she was heavy handed so we would wish she would hit us with something else other than her hand. Just get it over with like hit me with anything but your hand please um but throw the pillow at me something I'd rather you get a belt get get the switch it cannot worse it cannot hurt more than your hand does but okay.

SPEAKER_01 44:14

It was very normalized in in my household and in my entire family and in the entire region where I grew up uh but it became very easy early on as A father for me to understand that there's there's never a the kids don't need that. It doesn't benefit they need to know what you want them to do and associate that with something positive. And the something negative can this is just my parental advice to two ladies who probably know infinitely more about it than I do, but the consequences need to be positive and negative based on their behavior. And after they start to establish these patterns of good behavior, it's real easy to I've never had to hit my daughter, and it's beautiful. It makes you wonder why the hell my dad need to get beat the shit out of me so much. It's like damn.

SPEAKER_02 45:07

Look how you turned out. I'm like, is that a plus?

SPEAKER_01 45:09

Is that like this is more of the military? No, my dad's he had, I mean, a lot to do with it. I I love him. He's just that's how he was raised. That's how everybody was raised. But the military, and then yeah, I found religion. That kind of made me who I am.

SPEAKER_03 45:27

But uh when my oldest was young, she was she was tough. And someone introduced me to this book about raising a strong-willed child. And I read that book, and I was like, oh my god, I feel so seen. Because every example was like, Were you watching me? Or were you in my house? But it really helped to as a mom or as a daughter? No, as a mom, as a mom raising a kid who was really smart, really strong-willed, and it was just and and from a very early age, she could she can reason really well with logic. And so you would say, I need you to go do this, but why? And you really want to be like, because I fucking said so. But like it doesn't work. And you know how some kids you'll walk into a room and you can say, Hey, that TV is kind of loud, and they'll understand the the messages to turn it down. With my kid, it was like, okay.

SPEAKER_00 46:31

And so that's a statement of fact.

SPEAKER_03 46:36

Right, right. Not telling me to do anything, just stating a fact.

SPEAKER_01 46:40

Yeah, thank you for noticing.

SPEAKER_03 46:41

So the book was really helpful for me to learn, okay, but this is how I need to approach things, these are how we go about when we need something done, how when we want something done, how what the consequences could be, should be, whatever. And and a lot of that really helped. And then as she got older, we focused more on choices, and it would always be like, I'm not gonna tell you what to do. But the same way that the decision is yours, the consequences are yours. So you can make your own choice, but whatever comes along with that afterwards, that's all on you too. Now, do you want my I'll I'll happily give you my advice, I'll tell you what I would do in that situation, but I am not going to tell you what to do because another problem was well, this is you know, this is what you should do, right? Because we all tell our kids things like that. You know, this is the best way to handle it, and then they handle it, and the outcome isn't what they want, and now you're the enemy.

SPEAKER_01 47:44

Yeah, they want mom to save them from the consequences. That's exactly what I told my daughter. I told her that life is just a long series of decisions and consequences and dealing with them. You're either gonna learn from it, you know, or you're not gonna learn from it, you're gonna, you know, screw things up, but that's it's all life is is making decisions. Yeah. And then, you know, riding, riding the wave of consequences. Right, seeing where things lead you.

SPEAKER_03 48:09

So I'm and once you got that message, you know, even as like a teenager, it it really did help because now all of a sudden she wasn't so antagonistic with me.

SPEAKER_01 48:22

It was like, mom, this is like you, like you said, she felt seen. That you, it's not just that you were trying to be mom anymore, you were trying to understand and you wanted her to understand. And I think to me, that's the secret that you want your kid, you want to have decent kids. I've never had to beat my kid. My kid, she always understands. And I I can't imagine a scenario where it would ever happen like that. All you have to do is make sure she understands the consequences of the decisions that she is making. And if she understands them and understands that she can't, you know, so that's you're 100% right. Even as a kid, I've never had to Yeah. You know, we are so it's real easy to break that cycle. You know, it makes you look it looks bit I say it's real easy. I mean shit, just because I'm not sure. Yeah, but uh but yeah, do it really just makes you look back on your own parents going, Why was I picking somebody's switches? Was that really that bad of a kid? You know? And maybe I was, shit.

