Spotlight on Melissa Algood

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Hi, and welcome to this episode of Assassin's Sips Spotlight. Today we have another special guest with us. We will be talking to author Melissa Allgood. And I'm one of your hosts. I'm Lisa. And I'm Agnes.

SPEAKER_05 0:26

Well, you're sipping on Lisa.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Wait, let's introduce Melissa. I forgot. Cotton Greenhead stable. Welcome, Melissa.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Hello. Hello, everybody. It's so great to be here.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Thank you. What are you sipping on today?

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Uh I actually have multiple beverages. I have water, I have Sprite, and I did just finish my English breakfast tea.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

So Oh, I'm not the only one with multiple bref beverages. I have water and I have coffee. And there's nothing in the coffee today except coffee. It's mid of morning. Somebody text me at like 6 30 in the morning. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I'm calling you out. And it wasn't anything important. You want to tell them why you text me three times at 6 30 in the morning?

SPEAKER_05 1:23

The results of my New York Times puzzles that I did this morning. Because she texts me usually at During the week when we're both getting up for work.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

I know. Not on Saturday. But it's silent. I figured you'd be having it silent, so you wouldn't even listen. You wouldn't even hear it. My do not disturb goes off at 6 30. You text me at like 6 33. I heard it. It's fine. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry.

SPEAKER_05 1:55

Well, my body doesn't know it's Saturday, so there's that. I'm just drinking iced coffee. I'm being a good girl today. Nothing's in it. Normally I drink Kahlua with iced coffee. Today is strictly iced coffee.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

Today, yeah. We're gonna we're we're gonna be our brains are gonna be connected today. We'll we'll see.

SPEAKER_05 2:16

Or not. Or not.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

All right. One of the things that we do on Spotlight is we put our guests in the silly seat and we ask them a silly question. So I'm gonna go first. Are you ready?

SPEAKER_01 2:31

I'm ready.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Okay. Which would be the nicest if animals could only talk?

SPEAKER_01 2:42

If animals could only talk, which would be the nicest? Hmm. I mean, I wanna say dogs. Um, I've never I am more of a black cat person, so that's why I think that cats would not be. Yeah, we both have black cats.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

I think I oh I might I techni have a tuxedo cat.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

I have one of those.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

Yeah. I'm I'm I'm black cat adjacent.

SPEAKER_00 3:07

Tuxedo are the best. Can I just say they are the best?

SPEAKER_01 3:11

The she is uh the love of my life. I just love her so much, but uh I do think dogs would be the nicest if they could talk. I also think there's a strong possibility they might be on the dumber scale. I'm not, I don't know. I just feel like dogs are kind of pure love. I I always make a joke, you know, with uh because as we're recording this, you know, the election is up nearing us. I'm always like, oh, you should vote for me because everyone's gonna get ice cream and puppies. Because I really think that that would solve a lot of problems. So um I I really do think that puppies would be the nicest, or dogs in general.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Yeah, yeah. I think that's a fair assessment. Yeah, good car.

SPEAKER_05 3:52

I don't know why I always thought giraffes would be the nicest. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

Yeah, I don't know why maybe they don't have a lot of friends all the way up there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm lonely, love me.

SPEAKER_05 4:02

You know what I mean? Oh, yeah, I see everything that has happened, and I'm just chilling up here. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 4:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You could definitely get all the gossip from the giraffe, though, if you think about it.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

The giraffe, I think, yeah, I'd be chilling with that giraffe.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

I need a giraffe, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

Because I do love to gossip, it's one of my top three favorite activities.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

Yeah, I Agnes could tell you, like, when there's drama, I'm like, I want to know all the details, but when it's my own, I'm like, no, fuck drama. I don't want any drama unless it's somebody else's, and then I'm all like, so tell me more.

SPEAKER_01 4:39

Yeah. And then I always in my books and stuff, I have a lot of violence and a lot of strife. But in my normal life, I'm like, oh, I just went to the library today and just had a nice breakfast of scrambled eggs. It's I'm pretty basic and boring, but yeah, so I definitely feel that too.

SPEAKER_00 4:57

Yeah, that sounds a lot like my life. What'd you do today? I worked and then I watched some TV.

SPEAKER_05 5:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

And yeah, and then I went to bed and that was it.

SPEAKER_05 5:07

Fed the doll. Sometimes we share the meals we make, sometimes a little kick in our day about, well, I cook this today. Uh oh, I actually cooked. There's that.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Yeah, that's that's when my Instagram is pretty boring because it's like, well, what do I do? I like how many times did you want to see me showing you that I'm watching like Law and Order? Uh it's not that exciting.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

There's only so much lost content I can put on my page without people being pissed off or something. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

Yeah. Um, I have a confession.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

When I saw that you were an author, I was I was intrigued because Agnes and I each in our own way have toyed with the idea of writing. Um and so, well, we don't usually interview anybody, but I do have a question because I'm really curious as to how you came to the field and what the journey has been like for you. Because I I would love to be on that journey myself.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Oh, I mean, uh, I don't know who said it. I just read this quote somewhere, so I'm just gonna paraphrase it, but you don't, and I do believe it's true, you don't really become a writer. You're a writer because you have no other option. Um so uh there are definitely, even in this, even in this discussion right now, there are voices in my head and scenes in my head that uh I want to write down and I want to put down. And um I know when I was younger, there wasn't really anything too spectacular about me. Like I'm very, I was very pretty little girl and stuff, but you know, then I was in middle school and then I was disgusting. But uh no, but uh I just middle school sucks for everybody. Middle school's horrible. Um, but yeah, I uh I noticed that when I would write things, adults would be interested in it and they would be like, wow, that's actually pretty cool, and that's a different way of thinking about stuff. And I also really enjoyed reading. I was reading all of the Oprah Book Club's books, so I was really a voracious reader. And um so I I really just started writing my first book because I'd met another writer who was I'm a hairstylist, and she was she caught me writing poetry in the back, and she's like, Oh, you should come to my critique circle. You read 10 pages of your work, and then people give you constructive criticism. I was like, that sounds like my fucking worst nightmare. So don't sign me up.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

I I've written stuff, and like the only person who has read it is Agnes. Yeah, because it's yeah, you're the only person the stuff that I sent you, you're the only person who's looked at it besides me and Stella. Stella's my dog. Um I'm I'm terrified of something like that. But I'm sorry to interrupt you. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

Oh no, no, no, it's okay. I mean, it's true. Uh, but then she kind of tricked me into going to this. And um, I got there, and it was ever since then I've been in some sort of critique circle, and it's been at least a decade. Golly, I want to say I was probably about 25 or 26, and I'm 40 now.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

Um, not that far apart.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

Yeah, yeah. That's that's also why I like Yellow's podcast because I'm like, oh my gosh, I we're right about the same age.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

I'll be 45 next month.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

Yeah, oh yeah, girl.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

Oh, I just turned 45. She's an old lady. Yeah, she's a whole month older than me.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

Like six weeks.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

Well, that six weeks is pretty important, I feel like.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

Well, you know, especially growing up, but yes, not so much, but it's coming again.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

She got to do all the cool stuff a little earlier.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

So yeah, it's funny how that flips, though, right? Like when you were in school, you know, it was cooler to be older, and now the older you get, the more you're like, ha ha, I'm younger. Ha ha.

unknown 8:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Again, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03 9:02

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

I can't shut my brain off.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

No, I I feel the pair.

SPEAKER_05 9:07

I'm just sitting here with the popcorn, like, okay, let's see what else Lisa says.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

No, no, but I want to hear her speak, Agnes. Stop interrupting her.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

But uh, so I went to these critique circles, and I actually the first story I ever brought there um is about I'm dyslexic. And um, oh, you two, yeah. It's uh so I wrote uh, you know what, I mean, I think it was maybe five, eight pages, I don't remember, but it was about me basically realizing that I was dyslexic because we were playing a game of hangman and the teacher was using all of our names. And I literally had not caught on at all, at all, at all, at all. And then finally they were down to one name and they were like, Melissa, what is it? And I was like, girl, I don't know. And then the teacher was like, Oh, this is because it was my own name that I could not recognize. So I wrote a story about that and then about learning how to read. Um, and uh ever since then, I really caught the bug, and basically I just started writing stories that I wanted to read. Um, and it was very selfish, and I continue to do that. Um, so to be not think there's anything wrong with that.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

That's not selfish. Yeah, I mean, I do think so.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

Well, I've been out in the industry in some form or fashion. Now, granted, I'm only in, you know, I live here in Houston, in the Houston area, so it's really only been in this area. But uh, but yeah, there are definitely some people that will write things that maybe they don't feel very genuinely about. And you can kind of sense that when you're talking to them about their stuff, that they're like, oh, well, I put this out basically to get popularity or money or whatever. And honestly, that is the wrong avenue to go down because yeah, it's very difficult to sell a book, even if the content is exceptional. Um, and of course, ironically, things that some people might deem as garbage are highly popular. But uh, but that's also really the eye of the beholder, you know. I think my husband is very handsome, but he might not be for everybody. So um, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

But that's probably where it's the most important, right? He's not for everybody, yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Very true, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

But uh imagine having to walk down the street with like a big stick, like no, he's mine.

SPEAKER_01 11:51

Yeah, exactly. I know, oh my gosh, and also, yeah, I wouldn't, yeah, yeah. I I would I would be in insecure and stuff. So I like that my man is my I mean.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

I think that I saw a picture of him on your Instagram, and I mean, if if that's your husband, I mean he's adorable. So oh thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

Thank you. It's okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

I'm in New Jersey.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

I yeah, I'm guys, don't worry. I'm from Maryland originally, so I kind of feel the the vibe too.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

Um I'm not from New Jersey. Hold on, I need to clarify this. I am not from Jersey, I just live here now, but okay.

SPEAKER_05 12:30

I just sleep and pay rent there. I just sleep and pay. I want to try to push off my insecurities when I marry Jason Momoa. I'll try to worry, you know, I'll try to like push those down.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

That would be God's work, and I and I think you're the woman for it, Agnes. Yeah. Who doesn't know it yet? I mean, hey, until he makes yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:51

You're already married, Lisa. Sorry. Who told you to find love at 16? That's your fault.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

I don't have to get married again. I just want him. Yeah. Alex could like just take a few walks or something. Come back next week. I would say that right to his face. It's fine. Um I read one of your books because I was I I I enjoy reading. I don't have a lot of time to read. Um I read Everything That Counts.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

Oh, okay, cool.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

And it was in it was taken in in Maryland, in Annapolis. Is that where you're from?