SPEAKER_03 49:19

Yeah, yeah, but it it's true, you know, like and you know, I tell them like we are a team and I will always, always be on your side. I will always go to bat for you. But also, like, don't make me look like an asshole. Yeah, just make sure I have the full story, yeah, and I will do whatever I can on my end to tell the truth, and and you and I will deal with it later. But in the meantime, like there is no one worse in my house than Mama Bear. So even my husband is like, just watch out for your mama.

SPEAKER_01 49:52

Do whatever mom says. That's a beautiful thing too. How you feeling, Agnes?

SPEAKER_02 49:59

I'm here. I are here, I'm here physically.

SPEAKER_01 50:03

I'm not picking on you, I just don't want you to feel left out.

SPEAKER_02 50:06

No, I am I uh a little bit struggle bus, but I'm okay, I'm here.

SPEAKER_01 50:12

Well you're doing great.

SPEAKER_02 50:13

Oh thank you, thank you. I appreciate that. Oh my god. I love this dude.

SPEAKER_03 50:18

Aside from art and acting and all those creative stuff, I I I don't know, the word escaped me. Passions. What else do you do in your free time? Like what what makes you happy?

SPEAKER_01 50:37

Um during the period where I felt called from Fort Bragg when I was working as a federal contractor. I felt called to God, and that was part of why I ran for Congress, and I that's why I settled in back here and had a series of uh escalating faith crises. So but now I spend the majority of my time, and what gives me the most joy is reading scripture and learning about scripture and learning what it means to be a Christian. I'm also very vocal about America in general and politics in particular. And uh I'm using social media as kind of a void. I'm not trying to sell a book and I'm not trying to run for office. None of that's even in my mind. It's just an expression of me trying to use the blessings that I have been given and the skills that I have and the knowledge that I've accumulated over 46 years of existence and putting it out there in a way that I think expresses truth in an effort to reach my fellow Americans that are reasonable and moral people. How's that for a $500 answer to a five cent question? But what is it? That's your question was, you know, what gives you enjoyment on a day-to-day basis? It's really pursuing truth through those two avenues. Pursuing truth through my my faith and through uh and I don't want to say politics because it sounds so terrible that people automatically think I'm selling something, myself or somebody else, and I'm not. I'm really just talking about how bad things are in America right now. Because I want everybody to try to wake up and see how far gone things really are. But uh that gives me joy just to know that I think that's what God wants from me right now, and the feeling that I'm doing what he wants me to do, it's it's more satisfying than anything else. So that's what gives me joy on a daily basis. Hey, you didn't think I was gonna take it in all those spaces, did you? You thought I was gonna say something like video games. I do like video games, and I love being a father. So I mean, you combine those two things because being a father is my full-time job. That's what I do with the all the non-negotiable time periods of my day are based around being a father, but the the areas that are negotiable that I get to decide what I do, I do those other things. So I mean, my whole day is filled with awesomeness and grace. I got a beautiful daughter that's awesome, and yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:24

So, what kind of video games do you like?

SPEAKER_01 53:26

It's I'm really boring in that respect for any gamers. It's really Call of Duty. That's all I really played in.

SPEAKER_03 53:32

I love Call of Duty.

SPEAKER_01 53:33

I I have the cold the so there's I just downloaded. Do you remember Cold War? They had the zombies version that was it was an open world zombies version. I love it so much. I play it solo by myself, so I'm not online. And I just get it's so awesome. It's just a huge world where you deploy as a Call of Duty soldier and you just kill zombies. It's great, it's all you do, and I mean it's the kind of brainless gaming that you want. It's a it's like Tetris or Mario Brothers. Yeah, you know, I don't need the immersive it's sometimes you do because I played Ghosts of Tsushima, I think it is. It's the jet it's about the samurai that and that was one of those I don't know if it's really called a role-playing game anymore, but it was kind of an immersive storyline that video game nerds might appreciate more. And I enjoyed that, but um mostly it's Call of Duty, isn't that sad? What do you enjoy playing, Lisa?

SPEAKER_03 54:27

Uh so you know, I don't have a lot of time for video games, but Call of Duty, I think it was Black Ops, is the one that I like the most.

SPEAKER_01 54:35

There's been so many.

SPEAKER_03 54:36

Yeah, there's been so many. And Grandpa. There's a new one about to come out, too. Yeah, no. I mean, I the last video game I played was probably Grand Theft Auto, maybe like last year. I was trying to finally finish. I can't get past the final mission.

SPEAKER_01 54:50

Is it number five? You would uh Liberty City.

SPEAKER_03 54:54

I still haven't beat City. I still haven't beat that one.

SPEAKER_01 54:57

That's back. What is that? The PS4 versus PS3.

SPEAKER_03 55:01

Yeah. I'm up to the final mission. And I just, you know, the the boat, it just gets me every time. And I'm like, I can't. So I I keep trying.

SPEAKER_01 55:10

Yeah, that it gets to the point um with any video game that you're like, man, is this really worth the frustration that it's causing me in my life, right?

SPEAKER_03 55:18

Yeah, which is why it's been this long. Because every sort of year later, I'm like, all right, let me try again, give it a few tries. Fuck this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:31

But I like game console I had was I I think it was a Sega Genesis.

SPEAKER_01 55:38

It was I had a Genesis? I I don't remember any of the names of the games, but there was one where a guy would float all around the screen and he was shooting at like alien monsters. You don't know that game, do you? I don't remember that one.

SPEAKER_02 55:49

I remember I think it was Sonic. I remember playing Sonic. Oh, I used to go to the the the car service across the street from where I lived. Remember before Uber, there's car services. And they had the arcades there. So we would just kick I I would kick ass in Mortal Kombat. I was your Mortal Kombat was good. Chun Lee. Chun.

SPEAKER_01 56:10

That's Street Fighter.

SPEAKER_02 56:11

Street Fighter, sorry, my phone. Street Fighter, Street Fighter.

SPEAKER_01 56:14

I had to save you from the nerds because they would be.

SPEAKER_03 56:18

This one had Sonya. That was Motocombat. That's who I used to play with. Sonia.

SPEAKER_04 56:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:24

Yeah, I yeah, all cates. But other than that, I don't I don't that's the last console I had. I don't do play video games. I s I people look at me like I have six heads.

SPEAKER_03 56:33

I'm like, I I just you know what we like these days? Uh the Jackbox games. I don't know if you remember from like probably like the early 2000s, the you don't know jack, and it was a trivia game, and you would put it on your computer, but now you can play via the internet.

SPEAKER_04 56:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 56:49

So we just have them download it onto like the smart TV, and then we all you know, you you log in with your phone and then you just play like the interactive games. Yeah, and and so it's like a really good way to keep the family together while playing video games and just having a good laugh, you know. It's just it's just good fun.

SPEAKER_01 57:10

You gave me a great idea. I'm gonna do that. I haven't talked to my brothers in a while, and I'm not gonna use that game you said, but that's a great idea.

SPEAKER_03 57:17

Yeah, you can I'm I think a lot of people use like Discord to do them also when they're not in the same room.

SPEAKER_01 57:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:25

I'm not sure how that works. But I'm pretty sure. I figured out though.

SPEAKER_01 57:30

The internet there's a lot of good stuff on that internet.

SPEAKER_03 57:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:34

You ever been on that internet?

SPEAKER_01 57:35

There's a lot of good stuff on that.

SPEAKER_02 57:37

Once or twice. I've maybe used the internet once or twice before. I don't know. Not often. Never leads to technology. Yeah. A lot of good stuff. Yeah. Just a little bit. Just a little something satin. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:50

I'm empty on my coffee. Can you girls mind if I go get some more?

SPEAKER_02 57:53

We don't mind at all.

SPEAKER_01 57:54

Okay. Well, I didn't want to mess up the recording and have any big eat.

SPEAKER_02 57:59

Oh, that was quick. Yeah, it was really quick.