SPEAKER_01 13:31

Yes, that's my hometown. Um, I moved around a lot as a kid, but I do still kind of consider Annapolis my hometown. And honestly, I've lived in Houston longer than I've lived anywhere, but I still don't consider myself a Texan, really. But uh, but yeah, that was that's honestly, even though it's very different from everything else I've written, I think that's actually my favorite book.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

It was so cute. It I enjoyed it. I mean, obviously I'm not like a young adult, but yeah, yeah, I thought it was a great read. And I I've been to Maryland, oh, I don't know how many times. Um, my aunt used to live in Bowie. Okay. So I've only been to Annapolis once, but I I was like, I think I could kind of get the feel enough. Um but it was such a cute story, and then I was looking at the back, and you put a playlist, and I was like, this is the coolest thing I've ever seen.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

Oh man, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

I've never seen that in a book before.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

I I actually do see it in a lot of books now. I think they're copying me.

SPEAKER_00 14:34

That's it.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

But I honestly I honestly put nearly as much into the playlist as I do character development and everything. Um because not only are the characters often mentioning music, like in everything that counts, the main character is obsessed with Weezer. Right. So there's a lot to do with the band Weezer.

SPEAKER_00 14:55

And I've seen them on concert. I just they opened for somebody else. I don't even remember who they opened for, but but like I saw I got to see them.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

Yeah, they they came to Houston not too long ago, and my husband and I just saw them.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

But uh when I when I saw them, it was like it was back in the we're going back like almost 20 years.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Back in the day, I know. Well, they've been a band for a minute, and that's honestly one of the reasons why I chose them because that particular book set in 2003.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

Okay, right.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

Yeah. Um, but the reason why I link music so tightly with my characters is it's almost like a touchstone where it's like I can be off in the nethers, but then I'm like, wait a minute, I have to remember who this character is. And then sometimes they'll be like, well, let me listen to their song. The song that when I hear it, I'm like, this is that character. And Weezer was a good choice for Blake because I wanted a band that was geeky, one might say. Um, but also something popular enough that this kid that wasn't super into music like me would have heard it and it wouldn't be, you know, um I wanted it to not be so hard to understand, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

But um, I really like that. I really like that. So when you were incorporating the playlist, was it something that you researched songs and then kind of had the characters form in that image, or was it the opposite way? Like what or was it just like you were writing a music was on and it inspired you? I don't know, I'm just curious because that's new to me. So I'm just really curious.

SPEAKER_01 16:36

It's a little bit of both. Um, I'll take it for instance, like I had a care I wrote a romantic thriller series, and for the main character I picked for the main male character, I picked Johnny Cash. And I was just like, that's his vibe. He is Johnny Cash, like, or he thinks he is, you know, but that's his vibe. So I was like, and that just helped me get into his mindset. So even though he did technically listen to Johnny Cash and he kind of liked Johnny Cash, it wasn't like an obsession for him. He did it if it if he never heard a Johnny Cash song, he could have lived with his life. But congruently with everything that counts, um there is again, I was setting it in 2003. Um, because then I could use Annapolis as an environment and be like, I knew stuff was there. You know, I wasn't, I didn't have to look it up. I was like, I lived it, I knew where stuff was. But um around that time, Weezer had released the album I believe make believe. Um, and oh my gosh, yeah, I think that's the one in the book that you yeah, but it literally just happened to be happenstance that that album was released during like the quote unquote correct time for my story. So I needed him to hear this album, and I was like, this is freaking crazy. And there's a um, there's a song on that album called A Perfect Situation, and when I was listening to the song, I was like, holy shit, did I fucking make this up? Because that song was essentially the epitome of this character. But I'd already created this character and I was already like kind of in the edits and really finishing the book. And I was like, what are the odds that this album would happen to come out? Um, and I was like, it is almost meant to be. It was Kismet. Um, that I happened to pick that band out of all the bands, and that they just happened to in 2004, in the springish time, come out with that album that had that song that was the epitome of my character. But again, I mean, I really do have where I'm like, this just feels more like the vibe of the character. So um, and it's actually kind of funny how people take it so differently. Cause in my sci-fi series, I have a character that's really obsessed with Justin Bieber, and people are like, fuck Bieber. I every every person who seems to read this book is like, I hate Justin Bieber. And I was like, honestly, that was a little bit the point that this girl is obsessed with like the poppyist of pop and how you kind of hear it everywhere, and it's an earworm. And at the time, especially when I was writing it, um, it was around the time Justin Bieber came out with like lonely. And some people were like, Oh, well, you know, he's a really good musician, but like, whatever. I just, I'm not down with him. So I kind of almost wanted that feeling when they were reading this character to be like, well, you know, I like Justin Bieber, but I don't want to like hang out with him. Um, although I think I think that'd be an awesome day, to be frank, uh, to have an afternoon with and be like, dude, take me wherever you're whatever's happening. I want to go see what's happening. But uh, so it's a little bit of both. And now it's just really become where I can't write unless I'm listening to the music. But it does get on my husband's nerves a lot. Because, for instance, the book I'm working on now, it's set um in December. So I do, I am sometimes listening to Christmas music because they're outside, it's set in Baltimore, they're in the inner harbor, it's all decorated.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

And one day my wife I I know the inner harbor. I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've been there plenty of times. Yeah. But uh You know there used to be I'm sorry to interrupt. You're good. There used to be a tiki bar, like in I I can't remember. There was like a 7-Eleven, and you you pull into the parking lot, and it's where like now there's um like high-rise buildings and stuff like fancy, but this is like pre-pandemic. There's a tiki bar, and I went there with my friends, and as we're sitting there, there was the Dharma symbol with the numbers.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

Shut the front door.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

Yeah, I so and I took a picture. Oh no, no, no. Actually, I don't think it had the numbers, I think it just had the dharma symbol. And I was thinking, I was sitting there and it was like the summer, and I'm like, damn, I should do a Lost rewatch.

SPEAKER_02 20:55

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 20:56

Asked Agnes and was like, Do you ever watch Lost? And boom, the podcast was. Oh, what was the catalyst for you asking me? Me sitting in the Tiki bar with Britney. Drag me into it. Oh wow. Yes. We were there with a couple of other friends, and the sticker was on one of the posts at the bar. And that's what made me think, like, damn, I haven't watched Lost in a long time. I should do a rewatch and dragged Agnes along with me.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

Well, that's wonderful because that's how and screaming. I know, I gotta admit, I was listening to one of your spotlights, and you were interviewing someone, and she said it's actually kind of funny that Agnes is almost hate watching it. I am the biggest Lost fan, and I do think it's hilarious how you're kind of like F this and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:42

But he shows up every week, so I can't. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:44

Yeah, I do worry, like in hindsight, I kind of worry about like, I hope I'm not pushing people away, but I hate this show.

SPEAKER_00 21:53

Um I I think it's fun to have another take because Exactly, yeah, yeah. You see things that I don't. And let me tell you, while I am all about the lore and the characters and and just sitting there like you know, Agnes is is watching it with a more critical.

SPEAKER_04 22:14

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 22:15

And she's way better at being able to to process things sometimes than I ever was because I'm just sitting there like Okay, just enjoy, just watch, just ooh, what's happening? And she's like, Well, this is why it's happening, because I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 22:34

Whenever we start to record about an episode, you have like a like a test for me and answer me all these questions. So I'm like, I have to watch it. No, I'm gonna get tested on it the next day.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

I can't keep you on your toes.

SPEAKER_05 22:46

Yeah, yeah. I can enjoy it because you're gonna test me on it. Now just make now just I got to the point where I just start making shit up. And then lo and behold, lo and behold, she's brought some tests.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

Yeah, as I'm editing, I keep a list, and so and then I'm like, oh, she said okay, and I write it down so that I could tell her about it later.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

But yeah, there are definitely some time to piss you off. There were definitely some time to piss her off, and then I'm like, okay. And I'm like, oh my gosh, she's so she's so on it. And when I was watching it when it was airing, I at every single time where Agnes is like, oh, I saw that coming, I remember distinctly being like on the edge of my seat, shocked. And Agnes is like, yeah, Agnes is like, oh yeah, whatever. The only thing I can say is that when we were watching it 20 years ago, there are shows like, for instance, Breaking Bad, that completely, I mean, I don't think a show like Breaking Bad could have existed before something like Lost. So where it was like, because I mean, the when they came in for that idea, my God, to be listening to that, where he's like, I'm gonna take a super straight lace dude and make him basically a mop boss.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

The biggest meth dealer in all.

SPEAKER_01 24:01

I mean, that is the most insane concept ever, but I love that show and it makes perfect sense. And now you see a lot of that anti-hero stuff.

SPEAKER_05 24:10

But I think that's another thing. We I've had, we've had, well, I've had 20 plus years of TV viewing and the TV breakdown or what the writers want, like that has completely changed. Exactly. So you I'm used to the crazy stuff. You we you we're getting used to like, yeah, this is gonna happen because it's happening on every other show, or the thought process has happened. I guess if I watched it 20 plus years ago, I probably would be like, ooh, now it's like a jaded TV watcher.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

Yeah, yeah. Well, again, well, now that I'm re-watch, because I'm re-watching it along with you guys, and when I see it, especially I think it's so interesting. I'm not a parent. I mean, I do have a friend who is a parent, but when you guys are talking about Michael in particular, I am so intrigued because I had never thought, I was like, oh, he's just a dad. Like, I never, but the way you guys are going into like, oh my lord, Michael, put your ass together with your son, is hilarious. Because I'm like, wow, I never even thought about that. And then years later, when Harold was talking about playing the character and how he's like, oh, you know, I didn't want to come off as this kind of father, I was like, dude, I never, like, no offense, but that was not I you, Walt and Michael were so independent in my mind that until you hear Harold, who is a father, and you women who are mothers, I was like, wow, I never even so again, a whole nother like 20 years later, I'm like, wow, a whole and I never thought about it that way when I was watching for the first time because the show came out in 2004.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

My oldest was born in 2007.