SPEAKER_01 58:01

Yeah, my kitchen's right there. It's not a big, yeah, it's not a big apartment at all.

SPEAKER_02 58:05

I usually take more time trying to get up than I do after.

SPEAKER_01 58:10

That's right. That was another reason I asked if I could get up because y'all know y'all had to know that I mean, y'all gonna see my big butt and I'm gonna make some old man noise as I'm getting up. Wanted to prepare y'all for what was about to happen.

SPEAKER_03 58:21

Oh how long did you serve in the military?

SPEAKER_01 58:25

Twenty years, right at 20 years. It was like 20 years in one day. Oh, wow. Uh, because the last year and a half-ish that I was in the military, I had a pretty bad mental breakdown. And it took a long time for me to get settled in a way that I could make it to my 20 years. But I was so close to the end that everybody's like, we can't, you know, this guy's gotta get his retirement. It's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_03 58:54

That sounds like was that always the goal? Was to s to be in the military for the 20 years, or no, when okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:02

When I joined, I thought I was just gonna get some job skills and get out, and then um went in the military and kind of got a taste for that life. My first assignment was over in Eder Oberstein, Germany. You know, I'm a redneck from Mississippi and I'm getting to see the Trier is the oldest city in Germany with uh Constantine's throne room. So kind of fell in love with the romance of travel and everything. Uh so by the time I first re- and I was over there for 9-11, which triggered a whole, you know, patriotic side of me. Uh, but I had to make a decision at the six-year mark to stay in, and then I had to decide again right at the 10-year mark. And by the time I got to 10 years, I was like, I mean, just do 20, you know, do 20, you get the retirement, the healthcare. Makes life much easier. And luckily enough, I didn't have a DOD that was gonna get I was the process of getting out of the military um is not as easy as they made it for me. And I'm aware of that. So they took care of me very much because they yeah. I could talk all about my mental health troubles, but I don't want to make things uncomfortable, but it kind of seems like I I did that already. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:16

No, no, no, it's it's actually the opposite. Like, I don't want you to talk about something that you're not comfortable talking about.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:22

Yeah, I'm okay. It's just um I mean, I think that it's I think mental health tri, especially for soldiers, it's something that they should be taking very seriously. Um, because what ends up happening with a lot of people who don't process their trauma, you know, depending on how we're d discussing that word, whatever that means these days, but people who don't know what's going on inside of their own mind, if you've got some deep dark trauma, then it's going to appear in different ways of your life. And if you're not actively trying to identify that and aim it or, you know, incorporate it into the broader aspect of your cognition, you know, I'm using all these words, but you get what I'm saying, right? It's everybody I say everybody, every every military member who's been in for an extended period of time, or anybody really who's got some trauma in their life that they don't really want to talk to anybody about. It doesn't seem to bother you, you know, but uh mental health is one of those things that especially nowadays we all need to be taken very seriously because that's what happened to me is I didn't deal with anything and just kept pushing it off and pushing it off and focusing like a laser on the successes that I was trying to succeed, or successes that I was trying to achieve. Um and yeah, snapped. Just had probably what would be called a nervous breakdown. And yeah. But the military took care of me, the VA took care of me, and they gave me a lot of time, a lot of chemicals, a lot of uh avenues to fix all the loose screws, and now here we are.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:04

Do you Lisa? Do you find that there's there's more of an awareness and um and like a focus on making sure that mental health is included as far as the military goes? But if if you if that's something that you can't answer, that's totally fine.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:22

No, I'd love to talk about that. That's another thing that veterans should really be talking about more. So there there are there are re I think that there's definitely more than there used to be. I was in the military, like I said, I joined in the year 2000. So compared to when I joined the military, there are a buttload more mental health resources. Uh but having said that, the military by its nature is not designed to set it's not designed to address things like mental health. Mental health problems are the most individualistic problem that can exist because it's literally a problem that's going on inside your mind and nowhere else. Okay, so the military by its nature is designed to deal with people in groups so that whenever there's a problem with mental health, their first thing is to say, okay, well, let's put all the soldiers in a room and let's give them a PowerPoint presentation. And then we're going to say, you can call this guy if you need to talk to somebody. And they consider that to be resources that are tossed into mental health. And the reason is that the calculation doesn't enter their head that each one of these people having mental health problems are having an individual set of problems that requires an individual set of help. And it it's a difficult thing to address with organizations like the VA and the DOD because that level of thinking about resources doesn't, it's not anywhere in the system. Nobody, there's no, there's no block for it on the form. You know what I'm saying? So uh it can be very difficult as a soldier, even with all these mental health resources, to understand. How do you how do you say this? To understand how to go about addressing those individual needs. If I'm having trouble right now and I call this person who is the designated mental health professional, I feel like my problem should be so bad that I have to talk to somebody. You know, I you don't go to a doctor unless your foot's broken. You don't do it just because it kind of hurts a little bit. But with mental mental health, that little ache in your foot, you know, it's it's gonna do that for 20 years and progressively get worse. And that's the side of mental health that nobody wants to be that person who, oh, I can't handle this pain in my foot. I'm gonna go see a doctor. Nobody wants to be that person in the military that says, oh, I can't deal with my problems, I gotta go talk to somebody. Um, because it's a very individual set of problems, you feel that it betrays the team. It betrays the team concept for you to be focusing on your individual problems. And that conflicts with the nature of an organization like the military, so it can be very difficult. Um, the solution to that, unfortunately, is more PowerPoint presentations because it means soldiers have to understand that their individual set of problems cannot be addressed by things like the military. They they have to actively be going out and handling their individual mental health problems by seeking counseling, by, you know, exploring whatever's going on inside of them in various ways. There's things like cognitive behavioral therapy, there's so many resources out there for any soldier that's you know, especially in the DOD or the VA, but it takes an active participation that requires them to push aside this idea that I can handle my own problems. I'm not a weakness for the team. You know, I'm Billy Badass soldier boy. So I am Billy Badass soldier boy. I was waiting for what I was waiting for. Didn't want nobody to get it twisted.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:57

So in my you know, past life as a doula, and if anyone is wondering, it's just like a labor support person, it's non-medical, it's education, it's support. Um so one of the things that I studied, and um I studied this like in school, but also drawing on the experience is that how a lot of times postpartum depression and even psychosis. can go unnoticed because once a woman has a baby, yeah, you know, the whole focus is on the baby now. But who is the one provider that the woman sees when it's the pediatrician? You're taking that baby from newborn, you know, you're you're probably gonna see this provider every every few months. And so we, you know, in the classroom, like we one of the topics that we brought up was, well, how do we get women access at that point? Because that is where the the woman is not going to go and see a psychiatrist because the societal pressure is no I this is my baby. I should be able to handle it. You know, this is normal lack of sleep, these feelings, this, that, whatever. But nobody really knows what's going on in her head or in her home. The only person again that she's seeing is a pediatrician. So how do you blend? And I don't know if if if it ever happened in anywhere but but the thought process was well let's make it accessible there. Let's make sure that these pediatricians know how to identify stuff. They can ask they can have providers who are also in the office who can just have a conversation but but identify any red flags or any additional support that the woman needs without it making it seem like she's failing as a mom because nobody wants to be a failure. So all that to say that if if somebody in the military consulted you and said well you know you are an asset because you've been through the military, you've been through these things how could you implement something like that? Like is is there an access point somewhere where any given soldier any day would never even have to say I think I'm struggling with this but would have access to someone whether it's routine or not to just be able to have that conversation where they can pick up on things and and get that person help before it's you know while it's still just a hurting foot and not a broken foot.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:39

I love the way I love that is that a is that a real thing or is that a suggestion that you were talking about with the pediatrician being a mental kind of a you didn't say this, but what I'm under I was thinking well it would be great if pediatricians could routinely be trained in mental health specifically that was what the paper was about.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:56

Right that that's what we were writing is okay like it and it was just for class it implemented or is it just an idea?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:02

Just curious.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:03

No it was just the idea that we had a great idea. Love it well thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:07