SPEAKER_02 25:50

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:50

If I start watching the show, I am not a parent. So like I never even thought about it like that until you just mentioned it. But yeah, I never thought about that before. It never even crossed my mind. It was all like, Sawyer's hot. Okay, like I know. Oh, monster? Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

Like, yeah, yeah, but also to see um Jack's character through a 2024 perspective is because I still had very rose-colored glasses for him.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

Me too, back then, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

But now, as a 2024 viewer, especially watching an episode like Stranger in a Strange Land, you're like, oh my god, but yeah, but uh, I mean, but also that's kind of I I must admit, I did use when I wrote when I was writing my first book, I did use a lot of names from Lost. And even though it's a romantic thriller series, and it really has nothing to do with Lost or an Island or anything like that. I did love that storytelling aspect of multiple POVs and lots of different stuff going on. And I tend to use that a lot in my books. Um, where I just I want to be in everyone's mind and I want to, I love that where it's what's happening here with Sawyer when he's there, and then Jack is talking to Juliet for the first time. I really love that, all that interplay. So that really did inspire me in my writing process, um, which I know sounds so funny that a show from 20 years ago, you know, but uh I really do get influenced a lot by media and a lot by books. And I'm a strong, strong believer that every story's already been told. And it's all about telling it from your perspective. So I mean, that's why you can get that's why I think it's so important to listen to and read so many different nuanced authors and different things, because everyone's perspective is so different, and then you can see it from a whole new light. I mean, just like for instance, to me, Michael was always just the awesome dude from Roomu and Juliet. Yeah. You know, I was like, it was always just Harold, aka Mercutio to me. Then I was like, oh my god, he really is, you know. I thought Susan was the devil, but you know, I never really thought, yeah, oh my god, that woman.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

And and and I feel like I don't know. I I feel like more so back then it was like it was so much easier to hate her. Of course, and then now it's like, but she just did what she thought she had to do.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

Yeah, yeah. And she was, yeah, she was literally, and I can kind of see that, even though I'm not I haven't given birth to a child, I could see that of being like, I will literally lay down my life, I will literally, you know, treat your biological father like garbage just to make sure that you are in the best because I mean she kind of had a point, you know. I mean, like, what was he gonna do? So she could give him all the best. So, I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

Yeah, and I think that the the perspective change doesn't necessarily have to come from having a child, but just we're not the same people that we were 20 years ago.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

Oh, so true. I used to really relate with Shannon because when I started watching it, I was Shannon's age, and now that I'm older, I'm like, oh my god, I can still feel that 20-year-old, but now I just relate so much to Juliet. I'm like, oh I was like, thank god we got the queen. Love her, yes, Juliet to take care of business.

SPEAKER_00 29:21

So um That's it, women get shit done.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

I know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So uh I mean, but yeah, just really, I guess as far as writing, if you do want to write a book, the thing I say is you have to treat it like a job. I force myself, and I know this sounds bad, but I force myself to edit because that is you want to lose your mind when you're rereading your own stuff. But you have to force yourself to do it because you have to make a product, you have to make something, and you don't want it caught in your head all day because you have to sleep, you know. Yeah. Um so I really force myself to write and edit every day, and I didn't realize I was doing it until I was halfway through, but I did publish a title every year of my 30s by doing that. So they are short story collections, they're not all full-length novels because I did four anthologies during that time. But but yeah, I mean, it was really, I was treating it as a job.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

So do you always write for the same amount of time when you write, or is it just make the point to write every day, even if it's only for five minutes?

SPEAKER_01 30:30

I mean, I do definitely try to write at least or do something along the lines of it for at least you're right, about five minutes. But when I am, when I am writing, I wake up as early as possible and I try to, and I really, if I get on TikTok, it's over. I can't have any outside. I have to just have the coffee. And it sounds funny, but I write until I'm hungry, until I'm literally hungry, which is usually about 10 a.m. where I'm like, I literally can't think anymore. I'm so hungry. And that's when I stop. And then I watch my rally TV garbage, and then I, you know, let my brain ease out of my ears. But uh when it comes to the when it comes to the editing, like right before I got on this call with y'all, I printed out a chapter because once I'm done with this, I'm gonna go through and read that chapter with the red pen and all that stuff. So um now there are some people that they just finish the whole book and then edit it. I tend to do it all at once because I'm insane. Um, I I thrive off a lot going on. You know, I'm in school right now, I work part-time at a hair salon, I'm working on a book that's gonna be like probably about a hundred thousand words. And do I mention I'm going to school? I don't know. But it's I'm doing a lot. So um I really have to force myself to do these things. And um, but that's the only way I've really found success is by uh honestly treating it like a job. So, and when people give you critique, I've definitely I had I had been writing this novel, and I had a friend take me out for some cup of coffee after critique circle, and he straight told me he's like, You need to trash this novel. He's like, you need to trash it. And I was like, Oh my god, why? And he's like, You're too close to it. He's like, You're basically writing yourself, and we can tell, and it's not, it's not good. He's like, This is something that you write for yourself and you don't share with the outside world. And now in hindsight, he was right. I was essentially writing a memoir or something, I don't even know what I was trying to write, but it was for my therapist, it was not for the outside world because it wasn't it really wasn't, it wasn't a memoir, it wasn't fiction, it wasn't doing anything, there was no purpose. Um, it was just words on a page.

SPEAKER_00 32:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 32:50

But okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:53

Yeah, I guess I'm just like uh until you said that it was kind of like, but but but what's the problem? But now I get it.

SPEAKER_01 32:59

Yeah, it's I've written a couple things. I do remember I wrote uh a flash fiction piece, which is generally about 750 words, so it's maybe uh two pages, two, three pages. But I basically wrote it about my ex-fiance from years and years ago. Oh wow. And I wrote it when I was probably only about 25, 26. So it was still relatively new. And my mentor took me aside and she's like, girl, no. She's like, you're not ready to write this. It's not, it's just no good. She's like, You're too in your feelings, you need to take a step back and not write this, basically now. And um I do appreciate that. I've definitely had a couple people be like, think about what people might think about you when you put this book out there. And I'm like, oh, well, I don't really give a shit. So that enjoy the book, enjoy the book.

SPEAKER_00 33:48

I know that the thought of even though I toy with the eye of the the idea of writing, I am scared shit to put my name on it.

SPEAKER_01 34:00

I mean, you could always do a pseudonym.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

Yeah, but I mean so like I just give so much credit to people who write and then put their own name on it because it takes a lot of fucking courage. And I don't know if I have it, but yeah. Yeah, I just know me. I'm like, uh, who is what is my name? Jaden Smith? Got it.

SPEAKER_05 34:24

Anastasia Bieberhouse.

SPEAKER_00 34:26

My name is Juliet Burke. Here you go. Here's my name.

SPEAKER_03 34:28

My name is Juliet Burke, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

Yeah, yeah. How does how does it work with publishing though? Did you find that that part was hard? And like how did how did you maneuver it?

SPEAKER_01 34:38

So I did for my uh the very first book that I ever that was ever published, I did go to I did have a traditional publishing house, I suppose. It was a small indie press, and they published my book. That contract didn't work out too well, so then I started publishing on my own. And honestly, if I can do it, anyone can do it. It's Amazon has made it so easy.

SPEAKER_00 35:04

Now our direct to Kindle, right?

SPEAKER_01 35:06

It's so it's so easy breezy. You guys could do it in a way. Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous. Um, that part is so much easier now. Now, are there nuances? Are there do I personally have a preference with a different platform? Yes. Do I kind of have to, you know, kneel down to the man of Amazon? Yes. Do I go to a lot of in-person events and people will literally see me, see my books, talk to me, want to read the book, and then order it on Amazon literally in front of me? Yes. That that yes. Um, and but the thing is, is also at this point, at one point I was like, I really wanted accolades, and I really wanted lots of readers and money, and who the who the hell knows what I wanted?

SPEAKER_00 35:55

Well, who doesn't? But yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:56

But at this point, it's more like, oh, well, at least they're reading the book. So uh that's really what it gets down to me. Um, but I will say that there the first time you do get kind of a a review, it does haunt you. The so I it's very I had uh I think it I think it might still be out there on a platform where books can be reviewed, but uh someone had written about my romantic thriller series that my bloodthirsty assassin, like she has a moment where she cries. And um I had gotten some feedback that when they read that scene, and when they read that book, the comment was, Oh, well, you can tell a girl wrote this. And it was specifically for that scene of my assassin crying. And I was kind of like, that's I was like, I I know you're trying to make that be offensive, but it it's not because I am a girl, and I did write the book, so it's a little bit like right on the nose there. But uh it's also like when you state that it's about a character showing emotion, when up until then she'd just essentially been used as a sexual figure or used to go murder people because that's she was an assassin, that was her job. Um, I mean, I'm kind of like, oh, that's not that maybe shows more about you than me. And um I did have another critique or another, you know, comment where someone was like, This book is horrible and I can't even finish reading it, and that still haunts me. So yeah, you definitely get people out there, but then again, there are many famous books and famous authors out there that I've read their stuff and it's just not for me. It's just not for me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:40

Right.

SPEAKER_01 37:41

And the thing that I always have to remember is once I publish it, it's no longer mine. They are now, the reader is now interpreting it. Um, I'll tell you most notably, especially since you've read everything that counts, Lisa. There's when I I was getting some beta readers who were teenagers to read it when I was publishing it. Now, at the time, it was kind of funny because they were a little too young to understand like the Carson Daly references and the dial-up internet references. Right, right. And then their parents were a little bit too old to kind of get those. So that was a lost on a lot of them. But I was like, honestly, it's set in 2003. I don't know what to tell you. That's that's what I yeah, that's what, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's just the way the cookie crumbles. But um, every teenager that read it has said that there was a particular side character that they're both of these teenagers, like, I'm so thankful you wrote this gay character. And I was like, what? And they're like, both of them were like starry-eyed and so thankful. They were like, oh my gosh, I loved seeing myself in this gay character. I loved it. And I was like, uh, okay, I have no idea what you're talking about, but I'm so glad that you enjoyed it. And since then, I have had a few other teens be like, oh my gosh, I know what you're talking about. I do also relate to this character, and yada yada yada. But the thing is, is when I wrote that character, I just wrote him as he existed. He just existed that way in my head, and that was him. And when someone else was interpreting what I wrote, they were like, Oh my gosh, this dude is gay. Because I'm like, I didn't catch that, but it was um honestly, I feel so stupid because I forget the two characters' names.

SPEAKER_00 39:15

All right. In the book, um, towards the end, and I don't know if this is like a spoiler, so if anybody wants to read this, just skip forward a couple of minutes. But I thought maybe it was gonna turn out that the older brother was gay.

SPEAKER_01 39:32

That's that's exactly who everyone says is gay.

SPEAKER_00 39:35

But then but I didn't but then I was like, oh, I guess I guess not. But it was only in like the last I guess 10, 20 pages of the book. I I have a confession. I bought it for my Kindle.

unknown 39:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:52

Okay. Oh, so yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. I mean of course yeah. Again, I'm like the book, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

Yeah, so um, but yeah, like it was something like when they were oh my goodness. Um I think it was Blake's birthday, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 40:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 40:09

And and I can't remember what it is now that that sparked it. But there was something that I was like, oh, maybe that's why he can't like be himself or something.

SPEAKER_03 40:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:22

But then it didn't seem to go anywhere, so I was like, oh, I guess not. Yeah, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 40:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:27

But I mean, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:29

In my head, he was always like just a bro. He was just a straight up bro, and that was all he ever was to me. But I did know that he had a special relationship with another character.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

Oh, that's why, right, because it was the it was Sophie's older brother, right? Sophie's older brother, and he didn't and he he didn't have that's what it was. It was the party. Yeah, and they were saying how he didn't have a good time or he he didn't have as special of a time unless it was with the brother.

SPEAKER_01 40:58

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

So yeah, there was memory. So basically Blake and Sophie are kind of the main characters, Agnes, since you haven't read it, but uh, and then they have two older brothers, and they're older brothers. When I was writing it, I did believe that these two older brothers not necessarily had a sexual relationship, but I did believe that they had a very strong bond that was like I I couldn't even even still years later. I mean, I wrote this book, good lord, when I was 25, 26. So I mean, it was a bond that I didn't even quite understand. I feel like it makes sense to me.

SPEAKER_05 41:32

I haven't read it. Sorry. Um, but it's not it makes it log on. I think I just do that. It makes sense because we the fact that Blake's older brother is just who he is, and it's indicative of how people just want to be treated to begin with. Exactly. We never say Billy Bo Bob and Sarah are straight. They're straight, they're straight, they're straight, they're straight. No, that's just who they are. But when we and when gay characters are introduced into a show, whatever, it's like they're gay, they're gay, they get why can't they just be? That's all I mean it's yeah, they'll be that's it. And I know Lisa and I talk about it, my friend Angie and I talk about like platonic friendship soulmates are real. Yeah, yeah. And then the two older brothers, and I feel like it just makes sense to me. And I'm like, oh okay. Yeah, yeah. Of course, it's 2024. Exactly. And these feelings are like, yeah, I get it. It makes sense. Yeah. And I can see how these like this guy relates to me as a gay teenager or a gay or LGBQ teenager because they this is who they are. Yes. Revolutionary idea. I know exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Amazing.

SPEAKER_02 42:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 42:59

Thank you. Yeah. Like a cat. Oh, I love it. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 43:05

When as as an author, I've heard different things, but but none of them from like the source. So I've heard people say, or supposedly, that when they publish, they prefer uh they prefer that people purchase their book on Kindle or electronically versus through the publisher because they get a bigger share of the pot. Do you find that that's true for you? Like, do you have a preference for the way people consume your media?

SPEAKER_01 43:42

Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna be real honest. Unless I'm doing an in-person event, this is just Starbucks money we're talking about here. So it it yeah, so I mean, you it might be different for people that are because I've heard actual, I don't want to see an actual authors, but like I love romance novels and those sell out a lot. And I've listened to a couple romance authors talk about it, and you are correct. For people that sell a ton, it is so much, they make so much more money from Amazon than but Kindle, like did yes, the Kindle, correct. The digital from the physical copies, correct. Okay, because we have to essentially whether no matter where you're getting that physical copy, we are the ones paying for it to be physically made.

SPEAKER_00 44:23

Right.

unknown 44:24

Yes,

SPEAKER_01 44:25

low work is it is more of a it's more of an overhead it makes sense correct correct but for me i mean i sell i mean i don't sell that many print copies like online and all that stuff but i do sell a ton of kindle okay but i'm also on kindle unlimited but that's also i like that people are out there and not as many people i love to carry a physical book but not everyone does i i i do both so right now i mean my my house is full of books if you go in my car there's a book in my car yeah if i go out there's probably a book in my bag especially if i'm gonna be somewhere that i might have to wait or downtime you know as a kid growing up in new y you read on the subway it's just it just is what it is but I also have on my Kindle because I like to read at night and so I download it on my iPad I can prop it right up on my night table and do this and when I fall asleep I don't have to wear but like the lights are on it'll you know it'll it just shut itself off and I'm yeah and also one of the perks is that I can start on my iPad and pick it up on my phone and you know vice versa.

SPEAKER_00 45:39

And so like here I am finding myself oh I'm waiting for my kid to come out of wherever but but I have my phone and I can continue. So I I like to have I like to have the option whereas I have a physical book that I am in the middle of it's it's in my car. It's strictly for when I'm in my car waiting on the and I have books on the Kindle. So but I love the the the feel of a book the smell of a book you know being able to be like oh I saw that somewhere and then you like flip the pages and you're like Yeah yeah yeah I mean the Kindle it's like so in this in this sense when I was reading yourself Blake says something about a poster and it was like it only took me I don't know how however many years to figure out what it means and I was like I don't remember what the poster said so all I did is hit like the search and search the word poster and then it was like boom every time the word poster was mentioned it pops up and I'm like okay boom that's that's what it and of course it was the title of the book but you know like an idiot I'm like so like it's great for that stuff. Um you know when I read um 50 shades of gray and I got so I was like if she says down there one more fucking time more time and moist I was like I mean it yeah and so it was like one of those things where I'm like all right let's just search and see how many times and and that's what I found myself doing was instead of reading the book like searching for how many times she said this word or this word and that and I don't I I'm not I'm so not trying to shit on the book. Oh no yeah but like it was like great the search feature is coming in handy because she keeps saying that and it's annoying and it's like you know like I know I'm not crazy. I know this word is appearing a lot I mean I don't remember now but yeah I missed I was traumatized.

SPEAKER_05 47:48

I used to own over a thousand books and when I moved because my UHL was half filled with other people's stuff anyway there was no room for my books and I lost about 90% of my books and I had to give them away very heartbreaking and still to this day still kind of breaks my heart um I haven't had a chance to replenish my books I I'm afraid I think if I replenish my books my library I'll lose them again. Yeah so I'm strictly now audio like I like the Kendall I like the electronic the ebooks but I love my audiobooks yeah I have a hard time now because of medical reasons to like focusing so the reading isn't as enjoyable for me because I get unfocused. Throw that audio book on in my car or while I'm cooking or while I'm cleaning I can go through like a book a day if I'm left alone. Okay yeah I'm back to being but I do love the books I love I do miss the smell and like I had a bookmark for every book.

SPEAKER_00 48:51

I was just Oh yeah oh it for me it gets to the point where I'm like oh that receipt on the floor that's a bookmark now yeah you know oh I every time I go somewhere I'm like oh bookmarks like I was to paper towel it it didn't even matter it was just like whatever was closest to me becomes a bookmark even though I have actual bookmarks it was like they were never around when I was reading so it was just yeah I noticed that that's not thinking I had so many of them because I I've always needed a bookmark for each purse. Oh yes yeah yeah and the scholastic book fair when like when we were kids in elementary school that was my favorite section that was the tower with all the bookmarks. Yes oh my goodness the garden actually I don't feel like it's are they as fun as they used to be because I feel like they're more electronic based are like at least they don't care no it's really I have I have no idea I have no idea my kids get they kind of do it but it's it's just not the same and a lot of it is like they send the library it's like no they send like the little you know remember we used to get the little booklets on like that tissue paper material but for now a lot of it is order online. They'll still do it in the school but it's just it's just not the same it's not as fun. I've I've gone to like my kids once but and they do e-wallets now yeah which is nice yeah but like everything is so damn expensive that I send my kids to school with 20 bucks and she comes home with like some dumbass journal and and like a pen and I'm like okay what's my change there there's no change like okay awesome I spent twenty dollars on blank paper good yeah good regret great glad I could help yeah but um I was just gonna ask you something I forgot um she does that a lot yeah oh I was gonna ask how did you end up in Houston?

SPEAKER_01 50:56

Oh goodness um well I did a canon event for most uh not most well some young women and I followed a boy I followed a boy to Phoenix Arizona and while Phoenix was lovely really did love it um that relationship did not work out and I was 19 at the time and I was my thought process was if I go back home because I had essentially made it it was just such a classic now that I look back such a classic move of oh mom dad you don't know what you're talking about this is perfect life is you know yellow brick roads ahead what are you talking about I'd made such a big deal about how wonderful my life was gonna be that I was like oh everyone was correct and I was wrong and my life is not gonna look how I thought it would be so I did have an aunt that lived in Houston and I was like I'm gonna live with her and kind of figure out my life and it took me 20 years to uh do that but uh I mean I really did move here with just what I could fit on my car. Wow and um I had no job I had dropped out of school I had left my books I had left a mattress that I will never it it was a brand new mattress and I left that there too but uh I just I just had to break I just had to break away from that life completely and restart fresh and um although I didn't think I'd live in Houston I mean I really thought like maybe six months maybe a year I'll figure something out who knows um but yeah it the longer I lived here the more I made a life here and at this point I mean even still and I I think about it from time to time even still with the whole life I've created if let's say my husband leaves me and my cat decides to go with my husband and um everyone decides they don't want me to cut their hair anymore or something then I could I feel like I could still just leave and start over all new fresh and have another wonderful life. So I do I do really love my husband and that's why I stay in Houston um because he's a native Houstonian.

SPEAKER_04 53:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 53:18

The Casa Libyan is really great. The food is amazing you meet lots of different new people um I don't personally always agree with how Texas runs things and I'll leave it at that um in fact I really disagree with pretty much everything test Texas does but again Texas Texas is one of those places where I find myself using as an example of like what not to do also. I mean yeah yeah it's I will just that in Florida I will just say on behalf of uh some of us here in Texas we're not all like that.

SPEAKER_05 53:57

No we yeah we I've never been to Texas I don't know why I you know think I can use it as an example but oh well no please do please do I use it as an example I've been to because you know yeah I mean there's certain things that are some of the opinion but some things are just facts. Yeah you can't argue what has been passed into law so you know exactly yeah have a good basis on your opinion.