Um and so I I think in a perfect world the person you would be describing is the soldier's sergeant. The soldier has someone that is immediately responsible for that soldier's accountability their training their welfare the morale uh they're the ones that conduct the the room inspections they're the ones if you're late for work they're the ones that have to deal with it. I think in a perfect military world that sergeant is that person who is doing that that they know their soldiers well enough to know that man this guy's been bummed for a while and you know I I can't remember the last time I saw him laughing with the guys you know and he can start to identify those things. And I do think that aspect of military leadership has also improved as a resource because we've become so and I say we've been six years for me but they've become so educated in mental health that it's become an important part of the job itself. Whether or not the the soldiers respond to that concern or that you know I don't want to call it an analysis but you know an assessment whether or not they respond to that assessment with positive action is still ultimately up to that soldier. And I think it's the same with the the the postpartum mothers um but I love the way you phrase that because in a lot of ways that's what a good army sergeant is also doing there they're the task of the pediatrician is to examine the baby make sure the baby you know they're treating the baby. The task for the soldier might be to download a connex or to take a hill or to dig a ditch but during that process as the sergeant is walked walk as the sergeant is working with them as the pediatrician is examining the baby they can also do this additional thing which is to you know evaluate and analyze the mental health of the the person under their care. So in a perfect world that's what it would happen but I don't think that happens very much for the same reason that everything else in the military is kind of gone to crap is because those that level of teamwork and supervision is not emphasized as much as the the data and the checking the block and the forms and you you you hear me keep I hate forms it's just about like figuring out what the access points and how you can just take kind of the already operating system but be able to apply that individual attention where where you're not even taking a person out of their normal routine.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:56

You know that mom who's going to the pediatrician she's already gonna do that. And so if there's a access point there you've just found it and in your case with the sergeant that's already an access point. That's already some somebody that they are reporting to and I just you know I just feel like it it's always something that I kind of thought in my head but I'll be honest I don't have a lot of experience with the military I don't know I can't sit here and say I understand how it all works because that's asked me anything. Yeah but I did I mean that's what I'm saying. So having you and appreciating how candid you are I'm I'm glad that I was able to ask you that question because I feel like so many people struggle with mental health and then it's the stigma of you can't ask for help because you don't want to be seen as less than but I always say it takes a strong person to confront their mental health that you know that's not for the weak because my mind it's not even that there's that I don't want a bad mouth masculinity but there is a masculine urge to say that I don't need help.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:04

I I'm stronger than this and everything and women do it in my mind it's not even about that. It's about the regular maintenance duties. It's like brushing your teeth. It's like it was it that Rick and Morty episode where uh the psychiatrist lectured Rick about you know doing things that are the daily maintaining of life they're not an adventure they they're not fun. That's not something that you know you can you can't do it so wrong that you'll die. Brushing your teeth and wiping your ass is just something you have to do. And mental health is another one of those things no matter what else you think about the human condition, we are living in a unique time of history where every surface is blinking with an advertisement and you know there's chemicals in the food there's chemicals in the water. So your mind is not immune to the effects of all these unique conditions that you're in and you start throwing in horrible things that happen to us when we're kids or horrible things that happen to us when we're soldiers. I mean it's just one of those things you have to take care of. It's not something about being strong or weak it's about doing what you're supposed to do. And that's one of the things you're supposed to do is take care of yourself and your mind.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:18

That's the way I try to think of it because it's not it's not about strength or weaknesses well I agree with you but I feel like the becomes that thin that if you seek therapy you're weak. Like only weak people need to go and and that's that's how I meant it. I don't believe that it's a weakness if you go to therapy but I think that that's a common misconception is that only weak people go to therapy and I feel it is quite the opposite to sit there and bear your soul and have someone confront you with the things that are hurting you or would help you and you have to just sit there and be like yes I agree I do not do this well or I should do this and I want to do this and I can't do you know it's not an easy thing to sit there and and expose that.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:05