SPEAKER_01 54:22

Yeah one of one of the genres that I like is true crime and I listen to are you rolling your eyes at me no because I no I'm rolling my eyes at Texas sorry because I'm like Texas is not looking at you I am um so one of the podcasts that I listen to pretty religiously is Truth and Justice and oh yes you listen to it yes very good podcast yeah yeah and so a lot of the cases of wrongful conviction come out of Texas and you're like every time you listen you're like come on fucking Texas come on get your shit you're like please please yeah yeah yeah it's uh Texas and Georgia yeah yeah yes there's a lot happening in Georgia yeah but I mean um I I will just say on a on an everyday basis um you know people aren't assholes here and people are in a very general sense the people I come into contact with are educated and understand basic science and you know come on yeah that there's no I haven't I don't mean too many flat earthers you know what I'm saying so um and also as a as a hairstylist you know I've been working with some people for like a decade so I've been seeing them grow and evolve and that's really awesome too but um yeah I mean it's just kind of funny years and years ago when I was in gosh I guess middle school my parents got divorced and my mother had said oh well I think I'm just gonna move to I think I'm just gonna leave Maryland and move to Houston where my sister lives and I remember telling her there will be a cold day in hell that I will live in Houston Texas and ironically she still lives in Maryland and I've lived in Houston for about 20 years now so that irony is not lost on me but uh but I mean there is I mean there is a lot to do I will say that there's pretty much I mean you don't really even need to leave the state of Texas because it has everything that you would ever want to see in a lot I I've also heard wonderful things about Texas. Don't get me wrong yeah I mean it's definitely place that I would love to visit like Austin sounds amazing San Antonio uh Houston so it's definitely something that's like on the bucket list but yeah but I'm not against having my own little cowboy you know I watch all of stone I could go for a cowboy right now you know I wonder yeah well during during the rodeo season it's funny you can literally season oh my gosh yes there is a rodeo season and it's I think now I don't want to misspeak because Texans really get into it but I think Houston might have the largest rodeo in Texas okay I'm just saying it's pretty damn big but they before that they have something called a cook off where everyone's cooking and you can literally you are driving around the city and we're the fourth largest city in the country so there's a lot of smog and grossness but you can smell the brisket you can smell the barbecue all throughout the city but you talk about cowboys and food yeah yeah yeah and also they do they do a trail ride almost essentially through the city so there are cowboys actively on their horses through the city yeah so that's pretty cool yeah yeah yeah Agnes is like I'm packing my bags yeah packing a bag she's gonna leave everything behind and go find herself a cowboy but yeah a bow legged one too yeah yeah yeah I think we tend to stereotype states though because like oh good lord yeah I mean we're from New York since we stereotype I also how many times we hear bullshit about New York and I'm like well clearly you don't live here but okay yeah yeah yeah that's fine I'll take it I'll take it yeah yeah yeah asshole New Yorker I'll take it it's fine yeah yeah that's me go away yeah yeah if it'll make you go away sure goodbye yeah but no yeah there's definitely I mean also when I first moved here I was only I mean Houston's very sprawling so I was also kind of only aware of where my aunt had lived and good lord you know much bigger city than I ever imagined um and I'm telling you there's lots of the food in particular now I've been to New Orleans and I think New Orleans is I hate to disparage Texas but New Orleans is really some damn good food. That is probably some of the some of the best food I've had I've been to New York City a few times like during college there yeah and I did have some really good food there as well but I think that um just there's a lot of different types of food like you could get um Korean food Vietnamese food Jamaican food there's a large Nigerian population here in Houston oh wow so there there is some diversity here and it is more cultured than people tend to believe I think but then of course you know there is uh San Antonio which is really pretty I know you had mentioned that and Austin I haven't honestly been to Austin in about a decade but when I did go there it was still when Austin was quote unquote cool um is it is it not anymore I don't I don't know it's I know that during COVID there had been a lot of people that moved from California to Austin for venture capitalism. So Austin was already really expensive to visit and to live in and now I think it's probably more so um based on what people have I mean again I haven't personally been there um but uh in a in about a decade. But when I went there it was very much like uh be free and kind of listen to go in and out and listen to lots of different local music which was great because as I'd mentioned before I love music and uh lots of good text mechs and I I mean that's one of the reasons I married a Mexican is just to get as much yeah he's a very good cook thank God because when we first started dating I cooked for him and that meal was inedible I was like I've really messed this up there is no hope and uh thank goodness he can cook because he's a very good cook and uh yeah it's the enchiladas are that's what I'm in it for really yeah so Agnes and I are on our way. Yeah yeah yeah yeah so uh I know when I go back home and my husband comes with me my mom's always like so uh my husband's name is Israel so she's like so what's uh Israel gonna cook I'm like oh that's yeah exactly like take them to the grocery store yeah give me the list I'll buy everything just get your ass in the kitchen yeah exactly yes put on that apron yeah um but yeah so I mean but yeah I mean me and my husband we talked about maybe moving someday but I almost I tell him it's I'm like it's okay it's it's Texans generally stay in Texas and when I as a hairdresser when I meet new clients and they're new especially in Houston there's a lot of new doctors because about every three to four years there's an influx and outflux of doctors in particular because they're done with their residency. But whenever I get a new doctor I always warn them I'm like don't fall in love with a Texan unless you want to stay because you will stay and I had this one guy and he was like oh no I'm all good you know whatever I was like okay whatever because he was I he told me he was going on a date with a girl from Texas I was like don't fall in love and then it was uh not you know and then you know they were kind of dating and then maybe six months in he's like oh man I did it I was like what he's like oh he's like I'm so stupid I'm in love with her and I'm gonna he's like I'm gonna buy her a house and whatever she wants I'll give it to her I was like okay well welcome welcome as long as you know you're never leaving as long as you know you got it yeah you better buy the house here in the area because she's not leaving yeah but uh but yeah I mean there is something to be said said for the pride I do know living in Maryland um there was definitely some Maryland pride there but it's I had a my friend that I've known since I was 11. She came to visit me and it was just so funny how she was noticing she's like geez Louise you can't like shake a stick without hitting a Houston uh Texas flag and very very proud I'm like they are very proud and they're they will definitely warn you oh we'll secede at any moment and I'm kind of like that's not a threat I'm like telling I'm like I know you keep saying he's like well we'll just secede forget the rest of them like you realize that that's not a threat to the rest of the United States they're good they're they're set like we already have our own power grid like they're good but like whatever Texas yeah it's fine it's fine yeah it's fine you're fine it's all fine yeah we'll we'll import the Tex Mex from our country and then we're good yeah um but yeah I mean I will say it is I'm so blessed for the Houston writing community because they really I mean some of these people like I've said I've been in a critique circle on and off for about a decade. You know some of these people they've seen me you know become the author I am now and I'm so grateful for them because a lot of them are older than me and some of them are old enough to be like my parents but they didn't judge me when I was coming in with these you know stories about getting dumped at 19 and they're like okay girl like put a pen in it for a minute let that roast and then move on with your life. Yeah. Um but yeah getting getting their guidance and also seeing how um at first I was almost humbled where I was like I remember being in a group with this guy named Kyle and we were the same age and in my head I was like okay he's not gonna be that good because we're about the same age and then of course he brings this book and I'm like this is the best book I've ever read. So um it is also kind of humbling being around um some of these authors that have really gone out and seen and gotten master's degrees because I I don't have any formal education in in writing um or editing or publishing or marketing or anything.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:28

So um I've only went read the one book but I I would not have known I mean the the imagery and the characters are really well written. Thank you thank you yeah in in in like my absolute 100% honest review I would say some of the dialogue was like wait and and and I would like there were just a few instances where I'm like I had to reread because I'm like did I read that wrong or maybe maybe it's just not the way I would speak but other than that I mean I I was like you couldn't tell me that somebody wrote this that hadn't had a formal education or hadn't been an experienced writer writing for decades. I mean the the book was beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:20

Oh thank you thank you you're welcome I mean I did I did I wasn't like I was in a literary mag in high school and then in college and my community college I was on the newspaper. So I did I was more always towards journalism I guess but I never really finished any of those degrees before I went to cosmetology school and uh but I do remember there was a gentleman in my Houston writing community and he was going on and on about how he would never read a book from someone that didn't have a master's in writing and blah blah blah blah blah and I literally was like well how many books have you published and he's like oh well I'm still working on my book. I was like well that's great because I've published three so how about shut up you know yeah sometimes if we wait till we have all of our ducks lined up it's never gonna happen. We have the lake is one dry by then like there is something to be said where if you're especially in writing it's such a solitary thing that you could just look at your own work and analyze it again and again and again. And there's even times where I've read My books in past, which which sounds so silly, but uh just to be like, even sometimes to be like, I literally don't remember. I've had people be like, I love this character. I'm like, I literally have no idea who that character is. I don't want to spoil it, maybe I kill them. I don't even know. But um, where I've reread some of my stuff, and I'm like, sometimes I'm like, oh wow, that's actually good. And sometimes I'm like, oh my God, I wish I could retroactively edit this whole chapter. But I mean, that's also kind of it's like living art. I'm sure a painter or a sculptor is like, oh, maybe if I had done this brush stroke differently, you know, there's always, I'm sure even you ladies, when you're listening to every now and then you're like, oh my god, if only we knew some of those beginning episodes. I'm like, oh yeah, you're like, oh sweet lord, don't listen too closely.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Trying to figure out equipment. And yeah, it uh I I yeah. But I think that's that's part of the growth process.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:20

I always like if I ever get a chance to finish this thing, um I'm one of those people that I do what I have to do, put it out, and then walk away. Not walk away, but I forget it. I this is overdone, move on because if not, I will drive myself crazy. I'm an overthinker, maybe because I'm a Libra, maybe because I'm a I don't know, but I overthink and I'm like, no, I gotta put it in the box, let it do what it's going to do on its own, and then move on to other things. I can't go back, I can't think about it. Like, well, what do you think about? I don't know. Like, like, just ask me about something. I I don't know. Yeah, I can't, because I would just end up pulling it from the shelves, so to speak. Because if I would think about it, like, yeah, no, change of mind, take it back. I take it all back. It never happened.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:05

Yeah, yeah. No, I really I I don't know if that's healthy or not. No, I've definitely done that with my spy series, it's a three-book series, and it took me, I want to say like three, four years to write the whole thing. Um, and I hadn't yet, I don't think I'd actually hit like publish or like submit for the final book. But I remember driving home from work and it was the first time in my life where I did not hear the voices of like essentially my characters in my head. And I was like literally scared. I was like, oh my gosh, they're literally gone. Like their story was done and complete. I I had it was as if they almost never existed in my head. I couldn't hear them at all. And I was like, oh my God, this is horrifying. Um, and I was like almost sad. I was like, what if I can never write again? What if this is what because I'd never really experienced writer's block. I'd always had too much.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:55

How many how many books had you written before that this experience?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:00

I had written, well, I had written that that's that's also a different difference. Written versus cult. I had written because during the, I will say there's a book that I don't know if I'll ever be able to publish, but I wrote it during the pandemic and I created this character, and I didn't intentionally do it until I or realized that I wasn't doing it. But I essentially made every horrible thing that could ever happen to one person happen to this girl. But it's like, I don't even know if anyone could read it because it is every time she was trying to get up, I punched her back down again. Um, so that's technically a book I've written, but I don't know if I'll ever publish it. But at the time I had published four books when I had had this feeling of like just emptiness in my head. And I was like, oh shit. Um, so like many normal people, I decided in order to solve my problem, I'm gonna sit on my couch and watch Netflix. And I I turned on a movie called The Old Guard, and it did star Charlize Therone. And I swear, halfway into it, I was already thinking about my next series, my sci-fi series that I'm currently working on. Um, so and ever since those characters have been in my head, and I kind of can't wait till they quiet a little bit because it's pretty loud. But uh, but yeah, I mean, I will say as far as like putting out your own stuff and writing it, the publishing part is honestly easy. The marketing part is a little annoying because like you have to what's fresh, what's new, and yada yada yada. And I honestly don't have that part down at all. Um, but uh I think the actual making sure the content inside is good is kind of the hardest part. But also there's different variations of good. I mean, we've even just you know discussed different authors here in this podcast, and they might not all be my jam, but I also I mean, not just on like a bitchy bitch or something, but I've already read like 146 books this year. So the books that I read are gonna be different than the books that other people read. You know what I'm saying? So do I read some what people might uh relate as garbage? Because I read I do love a good romance, but after I've read a 600-page, you know, fantasy novel, I kind of wanna relax a little bit with a book where I know the ending's gonna be happy and there will be no dragons and no one's being murdered, and you know, just a nice little romance, like a Hallmark movie. So um, but yeah, I mean, if I can do it, anyone can do it. It's all about, you know, finding an audience, I suppose. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:39

What about the covers? Do you design those or do you have someone design them for you?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:45

I I have a strong um belief that there are two things you should never do as an author and publisher, and that's create your own covers, and that's edit your own book. Now, um, I have a friend who is a graphic artist. He did his own cover, he's also a trained graphic artist. I am not. So I thankfully do have um a woman named Heidi Dory who does my covers. I hope to God she never retires because I will cry like I'll complete because I do get a lot of people that when I I do I try to do a lot of in-person events because that's where I get my most sales and I like to meet people and talk about my stuff. But uh the people are always like, wow, your covers look so good for an independent author. And I'm like, well, thank you so much. You know, I I like to think that the stuff inside is just as good. Um, my cover artist Heidi has said it is pretty good. So I but uh but I will say that's probably other than the relationship I have with my editor, the relationship I have with my cover artist is almost sacred. Because at this point, we've done, you know, eight, eight books together. And it's just so funny because the first couple books I was like, oh well, this is what I want to see. And she'd always say, She's like, okay, like I'll create that for you, I'll show that to you. And then she'd show it to me. I'm like, oh yeah, this is not, this is not it. And she's like, Oh, yeah, I know. And here, this is it. And she does it every time. Like, oh no, this is the she's like, I already solved that for you. That's this is the cover. And I'm like, you are correct. That is so I think even with the most recent book I published, The Boy with the Glow, um, the character the book is about, he does have. He's supernatural and he does literally glow when he's using his powers. He does usually light, he does actually light up. And I told her, I was like, I was like, would it be hokey if we literally put a glow around the outline of the boy on the book? And she was like, Yeah, I'll do it. And then when she did it, she's like, you can look at it, but she's like, Yeah, it's not. She's like, that's not the way. She's like, that's not it. And she's like, but this is, and I was like, oh, yet again. It happens every, every time, where she'll give me lots of, she'll give me like three or four different options of even the same cover. And she'll be like, I recommend this one. And I'm like, okay, well, let me look at it and think on it. And then I always end up, I'm like, God, she's right. She's right again. Just every, every time she's right. Um, and uh, I'm very blessed to have her as a cover artist. And then my editor, she is also like, we started out as friends, and then she became my editor. So sometimes she does have to like read the book first, just as my friend, and be like, oh my gosh, I love this. And then she has to go back in and like do it as her job. As an editor. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So um, and I will say that's very cool. Because I will say, when I published my very first book with that publishing company, um, there was a scene where, um, and spoiler alert, if anyone wants to read my romantic thriller series, this happens in the first book, but um, the main character jumps off a building and survives. And I forget how many stories it was the first time I wrote it, but my publisher was like, absolutely not, you have to cut this scene. It's just not, it's not realistic. And I was like, I was like, spoiler alert, she's literally killing multiple people. And when people read this scene where she jumps off the building, what she did before, I was like, so you believe what she did before, but not after jumping off the building. I was like, come on, people. Um so then I did, but I really wanted that scene. I was like, it's really, I see it in my head, this scene has to exist of her jumping off this building. So I had to rewrite it. And instead of just jumping off the building and she miraculously lives, she jumps off the building and lands in a garbage truck, and that's how she lives. Um, which I was like, okay, whatever. But um have so having a relationship with your editor where they can come to you and give you honest feedback and honest criticism and not be, of course, being like, I don't know, rude or obnoxious. Um, and then you in turn taking that and learning how to maneuver that into something else um is really very important because you, you know, your story is very much your, you know, your baby. And I've gotten to the point where I'll have a whole chapter plotted out, and then when I'm done with that chapter, I'm like, oh wow, this is not it. And I will delete it.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:10

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:10

And my husband is like, you are literally insane. And um, and I'm like, yeah, I'll just delete the whole thing and start over. I'd rather start completely fresh.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:21

Uh but criticism is not necessarily a bad thing. Yeah, right. It goes back to the old adage, it's not what you say, but how you say it. So if I tell you, well, I didn't enjoy your book, that's not helpful. But if I say to you, well, I I didn't enjoy the way the characters were uh described I don't know, like I'm just trying to, you know, I didn't I didn't like the way the characters were described, I couldn't see them or whatever. Then at least at least then you're like, oh, okay, this is what I need to work on.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:02

Yeah, it's actionable, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:03

Right, and we we say that ourselves, like even with the podcast, it's like not every person is gonna like every podcast, and that's fine. Now, if you don't like what we put out, that's okay. But if you say, Well, I don't like your podcast because well then awesome because now we know well, this doesn't appeal to people, this whatever, you know. Like you go off on too many tangents, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:32

We know we know, but part of it is that's part of our shtick, also. Like there's some things that yes, we can change, and there's some things that well, maybe we'll just set the podcast for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:42

Right, and hope that you find what works for you, and there's plenty of things that we can't change if we don't know that people would like them to be changed. So that's like telling me, well, I don't like your cooking, awesome. Why? Yeah, maybe it's because I put too much salt, but I would never know because you don't tell me that part. I can't put less salt if I don't know that that's your problem, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:08

Yeah, you put just the right amount of salt, Lisa.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:11

Thank you.

unknown 1:18:12

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:13

Just the right amount of salty, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:15

So I don't know if you hear that sound. That's my dog trying to break into my room.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:20

Oh gosh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:22

That's it's her on the door trying to break.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:26

She's very see, I told you, dogs are the nicest. If she could talk, all she would do would say, Mommy, I love you. Please let me snuggle. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:34

We have a doggy door in our bedroom door. Okay, she can get in and out. She's not using it. I shut the panel because she was growling and pacing before, right before we started. Do you hear the psycho? And I want it to be in the recording, and then Alex just got home, he's in the bathroom, and so now she's like, Oh, my people are both in the bedroom. I need my people. I must and my daughter must have gone to her room, so now she's yeah by herself. The horror.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:12

Sorry. Um, but yeah, criticism is can be a great thing as long as it's constructive. Right. Like just say, hey, yeah, okay, you don't like something. That's awesome. But what? Yeah. Just tell me what why why don't you like me? Yeah. I remember um uh I don't know, I think this was like a year or two ago on Twitter. You know, they they do the circles where you put like your cir I don't know, I don't I don't remember what app it was, but it was like this app, and you put your thing in and it gives you your circles of who your account interacts with the most. And so like that's your inner circle and then your outer circle.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:56

Oh, that's scary for me, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:57

Yeah, so you know, and and whatever. And so we did it, and it shows like all the accounts that you interact with, and it was like, all right, cool, fun, whatever, it's the trend. And some person left feedback, like they commented on the post and saying, Thank God I'm not a part of this, or something to that.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:19

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:21

And I'm like, who is this person? Like it it wasn't anybody that I know, it was just some random person. And then I started to look at the feed. Oh my gosh, she is psycho. I'm so sorry. Um and and my poor door is literally only held uh the the jam, you know, like the the little part that clicks in that you turn with the doorknob, what you call that part, with some packing tape and some paper because my door is broken. So she she's gonna break in any minute. Um but yes, I go to his page and I'm looking, and it all it is is like him talking older man talking about how he just needs like a beautiful woman to like sit on his face, and I'm like, Oh god. I'm not sure I'm supposed to be insulted by your comment now. I think I feel a lot better.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:17

I need a shower now. Thank you. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:21

Yeah, okay, buddy. All right, yeah, yeah. Some so sometimes you have to see where the criticism is also coming from.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:27

Coming from so true, so true. Yeah. Well, that's I mean, because these group of writers, because there's a larger group of writers that I know, obviously, but then there's the smaller group that I critique with. And those writers, they've seen, you know, my books. I mean, there's one author that I've been in the critique circle with him the longest. So he's read every single iteration of even everything that counts that existed. So yeah, he's read every single book I've ever written. David has. And uh I've I've read so many of his, and it was funny because there are some newer people to the critique circle. And I was referencing a character that he had murdered five, six books ago. And I was like, Oh, it reminds me so much of Blank. And this other person was like, Wait, is that character in this book? And I was like, Oh no, that's like five books ago, don't even worry about it. And they're like, wait, but so she's dead. I'm like, oh yeah, spoiler alert, but yeah. It's like, oops, yeah, I was like, oh, yeah. But um, so I think that that is the most important. And I will say, I do love that my mother doesn't uh always give me a medal, so to speak. My mom like kind of makes me earn it. So um the funniest thing I've ever heard is one of my books I dedicated to her. And and we don't really talk about my writing a lot because I she is a big fan of my newer stuff. But you know, when I was starting out, the romantic thriller series was kind of spicy, and I was like, I don't really want to talk about that with my mother. But uh it came up not too long ago. I was like, Oh yeah, well, I dedicated that book to you. And she was like, Oh, Melissa, I didn't even finish that book. I'm like, what? And she's like, honestly, Melissa, she's like, I'm not even sure I opened it. She's like, I did buy it though. I do own it. I'm like, well, I appreciate that. She's like, she's like, but I don't even think I opened it. And I was like, well, no offense, I'm not dedicating another one to you then. So that's one and done. Um, but yeah, she is uh, I I do like that she keeps me in check. Because even, you know, when I was when I was a teenager, when I was in high school, I made a commitment to write a poem every day. Um, and uh some were good and some were really not so good. But every now and then I'd share them with my mother. And one of them I shared was about my little boyfriend, of course. And when she read it, she turned to me and she's like, Didn't you? She's like, You wrote this about a boy that you've dumped twice. And and I was like, and I was like, well, yeah. And she's like, Well, I just don't feel it. She's like, but you know, good, I guess. So I really it's been sometimes when I tell people that they're like, oh my god, your mother is horrible.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:12

I'm like, well, she keeps me grounded because she's I think it's no, that's a it's coming from love, yeah, right? Because you're not doing your kid a favor if you shield them from the world or you know, like I I think that when we're dishonest, we do them a disservice.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:30

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:30

And it's not malicious intent, it's not because she doesn't care. So you got it's a healthy balance. Like, I'm doing this because I love you. This shit is trash. Thanks, mom, love you.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:41

Maybe I wouldn't tell my kid her book is trash, but but yes, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:46

Yeah, as we get older, it becomes a little bit more honest. Like, girl, the what what what the fuck are you thinking? All right, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:53

You denote it, thank you.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:55

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:56

But in the next one, you might not want to include like this kind of thing, but yeah, no, no, no, but it but I appreciate the effort, good effort, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:07

With uh the first book I ever published, I had her as a beta reader, and it was my first spy novel. Um, so yeah, it was kind of spicy, and I was a little nervous about that. But one of my favorite comments that she made is she's like, You spelled Biach wrong. And I was like, What? And she was like, It's B-I-O-H-I-T or something like that. She's like, You spelled that wrong. I was like, I don't know if I like that you know how to spell that.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:30