So you know but like everything else you're gonna get you're gonna get out of it what you put into it. Oh of course yeah yeah yeah I didn't think you were saying that by the way I I knew I yeah no no no you brought it was a good point I wanted to address that that point but I didn't think that yeah I knew you weren't saying that.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:21

Okay. All right yeah no I don't I don't I I also don't want to offend anyone because I don't yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:27

I do who do you want me to offend Lisa? I'll offend them right now let's tell that's another thing you get used to when you're trying to honor truth and grace and everything and it's like I want to care about your feelings but like if we're gonna sit here and lie to each other if you're gonna get mad at me for asking how you said how you doing man and I said I'm fine how are you if you're gonna get mad at me for answering that question I'd I'd rather a while you're like just get mad. I don't care.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:54

Yeah I'd I'd rather hate the answer than have you lie to me personally.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:58

Uh you know yes but that's just I'm that offensive guy. I'm okay with it.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:04

I know who I am okay I say that all the time she does do you have before we wrap up do you have any last words for our listeners?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:16

Um yeah I think I've already preached to everybody in various ways haven't I I want so I don't know if you need another gospel if you do I could give you one but uh I would say first thank y'all for doing this um it's such a a pleasure to be able to get together with two reasonable lovely people and have stupid discussions about art and you know all of these various things these aren't the the things you always get to talk about. So I do appreciate y'all hosting me and for doing this in general. Other than that I've got social media matt dot hasty378 I think it is I have uh Instagram and Facebook I'm not selling anything you know I do get I get paid for content on Facebook but I don't make much we can put all those link in the notes they're two digits.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:05

Okay something helps right yeah exactly so but other than that yeah just uh I love this country I hope everybody else does too and if you do start paying attention I think that these conversations also can show that you and I probably would never have met I mean and Agnes also right like we probably never would have met each other outside of podcasting world and and I think that this can be said for almost everybody you probably have more in common with someone than differences but when you come here it's like a clean slate and the conversation begins and there's no baggage. And so for me that's one of the things that I like about Spotlight is because regardless of whether you know you and I might be on opposite sides of anything else like we can just have a conversation and and and just the the face to face helps as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:05

The face to face once you've you're putting a a face to it and we can interact with each other in a way that we understand you're a person. You're not a name in a comment section. Okay you're not you're not a social media profile you are a person and you're a look at these two lovely ladies. You know what I'm saying? How many times did we doesn't matter what else we disagree on we've recognized that we are all people and by seeing the faces and putting all that to a name I think you said it was an audio thing. So uh hopefully it came across in the audio too but um I love that that I had the ability to meet so many interesting and unique people as I traveled I more than two dozen countries I got to see in all my travels and I'm privileged and honored to extend that to these two um additions to my catalog of wonderful people that I've met over the years.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:01

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:02

Yeah we appreciate you taking the time to you know just hang out with us talk to us and and let us get to know you a little bit better because you fascinating and um and I'm sure that we've barely even scratched the surface the surface but well I can ramble on anytime you want you just you schedule me again I'll come on and I will rant and rave and next time y'all ask me look y'all gonna find my social media and y'all are going to be oh my god how can he believe this and y'all are going to want to yell at me and that's cool. Just let me know.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:31

Y'all can yell at me people are allowed people are allowed to disagree with each other.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:36

I don't know if anybody has ever heard that before I know people disagree and not want to sh kill each other.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:43

Yes that's okay that's expected that's we are all individual people inside of these all individualistic cognition thing I was rambling about. We're all individual people so there's it's ridiculous I can't be in a room with my mother and get along how am I going to get along with everybody else we're supposed to disagree with each other so it's okay. Right if if we all were the same we'd all be like stormtroopers yeah I don't want to get along with everybody some of y'all are stupid I say that on a daily basis I don't know how to are you I'm gonna let you close the show I'm not gonna try to close your show.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:26

All right so we thank our guests and everyone can visit essencesips.com for all the ways to find out more about our show our guests any past guests maybe future guests you can get in touch with us you can send messages to us if you want us to forward them to Matthew we remind everyone to drink responsibly and not to drink and drive and until next time I'm Lisa and I Agnes and I'm Matt and we are out of here see you later bye