And she's like, Well, I love I love your mom.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:35

I'm yeah, he's he's a character, and then my husband's parents are ex-ministers, and so my books are not something I usually share with them. But um, in the spy novels, one of the characters is half Puerto Rican, half white, the main character. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's after you, yeah. But um so she does, yeah, she does speak Spanish, and um, but the Spanish that she's speaking is like Mexican Spanish, because she's raised essentially with Mexican uh Mexican people versus Puerto Rican people, and um, I was trying to get a line of dialogue, and my husband is fluent, but he's like, I don't know all the nuances, and he's like, You should ask my mother. And I was like, Oh my lord, I do not want to ask your mother about this particular line. And he was like, No, she's gonna be cool. And I think the actual line was uh, you know, like fuck you, motherfucker, or something like that, but it was all in Spanish because it was these bikers talking to each other. And uh, this woman who, you know, is a minister and a very loving Christian woman brought out a dictionary to be like, well, now when he's saying fuck you, is he saying fuck you to like his grandfather or to like his friend? And I was like, no, it's like his buddy, and she's like, Oh, well, then he'd say it like this. And then she said, Well, what part of Mexico is he from? Because he might even say it. So we went through 80 89 branches of dialogue on how to say, Hey, motherfucker. And uh, and then later when it came out, I did work with another guy who was Mexican. I was like, Hey, could you just verify? Because I was like, What if she like, you know, was a little accidental? And he's like, Oh no, that's accurate. I was like, Oh my god, this is hilarious that she I love that, yeah, yeah, yeah. That she was like, Oh yeah, let me help you, Mija. Oh yeah. I was like, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:27

But uh yeah, very, very supportive. And also another thing I I kind of love, I'm curious. I now I'm now in the Midwest, I'm no longer in New York, and you are very cognitive of like she was half Puerto Rican and half white, but she was brought up with Mexican Spanish, and I can tell you on less than one hand how many people that I know now will understand the difference in that.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:54

Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:55

Lisa and I got it, you got it, but I'm like, wow, it's so cool. That you know, this this different diet, like not all Spanish speakers speak the same Spanish. Um like just like there's there's like the Southern isms, I like to call them. You have like and then just this different dialect within the country.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:18

Even English is different depending on where in the country you are. So imagine if you're from a different country. Yeah. Right. It just it I just it it just bestills my little icy heart that um there was even a part in the book that I read and I don't really remember the context now but the best friend is black and I remember when I there was a part that I read and I remember thinking like wow that's really a candid way of saying it and it like it's appreciated because n in my family not everyone looks like me we look very different even even growing up nobody nobody thought that my sister was my sister my sister is dark skinned and it's like yeah we can look different you know and then there's a lot of race issue when and and I like I joke and I'm like yeah I'm undercover because people say things in front of me oh god yes you know just not really grasping who I am or or how my family looks so I hear things that I maybe wouldn't hear if I looked different yeah and so then the way that this one scene was written from my perspective I was like wow like it's refreshing that this is something that even if it's just a throwaway comment is in there because I don't think enough people can appreciate that there are differences and and even this morning I was on the phone with a friend of mine and she was talking about her son who was saying how he got he gets pulled over when he's there and how her parent is like okay well I never get pulled over yeah and and the kid is like well I you know I can't exactly say the reason why to him because he's not gonna understand it yeah all he's all he sees is that you know the white guy with the blonde hair the blue eyes doesn't get pulled over in the rich neighborhood but the brown kid does yeah yeah and there's a reason for it you know and it's a fact of life and not and just you know just because not everybody subscribes to that way of thinking right that the brown kid is a criminal or up to no good we don't do ourselves a favor by by not acknowledging that there are people who do though yeah and that's the difference right and so while plenty of people can write a book and never think that race is an issue it still takes the person to acknowledge it for other people to be like oh I never thought of it that way because you but you never had to but it's nice that it's in there because maybe for those people who never had to think about it now you have another perspective. So I personally I appreciated it because I know that when many members of my family including my husband go out into that world I'm like you know yeah they are judged by by the by their look not by their content.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:41

It's very true. As I'll tell two stories first is about Jasper the character that you're talking about in my book. So I did intentionally make him black and Blake white for us for a purpose because this was essentially the high school I attended and to be frank I gotta be honest on my hand there were maybe five black kids in my entire grade and there I think there were two Mexicans and they were related. So I mean there was it was the least diverse everyone was white and um as I was writing the book I thought I was like how interesting would it be if Blake who is white and in this very suburban you know idyllic life has always lived as a white man and then his best friend when they're talking about prom and they're talking about getting dates to prom, his best friend Jasper is like well I can't just not get a date because I'm a loser because I'm a geek. I can't get a date because I'm black. And Blake was like what are you what are you talking about? And Jasper's like no one wants me to come and collect their you know daughter their blonde haired blue eyed daughter you know and to me I wanted to make that because I wanted the whole book to essentially be when you start the book Blake is clueless. And when you win the book Blake kind of kind of sees the world in a different way. He's grown yeah and I wanted it to be like he just never saw Jasper I wanted it to almost be like you know Blake didn't see color and Jasper just was Jasper. But then to have this dichotomy of like literally looking across the lunch table and he's like oh shit my whole life has been one way and I've thought that Jasper just experienced the same but he has not and um and even though I don't delve too deep into that because I don't think that that's really my story to tell and but that was part of the beauty of it.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:24

Yeah is that it wasn't a thing. It was just a fact a fact that many people experience but many people don't even acknowledge or realize that it is a fact. And so it's just the same way that somebody has blonde hair or blue eyes or their parent is a doctor or their their parents are divorced like we just have these facts of life that we that make us who we are except sometimes race can just be like a bigger issue because it has bigger ramifications and and like I said we just don't do any any favors by not acknowledging that yes this is an issue and I love the way you wrote it because it was like yeah that's an issue yeah but like what video games are we playing because that's sometimes it's just right that's just what it is simple.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:20

Yeah yeah yeah yeah so yeah because even even because that I do have Blake also go and essentially have a meal at everyone's house that he that are his in his friend group. And when he goes to Jasper's house like I didn't really think about it until after I wrote it but Jasper's mom is a single mom. She owns her own business and to live in that neighborhood that is a real neighborhood in Annapolis like his mother must have been making some money. His mother was making some some moves so I didn't even realize that but I was like wow Jasper must even see the world so much differently because his mom is working so hard and meanwhile Blake's mom is I mean she just doesn't have to work you know because especially in 2003 I had a lot of friends that their parents were either um because Annapolis is obviously very close to the Naval Academy spoiler alert um but there were people that were related in the military so their moms might not work because you know if you move every three to four years it's hard for the other spouse to get a job sometimes. So that was very common where you'd have these very nice you know two, three story houses, you know, that are in a very nice neighborhood and only one parent would work. You know what I'm saying? So because they'd often be contractors for the military um but uh or engineers for some you know some people I I think I think it's pretty I mean like I said my aunt who always lived in New York born and raised on the Lower East Side lived in Queens she got married um her then husband worked for the government um I I want to say he worked for like national parks or something but I could be wrong but she worked as a legal secretary and that's one of the reasons they moved down to Maryland and she ended up working in the White House.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:14

Oh she but but they weren't military correct yeah so even though it was government work you know they were stable they were yeah this is where their home base was so she you know now she tells the stories because she worked under the Clinton administration and I'm like I'm like so did you have to throw away any dresses and she's like haha no he's like but I did sit at the Oval Office when nobody was there.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:39

I was like oh nice yeah that's pretty cool yeah I know yeah she's she's like lucky for me the guy who sat outside was also you know Puerto Rican from the neighborhood oh yeah they let the brown lady in I was like okay but you know it's it's a beautiful city um you know annapolis we I remember like the time that we went we went um to the harbor we were touring like the boats and um I mean Maryland itself is beautiful but I know that a lot of people who are there are there because of the proximity to DC yeah yeah I mean because so I live I technically live in the suburbs of Houston but I drive almost essentially to downtown Houston to work at uh my salon part-time or a salon it's I don't own it but um I try to tell people like when I first brought my husband up to Maryland it wasn't a joke like we literally started our morning in Maryland and then we like went and had lunch in New Jersey and then we went went and had dinner in Delaware it was something kind of like that which wasn't in my mind too uncommon.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:51

I live two and a half hours away from Baltimore. Yeah yeah and so I'm in New Jersey right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:56

Yeah but my husband was like his mind was blown he's like where the hell are we? Because in Texas you have to drive for eight hours and you're still in Texas. Yeah yes so um yeah so I tell people that the entire state of Maryland can fit inside the Houston metro area and I actually technically live outside of that so it's almost essentially as if I'm driving from Connecticut to New York every day for my job.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:20

But oh yeah so that's pretty far I mean it it it's doable but it's doable it is far.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:28

Yeah especially to be in the same city exactly and people are because even people they're like oh my god you drive when I tell them where I I live so I don't even live in the same county in which I work um they're like oh my god but uh I mean A, it's where the money is you know what I'm saying that you people are gonna pay more downtown. Um and B, I've always kind of lived far away from where I've worked and I kind of like that especially as a hairdresser because I I love my clients I love them so much but I don't want them I want them to always see me at work with the allure you don't right you don't necessarily want to run into them in the grocery store. And uh because one time we were me and my husband yeah we were out at the liquor store and then one of my and then all of a sudden I heard someone goh like screaming I was like oh my God what is happening and it was one of my clients and she was a little tipsy and she was there with a date and she was like oh my gosh this is my hairstylist and I was like this guy could care less this guy could care less quiet he is only interested in hanging out with my client he's like okay yeah like looks great but how about we go to the movie or whatever and he's like oh that's just chit chat with her and he was like oh good and I was like how can I get them to this movie because that's apparently all he just yeah but uh but yeah I mean also as far as um the whole race thing you know my husband is Mexican he is dark brown and um he's the only non-white guy I'd ever dated so I wasn't I didn't kind of understand how people might see that but years ago when I used to smoke cigarettes um we were waiting in line at the gas station to get some cigarettes and my husband was in front of me and there was a woman that was behind me and she kind of reached over to grab something and bumped into me. And then my husband said oh do you mind apologizing to my wife you just bumped into her and this woman had the balls to say oh you two shouldn't even be married so I don't have to apologize to her and I was like so stunned I was like oh shit oh fuck no the earrings would have came off yeah and then my husband who is a military veteran said he's like you know what oh and then she also said you need to to my husband you need to go back to your own country I was like oh shit this is gonna be real good um but my husband is a military vet and he said you know I fought for our country so you could have the right of freedom of speech and I'm so glad that you're using uh your right of freedom of speech that I helped earn for you I'm so glad so it was kind of being a little bitchy but not being too bitchy. I love that for him. Yeah and I was better than us yeah and I was like damn those boys got it and then she and then he said well if you fought in the military it wasn't my military and I was like this woman is really trying to die today and uh then my husband said before I could even think anything he's like oh well I fought for your rights whether you wanted me to or not and I I you know I appreciate that you're now using the rights that I fought for you for and I was like oh my God and we did I did get a free pack of cigarettes out of it because this the guy behind the counter was like oh my god I gotta end this I gotta get these people out of here um but yeah so I definitely get people that talk to me some sort of way and um and I'm and even sometimes I'm like you know my hair is blue like I work in kind of an edgy part of Houston so when people come at me a certain way I'm like am I not showing who I am enough like how more obvious do I need to be uh I was like I was like I know I'm a white woman but come on man like that's yeah that's let's look for some context clues here yeah like I I just I watched a video like a little skid or a little reel on Instagram and the guy goes so someone commented goes I'm white but I'm non-practicing white based on I was like I think that that was the funniest thing I ever read I've I think it was like like white chicken and white white it was like it was one of those really bad cooking videos she's like yeah non practicing white I'm not that white yeah yes exactly yeah so you're like you're white non practicing white and Jason I know hysterical yeah yeah um even even when Alex and I so we had eloped and and then the next year we had a wedding like in the church and when we went met with the priest he was like we're sitting there and he's just like okay we're we're going over everything and he's like something to the effect of like how do you feel about being in an interracial relationship my husband's Puerto Rican yeah I'm like we're not yeah and he looked at us and he was like yes like yes you are like no I don't think so I mean and I mean you see me and he's you know like closer to Agnes's complexion and I'm just like but we're not and he's just like no but like you are yeah yeah yeah yeah to me I don't I mean clearly there's a difference but I never like I just never consider it because my whole family is a mixture of all of these colors yeah and and I'm like but we're not interracial like I mean because in my head I'm like but he's he's Puerto Rican and non-Puertorican so it's like the same you know exactly yeah you're like spoiler alert yeah yeah yeah yeah and I was like I don't know we don't like we never thought about it we don't care yeah yeah like it's not really a thing yeah but I had never had someone until that priest like and and mind you we had already been together for now I don't know eight years nine years at that point a hundred years a hundred a hundred and fifty you know and so like to have somebody just say it was like wait what us yeah yeah this is not day two that we're new here we're yeah to some people it's always a thing and I mean Agnes and I have known each other since the third grade our elementary school was not very diverse.

SPEAKER_05 1:44:41

So what I think maybe there was you and like one other person in the school maybe well don't cut my brother my little brother so there's two there's two of us and then like I mean by the time we graduated elementary school but yeah by the time we graduated elementary school it was maybe like 10 of us yeah but I mean they moved into the neighborhood and every old Italian neighborhood and I don't think that a lot of people in our grade in our class maybe had an issue for for lack of a better word with people who were not white.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:18

Yeah but but like me and her just gravitated towards each other.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:23

Yeah the color of her skin just never done like you know like I was nice so there was that color but like but it her color didn't matter you know I think it was pretty much so funny story uh oh so this is an old Italian neighborhood it was Gotti territory at one point so my mother milk white blue eyes looked white well she was half Irish but she considered herself black then it's me and then my little brother who's a little bit who's lighter than I am so he's in between. But not by much and then you it depends on the time time of the year. Okay Carroll Gardens Brooklyn he I don't say sometimes he gets he gets a little tanner in the dark you know anywho um and we first moved in one summer that summer and there was like the members only club with the old guys playing bocce ball and they would just stare at us like they didn't know how to take us finally because my mother got really tired of it because she was a little loose um her mother goes you know what she goes to buzz you know all these people can bleed just like anyone else can after that they loved us we would just all like it was like oh okay they're family now like I was like where the hell are we because from growing up in the middle of Manhattan Carnegie Mews to Brooklyn I'm like oh you know I was like Brooklyn um not just Brooklyn they're looking down on me while I'm like ew a very non-diverse part of Brooklyn at that time the same families lived there for generations and generations and generations I think the same two families own like most the neighborhood probably and then you had me and my family all the way at the end um there was a point to that story but I don't remember it I I don't know I wouldn't my internet connection is really bad so I think I've heard about half of this whole recording.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:35

You'll just have to listen to the playback yeah that scares her um what scares me see I would froze you guys want to froze it again so I I said you'll have to listen to the playback but that scares you oh oh that does scare me yeah you never ask your questions I have a question okay okay if you could have any set of animal legs what would they be it's so funny I think you would ask this to someone else and I thought about it already but you two love us yeah I really I really binge watched you or binge um it's a it's still a little strange seeing your physical faces but um I would she's like this is not what I pictured oh no no but it's just I'm like oh wow it matches up but anyway it's not worse at least yeah no no no no but uh I think I'd be a frog I really think I I would really like the ability to jump high like that I don't know I think that that would be super chill and um that would be cool actually because I'm I'm actually really short um I'm maybe five one um so okay yeah you too but uh so I've always been like oh I wonder what it's like up there for lack of a better phrase you know and I hate always having to get a stupid stool for everything and I can't put any and sometimes my husband will be like oh babe can you grab that and he's like no I'm sitting down doing something I was like no I literally cannot reach it and I literally need need it I'm not trying to like be a bitch here. Um I think it might be cool to have frog I don't know to hop.

SPEAKER_05 1:49:24

I don't know I think yeah so um I love that I think oh I gotta be a frog yeah I know like my pipe dream when I buy when I build my own house I want to make the counters just a little bit shorter than standard yes yeah I mean nothing crazy low but I want to be able to cook comfortably I know everything's like up here and I'm like I please yeah yeah am I crazy I'm not that I'm not that much taller I'm like almost five four and and I'm like I wish the counters were a little bit higher what's wrong with the bottom well your torso might be a little bit longer yeah my sh my shoulders really aren't so but like your torso to your leg ratios you know what you know you might be a little bit you know just you know longer leg short torso I don't know okay but but like my head and my feet are still not the bottom but so maybe like you know your My shoulders aren't lower or higher. But maybe like the waist It's higher proportional than my weights might be and the table that the counter might just hit at the right spot.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:32

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:32

Because it's because like if I go to the table to cook to cut or to it, it feels too low. So I have to go to the counter, and then I'm like, I wish the counter was just a little bit higher. I don't know. Okay, we're going crazy.

SPEAKER_05 1:50:42

You're just a weird one. Yeah, we're normal.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:47

I will say my torso is smaller than my my legs are longer than my torso. So it doesn't happen. It doesn't matter which sink it is anywhere, but when I wash my hands, I get water all over like all over like my stomach area.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:02

My stomach, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:03

Yeah. And I remember I was, it was like Thanksgiving or some holiday. And um the general rule in the family is since I don't cook, I clean. Because Lord, no one really wants to eat what I cook anyway. But uh, so here I was cleaning up, and then my husband's grandmother, and I didn't quite understand it because she said it in Spanish first, and I was like, Oh god, what'd she say? And then my mother-in-law is like, Oh, your top is all wet. And I was like, Oh my god, I am soaking wet from doing these dishes without an apron on. So here and I came over to like sit and have coffee for Christmas, thinking I look so cute. And my husband's grandmother's meanwhile, like, oh my god, like change your shirt. You are softening wet. Like, like, please, yes, put on a blanket or something.

SPEAKER_05 1:51:41

Yeah. Um, okay, so I just hit like, okay, in 45 years, I never thought about wearing an apron while I did dishes. I feel so stupid. I was like, I would just like do dishes like this, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you so much for putting that in my head. I feel like an ass.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:03

Yeah. Oh man.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:04

You learn sometimes to take someone else.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:07

Yeah. And you learn how to wear an apron when you're when you cut, especially short hair. Because when you get that those short hairs in your clothes, they're with you all day.

SPEAKER_05 1:52:17

Yeah, I can imagine.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:18

So I wear a lot of apron, I wear a lot of aprons, different avenues of my life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:52:24

Yeah. I just feel really stupid right now. I was still like, Agnes, how do you not get this?

SPEAKER_00 1:52:29

And we want to thank Melissa for hanging out with us today and having this conversation. This has been a lot of fun. And please tell everyone and anyone where they can find you and your books and anything else that you want to plug.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:51

Okay, awesome. Um, so buying direct from me is always the best. You can go to melissaallgood.com. Um, I'm on Instagram a lot, so you can also DM me at Mel Allgood Author. That's just the first three letters of my name. So Mel Allgood Author on IG. And um, sometimes I do TikToks, but mostly that's about hair. But um, yeah, I mean, I I do a lot of local events here in the Houston area. So if you guys are over in Houston, I'd love to have you guys come by. Um, but yeah, uh but yeah, I don't really have too much to plug per se, um, other than if everyone can send me good vibes that I get through this semester and and somehow finish writing this book. Because what I didn't tell you guys is when I first wrote this sci-fi series, I had plotted it out. And then when I was writing the second book, I realized a character that I wanted to kill wasn't like I couldn't kill her. So I had to keep her alive. So the third book I had to completely rewrite, and I was like, perfect. I'm literally starting school, restarting school at 40 years old, and now I gotta rewrite an entire book. Um, so please send me well wishes on that.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:00

What are you studying?

SPEAKER_01 1:54:02

So I am um gonna finish my associates in cosmetology so that I can teach cosmetology at a uh community college level.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:09

Oh, that's nice.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:10

Yeah, because I I like I tell my clients at the salon, I so look forward to when I retire from working behind the chair at the salon to sitting. I look forward to sitting because I stand all day. There are some newer hairdressers that have stools and yada yada, but I still I'm I stand all day.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:28

Yeah, I can't imagine.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:29

Yeah. But and also I'm since I'm so short, I have a lot of clients. I have, I don't know why it is, but I have a lot of clients that are over six feet tall. So if I was in a stool, I wouldn't be able to cut their hair. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:54:40

Well, you know, everything in Texas is bigger, so true.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:43

It is like bigger, yeah. Listen, I I just I just finished my degrees in 2018.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:49

So okay, oh good lord, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:51

Okay, you know, it's not that long ago, so yeah, I have faith in you. And oh thank you, thank you. Yeah, um, but we'll be sending you positive vibes either way.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:59

Yeah, but uh yeah, just visit me online. Um we'll put everything in the show notes, make it easy.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:06

C-Click.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:07

Yeah, but and anyone that wants to talk about lost as well, totally welcome in the DMs. Although if anyone wants to date me, that's really off the table. So I and I know I'm I know that I'm so magnanimous that I'm sure there will be suitors lining up.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:22

But yeah, just just gotta have your stick ready, okay? Yes, exactly, exactly because it'll perform double duty.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:28

Yes. But yeah, I just want to thank you, ladies, so much, and I'm so glad I got to meet with you ladies. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:35

Thank you again. And we remind everybody who is listening, thank you for listening. Drink responsibly, don't drink and drive. And until next time, I'm Lisa. I'm I'm Agnes. We're out of here. See you there. Bye.